Motherwell v St Mirren 27/10/2021

[Kat]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

I think Madden and the POD side lineman deserved a post all to themselves. Totally inconsistent and error strewn. Unfortunately their incompetence had a major influence on the outcome of the game. A number of errors:

* For someone seemingly obsessed with rules, he let off a St Mirren player for booting the ball 40 yards away after play was stopped. If refs aren't going to penalise this indiscretion then its time rules were changed to allow it. 

* Sean Goss was rightly carded for hauling back an opponent who was breaking.  The exact same thing happened to Slattery earlier but no card was produced.

* MacAllister put in a shocking 2 footed challenge on MacGinley right in front of us and near to the linesman. A straight red? No, but then again his name wasn't Carroll. 

* No penalty for Solholm being wrestled to the ground?

The bald fud also had a few other incidents late in the second half I honestly think he was trolling us, O'Donnell went into a 50/50 with Brophy I think, both slid in, Stephen got up first and just as he's about to take the ball Madden gives them a free kick in a dangerous position at the edge of the box. 

Also, Shaugnessy lunged into a challenge anticipating the well player to get the ball but he hits it out the park with no one near him and Madden gives him the throw in lol. 

I never got a clear view of it but Solholm was wrestled to the ground late in the second half as well but that incident was totally omitted from Sportscene. 

I only stay a short distance from Fir Park, if we lose or such I'm generally over it by the time I walk in the front door but last night really annoyed me, I think it more stems from his previous decisions last season against Rangers where he couldn't point to the spot quick enough twice but over looked Campbells stonewaller plus the freebie he gave St Mirren in January in Alexander's first game, can't believe he actually topped that decision. 

 

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

I didn't understand the substitutions at all and they made little impression when they came on. We weren't defending well enough to sit back and took off Woolery who provided an out ball.   Had the game gone on another 10 minutes we would have conceded again.  

I agree with that.

Alexanders subs continue to baffle even more than Robinsons did. The obvious sub was KVV for Shields who had ran himself into the ground.

I did think O'Hara looked much better when he came on than Goss or Slattery and has surely played himself into a start on Sunday?

Similarly, what was the point of the Carroll substitution after St Mirren equalised? Surely not holding out for a point? If that is the case its terribly defeatist.

[texanwellfan]

2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I agree with that.

Alexanders subs continue to baffle even more than Robinsons did. The obvious sub was KVV for Shields who had ran himself into the ground.

I did think O'Hara looked much better when he came on than Goss or Slattery and has surely played himself into a start on Sunday?

Similarly, what was the point of the Carroll substitution after St Mirren equalised? Surely not holding out for a point? If that is the case its terribly defeatist.

I thought Carroll was brought on to try and get 3 points. In the short time he was on the field he managed to get a few good balls into the box. That’s why I’d play him over McGinley. Defense wise I think they are both suspect but you get more from Carroll going forward. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

This is why we love Liam Kelly 

 

https://youtu.be/JTVBhc-QIVk

 

[Happy Dosser]

So many conflicting emotions after last night.  I couldn't believe we went two up (and all down to TW) after a dire first half  but  equally couldn't believe how we blew it after that. It all started with a heavy Mugabi "pass" and a defence which was caught dossing big-style.

I am beginning to think that Alexander, like McGhee, may enjoy stubbornly sticking to  selections and formations just to prove the great unwashed  wrong and himself right. As so many have said, a five-man midfield with Watt and The Flying Dutchman up front would reduce the chances of the opposition running through the  middle at will and could produce more goals if the front two get  some wide service. I felt Shields gradually  grew into the game in the second half but I would have  brought Van Veen on for the last 15 or so.  Is the reason for him not starting a niggly injury or some problem with the  manager?

As for last night's refereeing, I can't improve on Kmacalpin's analysis.   I await some linesman pulling up a Rangers or Celtic goalie for the same "infringement" as Kelly.  Would he/she dare? Naw.  Apart from the possibility of a legitimate humping from The Hens on Sunday, what chance do we have of any major decision going our way in any event? I hear their "penalty" against The Sheep was another of the ghost variety and quite incredible. Even ex-Ger Frosty Foster said so on Sportsound, having watched it ten times or so.

GA's pre- and post-match comments are becoming as excruciating as Robbo's in his final months: deeds, not words, please.

Can't say I'm looking forward to Sunday's match: the usual bad company in the ground and little prospect of success without a major rethink from the manager and some impartial refereeing.

At the moment a radical reform of my sock drawer is looking a more satisfying option.

 

[weeyin]

I'm not sure about "stubbornly sticking to selections" when we've struggled to field the same starting 11 in consecutive games.

If anything, it's a more settled line up we need until the different units get some understanding playing alongside each other.

[joewarkfanclub]

2 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

I thought Carroll was brought on to try and get 3 points. In the short time he was on the field he managed to get a few good balls into the box. That’s why I’d play him over McGinley. Defense wise I think they are both suspect but you get more from Carroll going forward. 

I agree Carroll is much better going forward but I think McGinley is a better defender. Carroll is much better in a 3-5-2, as is SOD.......

[texanwellfan]

Have to keep reminding myself we didn’t get beat. Just feels like it. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

Wee problem solve , does anyone know the value of X

Played Rangers in the League  54 Times Won 0

Played Rangers in the League 55 times Won  X

[joewarkfanclub]

30 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Wee problem solve , does anyone know the value of X

Played Rangers in the League  54 Times Won 0

Played Rangers in the League 55 times Won  X

Does that depend on whether they died or not?

[pretzel]

Probably a really stupid question on my part as I think I already know the answer but do you think clubs get apologies from officials or the SFA when they arse up as bad as that? Not that it makes up for the result in the end. Generally all you usually hear is a manager sometime mention the ref phoned them to apologise, players generally say they just get fobbed off.

After the Stevie O'Reilly Hibs game 8 or 9 years ago (worst officiating performance ever tbh) where he subbed himself off as he knew he had a horror show, he would only officiate one more top flight game before heading down the leagues then disappearing completely. Today the officials seem to escape any sort punishment as Madden gets to enjoy taking charge at Parkhead on Saturday. Its just really frustrating as in 4 of the last 3 games he has been the ref he has made major errors, obviously the penalty incident its rare for a kick to be retaken but I'm sure Madden was the ref when he penalised Carson for taking too long while holding the ball a few seasons up at Dundee.

Game wise I felt we were heading for a dull 0-0 at half time but I was delighted how we started the second half, like the poster says above I have to remind myself we didn't actually get beat.

[Spiderpig]

11 hours ago, pretzel said:

Probably a really stupid question on my part as I think I already know the answer but do you think clubs get apologies from officials or the SFA when they arse up as bad as that?

There is more chance of Motherwell winning the champions league than getting an apology from the SFA, referee's and other officials are answerable to nobody, they could make a James Hunt of it every week and they would still get games. The SFA refuses to accept any criticism of match officials,  so no free speech for any club officials.

The whole set up is a shambles the SFA / SPFL is not fit for purpose and needs a radical overhaul,  the introduction of VAR would be a start as it would put the referee's under closer scrutiny but I won't be holding my breath waiting for that.

 

[steelboy]

I don't get where the McGinley is a better defender than Carroll stuff comes from. Carroll was playing every week when we were keeping clean sheets and finished third in 19/20. He then came back into the team in January and again we had a good run of defensive displays. 

I'm also struggling to think when he would have played in 3-5-2 for us. 

[Kmcalpin]

14 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

There is more chance of Motherwell winning the champions league than getting an apology from the SFA, referee's and other officials are answerable to nobody, they could make a James Hunt of it every week and they would still get games. The SFA refuses to accept any criticism of match officials,  so no free speech for any club officials.

The whole set up is a shambles the SFA / SPFL is not fit for purpose and needs a radical overhaul,  the introduction of VAR would be a start as it would put the referee's under closer scrutiny but I won't be holding my breath waiting for that.

 

I'm with you all the way on that Allan.  The SFA totally ignores the fact that football is an entertainment industry and the paying customers should be given more consideration in terms of major refereeing explanations.  VAR is a great step forward but the devil will be in the detail i.e. how it is used and where it is used.

I've been saying for years that the SFA and now the SPFL are not fit for purpose and need a radical overhaul, but as you say thats not happening anytime soon. 

For various reasons, including the identity of our opponents, Madden's decisions on Wednesday evening have not been scrutinised in the media.  

[Great Balls of Shire]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:09 PM, MJC_mkII said:

From that picture it looks like both feet are off the line, albeit the right foot is close.

as long as every pen in the spfl is examined as forensically, going to be a helluva retakes

[MJC]

35 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

as long as every pen in the spfl is examined as forensically, going to be a helluva retakes

Agreed. Having seen it from different angles then I have to say that I was wrong and that the decision was harsh.

[joewarkfanclub]

4 hours ago, steelboy said:

I don't get where the McGinley is a better defender than Carroll stuff comes from. Carroll was playing every week when we were keeping clean sheets and finished third in 19/20. He then came back into the team in January and again we had a good run of defensive displays. 

I'm also struggling to think when he would have played in 3-5-2 for us. 

Just from watching them both.

Carroll regularly gets caught sleeping or out of position and has to use his pace to try and recover the situation. Its one of the reasons he gets booked or sent off as he has a tendency to lunge into a tackle to try and remedy the problem.

McGinley isnt miles better, but it happens to him less often.

Carroll is miles better on the ball though, so it is potentially worth putting up with his defensive frailties just to be better when we actually have it.

You are probably right about the 3-5-2. He probably hasnt played it much. But it stands to reason he would be much less of a risk defensively if he had an extra defender in behind him and he could focus on what he does best.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Carroll is miles better on the ball though, so it is potentially worth putting up with his defensive frailties just to be better when we actually have it.

The problem is that our stats show that we often have considerably less than 50% possession in games!

[GazzyB]

So let's make better use of the times that we do have the ball. McGinley is absolutely murder.

[smiddy]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:05 PM, steelboy said:

It's arguable whether it's possible to judge with TV pictures if you can tell if the goalie moved before the ball was kicked. 

It's impossible with the naked eye unless it's totally blatant. 

would madden have orderded a retake if the smelic or rangurs goalies had saved a pen at home to give the away team a draw                NOPE DONT THINK HE WOULDIV    rat of a man 

[smiddy]

On 10/28/2021 at 5:24 PM, SteelmaninOZ said:

This is why we love Liam Kelly 

 

https://youtu.be/JTVBhc-QIVk

 

yip but what about the 1st goal    runs out , stops then give brophy 3 yards to curl one inn, good finish,bad goal keeping decision on a par with tyncastle 

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, smiddy said:

yip but what about the 1st goal    runs out , stops then give brophy 3 yards to curl one inn, good finish,bad goal keeping decision on a par with tyncastle 

He stopped because he didn't want to dive in and give away a pen like Tynecastle.

[smiddy]

9 hours ago, weeyin said:

He stopped because he didn't want to dive in and give away a pen like Tynecastle.

ying or yang       same ending 

[wellsince75]

just back from hols and watched the highlights.

Overall we looked pretty poor apart from the golden 15 minute spell where we grabbed the 2 goals. That said the match officials have been really poor. 

Solhom was pulled down in the first half. If he had the cuteness of Brophy we'd have a certain pen.. 
Watts pen. First tackle was poor in the box and why the keeper wasn't booked or sent off is a bit odd. 
Their pen .  Very soft, almost as if the ref was looking to find a way to even things out.
The retake - a joke. 

I don't believe the officials are biased or anti Motherwell , just poor. 

In theory these things balance out over the season but we need to learn to be a bit more savvy in both boxes. 

 

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, wellsince75 said:

just back from hols and watched the highlights.

Overall we looked pretty poor apart from the golden 15 minute spell where we grabbed the 2 goals. That said the match officials have been really poor. 

Solhom was pulled down in the first half. If he had the cuteness of Brophy we'd have a certain pen.. 
Watts pen. First tackle was poor in the box and why the keeper wasn't booked or sent off is a bit odd. 
Their pen .  Very soft, almost as if the ref was looking to find a way to even things out.
The retake - a joke. 

I don't believe the officials are biased or anti Motherwell , just poor. 

In theory these things balance out over the season but we need to learn to be a bit more savvy in both boxes. 

 

I can handle the poor calls except for the penalty retake. That was completely ridiculous. Even if his back foot was off the line (which it does not seem to be) that is way too close for the linesman to call while determining when the ball started to move. My only explanation is that the linesman does not know the rules. Sees his front foot well off the line ahead of the ball moving and calls it based on that.