Dundee v Motherwell PSCup 14/8/21

[Kmcalpin]

I wasn't at today's game, but the result came as no surprise to me. It was always going to be a hard game especially so as we are work in progress. Add to that the enforced absences of O'Donnell and Van Veen and we had a mountain to climb at 3pm. I also get the new players bedding in and others returning from long term injury. Maybe some ill advised tactical tinkering too?

I'll cut the manager some slack and am not panicking yet. If we get to the end of the month without picking up another point but make 3 good signings then I'll be happy. We do have to see evidence of some progress though.

[underboyleheating]

14 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

…but make 3 good signings then I'll be happy.

Has the the manager indicated that he/we are making any more signings? I’m not up to speed, however, I assumed we were all but done. 

[mfc]

4 minutes ago, underboyleheating said:

Has the the manager indicated that he/we are making any more signings? I’m not up to speed, however, I assumed we were all but done. 

He said in the build up to this game that he's happy with what we have but he's still looking to add to the squad.we can't afford anymore jersey fillers,it has to be atleast a couple that are going to make a difference.

[underboyleheating]

5 minutes ago, mfc said:

He said in the build up to this game that he's happy with what we have but he's still looking to add to the squad.we can't afford anymore jersey fillers,it has to be atleast a couple that are going to make a difference.

Have we got the wage budget to bring in 2/3 more players?

[mfc]

1 minute ago, underboyleheating said:

Have we got the wage budget to bring in 2/3 more players?

No idea mate,I hope so as that performance yesterday shows that were short of quality in a couple of areas.

[texanwellfan]

From the post match Twitter. ““We weren’t good enough today. We need to be better all over the pitch.” I think pretty much everyone on here was saying that BEFORE the match. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

2 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

From the post match Twitter. ““We weren’t good enough today. We need to be better all over the pitch.” I think pretty much everyone on here was saying that BEFORE the match. 

He does seem to say that every week 

 

[joewarkfanclub]

14 hours ago, MJC_mkII said:

Saw a few reports of that on twitter, though some appear to be saying that it was down to the stewards. Who knows though, but not good to hear either way.

No stewards involved when they started throwing glass bottles at Dundee fans as they came off their bus. I dont like to see heavy handed stewarding as it is entirely counter productive to improving the matchday experience. But we cant ignore the fact that we appear to have a small section of arseholes within our support intent on causing trouble.

[Welldaft Mk1]

9 hours ago, mfc said:

He said in the build up to this game that he's happy with what we have but he's still looking to add to the squad.we can't afford anymore jersey fillers,it has to be atleast a couple that are going to make a difference.

I saw a recent response (last week) from Flow on Twitter we were looking to add to the squad. I have seen rumours re Robbie Gott and a couple of attackers inc Marc McNulty.  Although the latter has now joined United. 

That would suggest to me we are still looking at midfield and up front. Ideally we need two starters and not squad fillers. Especially true  in midfield. Slattery and OHara may do and Donnelly may come good but we are desperately weak in there at the moment.

Up front Watt, Van Veen may do and Shields and Lawless may come good but that is about it. I have seen very little of Woolery to suggest he has what it takes. Early days but he has had a few games to “tear teams apart” and has not looked like doing so. Maybe the standard up here is better than he or the Manager thought. 

For me the players I would see as starters in the current squad would be Kelly, SODs, Ojala / Lamie, Slattery, OHara, Van Veen, Watt. 

Jury out on Lawless, Carroll, Shields, Mugabi and Lamie tbh. McGinley seems to have fallen behind Carroll for the time being. But not sure Carroll is doing enough to justify that !

 

 

[mfc]

We may get away with playing 433 at home for most games but yesterday showed yet again that we can't play that system away from home.theres not one area of the team that looks comfortable in how we're trying to play,the defence is horrifically exposed at all times,I can't believe the amount of crosses we let into the box,there's no attempt to even close down,you would think we had quality centre halfs that could deal with everything that comes there way,your told even at boys club level that stop the cross you stop the goal but this seems to be a tactic of ours just not to bother and it's bit us on the arse this season more than once.the midfield is all very rigid,it's three players that basically play around the half way line,the offer nothing defensively or in an attacking sense,I'm assuming that's down to the manager as you would think players would be busting a gut to get forward and it's vital in the formation we play.for as well as we did against hibs,the movement of there front three caused us all kinds of problems because they interchange really well,one minute murphy would be wide the next he would be central,same goes for boyle and then nisbet would drift in a dangerous area,where our three look like there told,your there,your there and your there and we're just hoping something happens,everything is far to rigid in our play and we're going to be far to easy to play against especially away from home.i think we have enough good players to give us a decent season but I just don't see it happening if we keep going with the tactics we're currently using,there's definite tweaks needing done going forward.

[wellsince75]

1 hour ago, mfc said:

We may get away with playing 433 at home for most games but yesterday showed yet again that we can't play that system away from home.theres not one area of the team that looks comfortable in how we're trying to play,the defence is horrifically exposed at all times,I can't believe the amount of crosses we let into the box,there's no attempt to even close down,you would think we had quality centre halfs that could deal with everything that comes there way,your told even at boys club level that stop the cross you stop the goal but this seems to be a tactic of ours just not to bother and it's bit us on the arse this season more than once.the midfield is all very rigid,it's three players that basically play around the half way line,the offer nothing defensively or in an attacking sense,I'm assuming that's down to the manager as you would think players would be busting a gut to get forward and it's vital in the formation we play.for as well as we did against hibs,the movement of there front three caused us all kinds of problems because they interchange really well,one minute murphy would be wide the next he would be central,same goes for boyle and then nisbet would drift in a dangerous area,where our three look like there told,your there,your there and your there and we're just hoping something happens,everything is far to rigid in our play and we're going to be far to easy to play against especially away from home.i think we have enough good players to give us a decent season but I just don't see it happening if we keep going with the tactics we're currently using,there's definite tweaks needing done going forward.

I agree with this - we could easily have switched to a 3-5-2 yesterday or god forbid go to a 4-4-2.  Our persistence to play the same system and have the same issues doesn't enhance my confidence we know what we're doing.  

Also to have dropped Watt who was the one bright spot from the previous game was a joke. (albeit I want to see him played deeper) 

[mfc]

13 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

I agree with this - we could easily have switched to a 3-5-2 yesterday or god forbid go to a 4-4-2.  Our persistence to play the same system and have the same issues doesn't enhance my confidence we know what we're doing.  

Also to have dropped Watt who was the one bright spot from the previous game was a joke. (albeit I want to see him played deeper) 

As things stand I think 352 would suit us best for what we have,I would gladly leave out an attacker for another defender if it meant getting more cohesion in our play.would having three centre halfs playing stop the full backs being exposed and allow them to be more of an attacking threat and at the same time would the midfield be less timid knowing there's three centre halfs behind them,I certainly wouldn't be against giving it a go.if we go to livingston next week using the same system and put in another performance like yesterday then like you I'll be losing confidence that we know what we're doing.

[Welldaft Mk1]

At least we did not lose to a team in the division below !

That said when we lose in the cup. It is usually followed by top seeds tumbling. Every single time.

 

[MJC]

15 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

At least we did not lose to a team in the division below !

That said when we lose in the cup. It is usually followed by top seeds tumbling. Every single time.

 

Our Cup record against top flight teams is utterly deplorable.

With the obvious exception of the 2017/2018 season we have won just once in a knockout tie against a fellow top flight side since the 2011 SCSF and that was three years ago against Livingston in the League Cup last 16.

That is nothing short of disgraceful especially when you consider that we have only been paired with one of the Old Firm on three occasions in that time, again not counting 2017/18 with that.

 

[Visitor]

4 hours ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I saw a recent response (last week) from Flow on Twitter we were looking to add to the squad. I have seen rumours re Robbie Gott and a couple of attackers inc Marc McNulty.  Although the latter has now joined United. 

That would suggest to me we are still looking at midfield and up front. Ideally we need two starters and not squad fillers. Especially true  in midfield. Slattery and OHara may do and Donnelly may come good but we are desperately weak in there at the moment.

Up front Watt, Van Veen may do and Shields and Lawless may come good but that is about it. I have seen very little of Woolery to suggest he has what it takes. Early days but he has had a few games to “tear teams apart” and has not looked like doing so. Maybe the standard up here is better than he or the Manager thought. 

For me the players I would see as starters in the current squad would be Kelly, SODs, Ojala / Lamie, Slattery, OHara, Van Veen, Watt. 

Jury out on Lawless, Carroll, Shields, Mugabi and Lamie tbh. McGinley seems to have fallen behind Carroll for the time being. But not sure Carroll is doing enough to justify that !

 

 

Jurys not out for me on Carroll, Lawless both aren't good enough.

[underboyleheating]

I’m currently watching the Celtic, Hearts game and to say that I’m fearing meeting Celtic is an understatement. Their pace upfront is frightening. How It’s still 0-0 I’ll never know. 

[dennyc]

56 minutes ago, underboyleheating said:

I’m currently watching the Celtic, Hearts game and to say that I’m fearing meeting Celtic is an understatement. Their pace upfront is frightening. How It’s still 0-0 I’ll never know. 

How is Starfeld playing. Games I have seen he looks like the new Raphael. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

They had 21 shots at goal first half and 83% possession!! 

Hearts were very lucky to be only 2-0 down. Celtic could easily have been 6 or 7 up at HT.

Slowed in 2nd half and yes Starfelt looks a bit dodgy.

But as UBH says I fear playing them if they are in that mood 1st half. Even though I know our defense and midfield would cope admirably !

[MJC]

1 hour ago, underboyleheating said:

I’m currently watching the Celtic, Hearts game and to say that I’m fearing meeting Celtic is an understatement. Their pace upfront is frightening. How It’s still 0-0 I’ll never know. 

It’s safe to say that if the likes of Hibs, Dundee and Airdrie(!) can exploit our defensive weaknesses with relative ease then Celtic will be capable of taking anything between five and ten goals off us, it just depends on how many they want to score. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 hour ago, underboyleheating said:

I’m currently watching the Celtic, Hearts game and to say that I’m fearing meeting Celtic is an understatement. Their pace upfront is frightening. How It’s still 0-0 I’ll never know. 

Mate

Ange is a very very good coach he will take Celtic to another level. As SPFL is finding out now. As Motherwell will find out. 

[underboyleheating]

How the Celtic game finished 3-2 is remarkable. However, it does show Celtic can still be breached at the back on the counter. 

[underboyleheating]

34 minutes ago, dennyc said:

How is Starfeld playing. Games I have seen he looks like the new Raphael. 

Starfeld  is the weak link. The one poor performer for Celtic in my opinion. 

[MJC]

9 hours ago, underboyleheating said:

Starfeld  is the weak link. The one poor performer for Celtic in my opinion. 

I’m surprised you can see that through the amount of smoke you are blowing up Celtic’s arses to be honest. 
 

They are clearly the best side in Scotland just now but if you can watch that game and not see that Taylor, Ralston and Welsh are defensively suspect then there is no hope for you. 
 

As I said Celtic look good just now but your last few posts about them on here make them sound like 1970 Brazil.

[Yodo]

2 hours ago, underboyleheating said:

Starfeld  is the weak link. The one poor performer for Celtic in my opinion. 

Thought I wis in Kerrydale Street by mistake then 

[grizzlyg]

I thought this was a well fans forum