Motherwell v Dundee 28/08/21

[The African]

Got to be happy with the three points. As long as we don't start to believe that we are the finished article, and there is little chance of that happening if the squad read this forum, then it is obviously better to be picking up points. This time last season, you would not ace seen us getting much after going down to ten men. We also don't seem to be gifting so many penalties. Small things, but positives non the less. Hopefully the fact that we are not at the wrong end of the table will make it slightly easier for the new players to find their feet Of course, we could just be having a good run early on in the season, with the rub of the green going our way, but at least we are picking up points when we have the chance.. There will no doubt be times in the season when this changes and our good play goes unrewarded. Such is football, and such is life.

[Benson]

7 hours ago, davkel said:

Serious question....does anyone know what style of play we are trying to implement ?? ...  

My mate was watching us for Ross County today and we had a long conversation about what we are trying to do and we can’t work it out..

The defenders we have cannot play out from the back and resort to punts up the park

The midfield today were totally missing ...strange to come on here and see people saying that Slattery was good and O’Hara had a good game ..really !!... both were a mile off the pace...in fact the guy sitting next to me said he thought Slattery must have had a good night out last night ..he was that poor.

The front 3 are so isolated week in week out ....nobody links anything from midfield to front ...

One other point we talked about was how bad we were at the basics ...first touch was a joke from quite a few and how many players looked at least a yard off the pace compared to the Dundee guys..

But .....after saying all that , we won 1-0 ....work that one out ....it’s a funny old game 

Pretty much sums up how I felt 

[GawnUpBy?]

Wasn’t pretty to say the least, but the three points are in the bag. The league table shows it’s been a solid start to the season too! With games coming up against Aberdeen and Rangers at Ibrox it was a much needed 3 points.

Goss impressed when he came on and KVV showed some really nice touches too. It’s a no brainer for me who leads the line between him and Watt, the Dutchman just seems to ooze class. 

I wouldn’t be against going with a diamond midfield in the future with him and Watt partnering each other up top. 

Even though it was a terrible performance, it was great to see the full East Stand up on their feet, singing and cheering at the end, everybody absolutely buzzing to be back. 

 

[Yorkyred]

48 minutes ago, GawnUpBy? said:

Wasn’t pretty to say the least, but the three points are in the bag. The league table shows it’s been a solid start to the season too! With games coming up against Aberdeen and Rangers at Ibrox it was a much needed 3 points.

Goss impressed when he came on and KVV showed some really nice touches too. It’s a no brainer for me who leads the line between him and Watt, the Dutchman just seems to ooze class. 

I wouldn’t be against going with a diamond midfield in the future with him and Watt partnering each other up top. 

Even though it was a terrible performance, it was great to see the full East Stand up on their feet, singing and cheering at the end, everybody absolutely buzzing to be back. 

 

A fit Van Veen is going to be a pleasure to watch for sure, technically he’s at a higher level than anyone else bar maybe Watt who also puts in the workrate, we certainly need to find a way of fitting them both into the starting 11 with Watt sitting slightly deeper maybe.

[Bart Verheul]

10 hours ago, davkel said:

 

Serious question....does anyone know what style of play we are trying to implement ?? ...  

My mate was watching us for Ross County today and we had a long conversation about what we are trying to do and we can’t work it out..

 

That’s surely a good thing, because if they have no idea what we are trying to do then they’ll have no idea how to stop us doing whatever it is we are doing.

Is it as good to watch as McCalls team with Ojaama, Higdon etc - No

Its not as entertaining as Bowman and Louis smashing their way to 2 cup finals but since we’ve adopted this “style of play” we’ve won 7pts out of 9 in the league which I can live with in the short to medium term

 

[Welldaft Mk1]

9 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Thats it for me.

At the moment, we don't have a complete squad to choose from, with probably another bodies to come in before Tuesday night.  Our 2 right backs are injured and other players like Van Veen, Shields, Donnelly, O'Hara and Grimshaw are still recovering or night fully fit. New players are still settling in and yet to gel.

We ground out the win today. Not great football to entertain us but we did show some really nice attacking moves in flashes.  I thought that Kelly, Lamie, Ojala, Slattery and Watt were our best players. Goss although not matchfit looks to be useful. We haven't yet got the midfield balance right but I'd say that Grimshaw and O'Hara don't look comfortable in the same midfield. The strikers didn't gel, and although Watt played very well, he's not an out and out striker, but had to play in that role because of circumstances. 

As to the game itself, Dundee must consider themselves unlucky not to take a point but although they had loads of possession they were toothless up front and lacked creativity, especially after Adam retired. The game hinged on a handful of incidents - when Dundee hit the bar; Adam's injury - they weren't the same after he went off; Watt's goal; and Carroll's red card.  For the first 20 minutes or so Dundee dominated and whether it was down to our midfielders playing poorly or being outnumbered I don't know. They clearly saw Mugabi as being our weak link as they tried to pressurise him early doors. We saw the game out well although I don't like to see us defend so narrowly.

I thought that Willie Collum was very inconsistent and let Dundee players off for a series of bookable offences and it was always odds on he'd cards one of our lads first. When Van Veen's name went into the book you just knew that more would follow. I haven't seen Carroll's challenge yet but will do so later. Certainly Collum acted straight away without even taking time to think so you'd hope he had a close up and clear view of the incident. 

Great to be back at Fir Park today catching up with old friends and meeting new ones like Yorkyred.      

A good summation Dave. Pretty much how I saw the game go. 

A lot of people bemoaning performance and style. And it is hard to disagree. Bar a couple of 5-10 minutes spells we let Dundee dominate and if that had been a better team as in a top 6 team we would not have had the wherewithal to come away with any points. 

What I will say is that this time last year we were actually playing decent football and dominating games and possession and LOSING. After 6 games we had 2 points. If I think back to Ross C and even Hamilton and United at home - with GA we simply don’t lose those games. Might not be pretty but I will give him credit where it is due. He has made us more difficult to beat. How many times would we have lost an equalising goals after going down to 10 men. Bar a couple of opportunities we held out today quite comfortably. 

We have played teams - all of which have had a much more settled look to their match day teams. Hibs and St Johnstone especially were  pretty much playing the same sides as last season. 

We have key players missing, players coming back from long term injury and players getting their fitness up. Of the new players I think Kelly (new signing) Slattery, Ojala, Van Veen will prove to be worthwhile additions. Shields may come good as too early to write off. For me Amaluzor and Woolery added very little. Fit guys with pace but at the moment little end product. I want so much for Woolery to be like a Johnson or Aryibi. But he is looking more like a beefed up Seedorf. He needs to start delivering as so far he is not showing himself to be a 1st team option. 

Good to see Watt hit 3 league goals in a row. Superbly gifted player who gives his all. All that was missing was more goals.

I saw some criticism of Slattery. I must admit this baffled me. He maybe did not set the heather on fire yesterday, but I thought how composed he is on the ball. I think we have won a watch with him. He will get better once his match day fitness improves. 

With the Norwegian CB and a decent forward option  I think we have a squad to compete middle of the table. Would not say no to Roberts returning but I wonder if Hearts would release him to a competitor. Maybe on loan so he does not play against them. But that is just supposition. 

All in all an excellent 3 points as we head into International break. Always good to get a win ahead of 2 week break. 

[johnstone]

As much as it was a tough watch at times I didn’t think Dundee had that many clear cut chances for all their approach play. Our defence looked solid, something that has been an issue for us last season.

Also I think once we have a fully fit squad we actually now have a very decent first 11 and sone good options from the bench.

4 games in and all of them have been very close, can’t really grumble to be honest.

[Ya Bezzer!]

9 hours ago, mfc said:

Having seen the tackle back,there's one of the camera angles that it does look to be a poor challenge by carroll but there's no way collum could have seen it as there was atleast three players between him and the incident,I was in the hunter and pretty much in line with the linesman who never put his flag up and it's not like the dundee players were going mad at the tackle so fuck knows what collum made his decision on.hes a shocker of a referee that does seem to like being the centre of attention in every game he's involved in.

It looked a bit high to me on the replays.  If you go over the ankle I think you are asking for trouble.

I think it was at least borderline so it's not something I'm going to get hugely excited about either way, especially since it didn't effect the result.

[GazzyB]

A little surprised at the criticism of Amaluzor, I thought he did really well last week vs Livi and was pretty decent again yesterday. He has offered more than the more experienced Woollery on the other side, that's for sure.

[mfc]

9 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

A little surprised at the criticism of Amaluzor, I thought he did really well last week vs Livi and was pretty decent again yesterday. He has offered more than the more experienced Woollery on the other side, that's for sure.

I agree with that,my only real criticism of him yesterday was he was wanting to long on the ball at times but that could just be down to playing at a higher level and he isn't going to get the time hes used to,hopefully that changes as he finds his feet,he's a better option than seedorf was I would say.

[SteelmaninOZ]

Like this….

 

[grizzlyg]

Wasn't pretty to watch but 3pts is the main thing. Ojala looks good but distribution needs improving.  Goss I think will be a good addition alongside Slattery and O'Hara , wide players concerns me as I am yet to be impressed by Woolery and Amaluzor,  will give them time though.

['WellMagic!]

Happy with the points but that was a hard watch yesterday. 

Surprised to see people give O'Hara and Slattery praise, I thought they were both miles off it. I'm sure Slattery will turn out to be a solid acquisition, but he was all over the shop yesterday.

Aside from the obvious Tony Watt, I thought Ojala was our best player (apart from his honking distribution). Defensively he was really solid and won everything in the air. 

I'm not one for giving players pelters too early, but I'm not confident about Woolery, he's giving me major Seedorf vibes and just doesn't seem capable, more than happy to be proven wrong of course.

Still on the fence about GA, but it's good seeing a manager with a bit of passion.

[steelboy]

Ojala was superb yesterday. I was worried about him after watching him on the streams but yesterday he was dominant in every contest and his positioning and reading of the game showed why he's captained his country. 

It wasn't the best performance yesterday but as I've said before I don't think people appreciate how much rot had set in under Robinson. We are still rebuilding and hopefully with another couple of signings and work in the training pitch we will use the ball better. 

[texanwellfan]

4 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

It looked a bit high to me on the replays.  If you go over the ankle I think you are asking for trouble.

I think it was at least borderline so it's not something I'm going to get hugely excited about either way, especially since it didn't effect the result.

I can’t recall 100% but I think both feet were off the ground and literally went flying in. Once you do that I think ref is going to deem it out of control and issue a red. There some comments about the refs line of sight but hid he sees both feet off the ground that’s probably enough to make him pull the red card regardless of what else happens. 

[steelboy]

30 minutes ago, 'WellMagic! said:

 

I'm not one for giving players pelters too early, but I'm not confident about Woolery, he's giving me major Seedorf vibes and just doesn't seem capable, more than happy to be proven wrong of course.

He's a lot better than Seedorf.

Our attacking play hasn't clicked yet but we are still scoring and making chances.

[wellsince75]

4 hours ago, GazzyB said:

A little surprised at the criticism of Amaluzor, I thought he did really well last week vs Livi and was pretty decent again yesterday. He has offered more than the more experienced Woollery on the other side, that's for sure.

Amaluzor reminds me of a slight upgrade on Seedorf. He has pace and good touch but still to prove to be the finished article. He's often the wrong side of a player and doesn't link play particularly well.   Too early to say for sure.

That said I'd put him in the team before Woolery - who may be wasted out wide but doesn't look a goal scorer either so not sure what the point of having him is. 
 

[0Neils40yarder]

Great to get the 3 points but that style of fitba won't get the fans returning game after game, as it was absolutely horrific viewing. 

 

On paper, I think we have a reasonably good squad, certainly good enough to compete with shite like Dundee, but I think the formation we continue to play is hindering us.

 

Watt is worth his weight in gold for us, he will never be a 20goals a season man, or even 15, but his work rate and his game intelligence is excellent...I'd have loved to have seen him getting more time with Van Veen, as I fear that Justin and Woolery will never do. Lamie and Ojala are doing the basics right and in Kelly we have a great keeper at our level.

 

The midfield is still disjointed, I thought slattery showed glimpses of his talent and hopefully Goss can add to that as I believe that Grimshaw is never a starter for us in any position.

[Yorkyred]

1 minute ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Great to get the 3 points but that style of fitba won't get the fans returning game after game, as it was absolutely horrific viewing. 

 

On paper, I think we have a reasonably good squad, certainly good enough to compete with shite like Dundee, but I think the formation we continue to play is hindering us.

 

Watt is worth his weight in gold for us, he will never be a 20goals a season man, or even 15, but his work rate and his game intelligence is excellent...I'd have loved to have seen him getting more time with Van Veen, as I fear that Justin and Woolery will never do. Lamie and Ojala are doing the basics right and in Kelly we have a great keeper at our level.

 

The midfield is still disjointed, I thought slattery showed glimpses of his talent and hopefully Goss can add to that as I believe that Grimshaw is never a starter for us in any position.

I love his attitude and work rate but sadly the quality from him is generally below what you would expect at this level, to be fair though he’s not the only one. I would love to see more technically proficient players in the starting eleven but I guess we either can’t afford them, or they are not willing to join us. When I started watching Motherwell we had Scot McDonald, he had his weaknesses but he was head and shoulders above many since ability wise. Maybe regardless of who is in charge this is now the norm, I hope not because it’s more about speed and strength than ability just now in my opinion. 

[Happy Dosser]

We didn't deserve to lose against The Leithers and didn't  deserve to win yesterday so I suppose that evens things out even in the short term but my main concern is, as usual, our  dysfunctional midfield.  The balance is all wrong  yet I have this pathetically optimistic notion that a simple change of formation or inclusion of just one more signing will flick the magic switch and unleash  the new, dynamic C&A engine-room beast (these mushrooms are lovely, btw). I think Slattery looks a reasonable acquisition and I suspect Goss has some creativity too but where is our Allan Campbell-style perpetual motion replacement?

Like many others, I see Watt's perfect position as playing just behind two forwards and threading passes through to them but this rather obvious ploy seems unattractive to the management, but I've read "Inverting The Pyramid" twice and know what I'm talking about .

Van Veen looks a real pest in a good way but  Amaluzor and Woolery resemble the fast-but-no-football-intelligence types we've signed before on several occasions who don't know when/where to run and can't cross.  Maybe the latter would be better played more centrally as a last resort, since he's not so bad in the air.

Final Grate Thott: nice to play crap and win, innit?

Bring on The Mutton Molesters.....

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Great to get the 3 points but that style of fitba won't get the fans returning game after game, as it was absolutely horrific viewing.

Would they return though if we emulated St Johnstone and earned a top 6 finish and had a realistic chance of winning 2cups? I hear what you say but there aren't many Saints fans complaining about lack of entertainment. 

[0Neils40yarder]

I don't know if they would or not, but it's an easy excuse if there is a real lack of entertainment 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

We didn't deserve to lose against The Leithers and didn't  deserve to win yesterday

Why did we not deserve to win,we kept a clean sheet, Dundee had one decent chance and never took it, they had lots of possession after that and went nowhere, Kelly never had another serious save to make. 

We also had one decent chance and we took it went 1-0 up and defended well to see the game out, football is a simple game you score more goals than your opponents you deserve to win 

[Happy Dosser]

10 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Why did we not deserve to win,we kept a clean sheet, Dundee had one decent chance and never took it, they had lots of possession after that and went nowhere, Kelly never had another serious save to make. 

We also had one decent chance and we took it went 1-0 up and defended well to see the game out, football is a simple game you score more goals than your opponents you deserve to win 

As others have said, I  would not enjoy a season  of similar performances, irrespective of the result.  Our passing generally was very poor, there was a large distance between our uncreative midfield and  forwards and so our game was largely disjointed and unproductive.  We won because of one good Carroll  delivery and an inspired header from Watt.  In short, we  got lucky.

At least Dundee tried to pass their way forward, although it was obvious they didn't have the skill to successfully play that way, and were largely toothless up  front. Their goalie tried three times to pass out to left midfield and only succeeded in giving us a throw-in each time.  However,  if the crossbar shot had gone in and Adam not been crocked, I suspect things might have been different.

I didn't enjoy Robinson's hoofball and I didn't enjoy yesterday much.  Feel free to be happy about our win but a season of such performances would try even my almost 60 years of  patience. The only consolation is that I don't think yesterday's line-up will  be long lasting.  If van Veen can keep fit, Watt can be employed productively and the manager  sorts out the midfield , things should improve quickly.

[ropy]

23 minutes ago, Happy Dosser said:

As others have said, I  would not enjoy a season  of similar performances, irrespective of the result.  Our passing generally was very poor, there was a large distance between our uncreative midfield and  forwards and so our game was largely disjointed and unproductive.  We won because of one good Carroll  delivery and an inspired header from Watt.  In short, we  got lucky.

At least Dundee tried to pass their way forward, although it was obvious they didn't have the skill to successfully play that way, and were largely toothless up  front. Their goalie tried three times to pass out to left midfield and only succeeded in giving us a throw-in each time.  However,  if the crossbar shot had gone in and Adam not been crocked, I suspect things might have been different.

I didn't enjoy Robinson's hoofball and I didn't enjoy yesterday much.  Feel free to be happy about our win but a season of such performances would try even my almost 60 years of  patience. The only consolation is that I don't think yesterday's line-up will  be long lasting.  If van Veen can keep fit, Watt can be employed productively and the manager  sorts out the midfield , things should improve quickly.

I saw the Rangers highlights, corner came in, big defender managed to jump the highest, and like jo boxers they just got lucky.