VAR in Scottish Football

[joewarkfanclub]

Re our 3 penalty incidents yesterday.

The first one with Tierney is difficult to tell. The contact from the stand side camera is obscured by the Aberdeen player and the camera behind the goal doesnt pick it up until after Tierney goes to ground. I thought it looked like a fair shout in real time but I can understand why VAR cant over rule the referee on that occasion.

Re the handball, it is quite clear to me. I watched Sportscene last night and Shelley Kerr is saying it clearly hits his hip. Really? My eyesight must be shocking as it looks like it hits his hand to me. The question would be was it deliberate, and again thats subjective. Some will give it, some wont.

Finally the Lamie incident isnt even a question. How VAR could look at that and not think that is a penalty I have no idea. Its as clear a penalty as you will see.

Of course we still have to score it to get anything from the game and the form KVV was in yesterday gives no guarantees. But these are the fine margins that decide games in our league and regardless of the performance yesterday, our fans need to show a bit more understanding when it comes to their assessment of the manager.

[texanwellfan]

It would help a lot if they had some sort of communications to allow clubs to ask questions regarding incidents and for the officials to reply.  I know that could get messy but surely they could sit down for a bit and come up with some controlled system to address issues rather than just have a blanket “no response” from officials.  The lack of explanation/accountability can be quite infuriating. So with VAR being new you would think they would want open dialogue to address issues/complaints/understanding of the system. Simple question, “defender clearly grabbing Lamies shirt literally almost off is back. Why was there no review or there was a review that said no foul”? Let officials or their organization respond and decide if we need to improve the VAR procedures or if cameras didn’t catch it or we saw it and decide no PK. Even just in general there needs to be a forum for dialogue between officials and clubs. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

6 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

It would help a lot if they had some sort of communications to allow clubs to ask questions regarding incidents and for the officials to reply.  I know that could get messy but surely they could sit down for a bit and come up with some controlled system to address issues rather than just have a blanket “no response” from officials.  The lack of explanation/accountability can be quite infuriating. So with VAR being new you would think they would want open dialogue to address issues/complaints/understanding of the system. Simple question, “defender clearly grabbing Lamies shirt literally almost off is back. Why was there no review or there was a review that said no foul”? Let officials or their organization respond and decide if we need to improve the VAR procedures or if cameras didn’t catch it or we saw it and decide no PK. Even just in general there needs to be a forum for dialogue between officials and clubs. 

Why would they need to be accountable to us, the paying public....they've been treating us with contempt for years... totally get why people get scunnered and stay away.

Rr the lamie incident, it's the poorest of excuses that the whistle has gone, the club and fans should press for accountability.

[weeyin]

4 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Rr the lamie incident, it's the poorest of excuses that the whistle has gone, the club and fans should press for accountability.

It certainly is. On at least one occasion I've seen a VAR penalty decision given after the final whistle and the ref restarted the game and let them take it.

[texanwellfan]

9 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Why would they need to be accountable to us, the paying public....they've been treating us with contempt for years... totally get why people get scunnered and stay away.

Rr the lamie incident, it's the poorest of excuses that the whistle has gone, the club and fans should press for accountability.

Did someone actually put that forward as an excuse? 

[Great Balls of Shire]

3 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Did someone actually put that forward as an excuse? 

I am sure hammy said that when he asked why incident wasn't being looked at , he was told game was finished.

Ref has missed it , so is not the job of var to bring it to his attention?

[weeyin]

11 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Ref has missed it , so is not the job of var to bring it to his attention?

You'd hope so - otherwise, what's the point of having it?

[Spiderpig]

1 minute ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I am sure hammy said that when he asked why incident wasn't being looked at , he was told game was finished.

Ref has missed it , so is not the job of var to bring it to his attention?

As I understand its the VAR officials who decide if an incident needs reviewed, they should be telling the ref to stop play etc till the review is over, and if that means the game goes on longer then that's what should happen. So for me the VAR team fecked up, by not informing the ref of a pending review or more likely they were not watching it either way it should not have happened. Can you imagine the uproar if that had happened in a game involving the uglies

It's not been a very professional start for VAR so it needs to improve rapidly for people to have any confidence in it.

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, weeyin said:

It certainly is. On at least one occasion I've seen a VAR penalty decision given after the final whistle and the ref restarted the game and let them take it.

In Germany a referee even insisted a team be brought out of the Dressing Room to allow a penalty to be taken following a review. And Goodwin clearly knew it should have been reviewed given his questioning of the fourth official when the whistle blew. No doubt we will hear the usual "It is a new system and we will learn" standard response.

[joewarkfanclub]

The infringement happened before the final whistle. It shouldnt matter that the review wasnt completed by then. I cant actually believe that is the real reason it wasnt reviewed or given, but as Texan says, without clear dialogue we are all left in the dark guessing.

[Kmcalpin]

As others are rightly saying, surely the review should be active in order to examine the full game and not simply switch off at the final whistle. This seems a ludicrous explanation.  Surely the paying public are due an explantion from the VAR staff/match officials. As it is, we don't know for sure what the actual explanation is.  We don't even know if the match officials/VAR staff have even discussed it post match.

[GrahamH]

13 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

As others are rightly saying, surely the review should be active in order to examine the full game and not simply switch off at the final whistle. This seems a ludicrous explanation.  Surely the paying public are due an explantion from the VAR staff/match officials. As it is, we don't know for sure what the actual explanation is.  We don't even know if the match officials/VAR staff have even discussed it post match.

Hopefully someone from the media will bring this up at the next pre-match interview and Hammell can provide an update.

[Great Balls of Shire]

15 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

As others are rightly saying, surely the review should be active in order to examine the full game and not simply switch off at the final whistle. This seems a ludicrous explanation.  Surely the paying public are due an explantion from the VAR staff/match officials. As it is, we don't know for sure what the actual explanation is.  We don't even know if the match officials/VAR staff have even discussed it post match.

Yes, the fact we are all second guessing the reason is crazy, we have all paid to watch game, it's totally unsatisfactory to treat paying public like this but we accept it because it's always been this way 

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Yes, the fact we are all second guessing the reason is crazy, we have all paid to watch game, it's totally unsatisfactory to treat paying public like this but we accept it because it's always been this way 

If the authorities cared about the paying public, we wouldn't have plastic pitches, 6:15pm (or noon Sunday) kick-offs or Willie Collum.

[Mad Dog]

As a rugby fan, I really do think that they have it right by allowing the dialogue between the match officials and video refs to be heard by all. I really don't understand this need for secrecy when making important decisions in football matches.

[numpty]

40 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

As a rugby fan, I really do think that they have it right by allowing the dialogue between the match officials and video refs to be heard by all. I really don't understand this need for secrecy when making important decisions in football matches.

Rugby crowds are historically a bit less likely to come on the pitch and try to murder you, or key your car, or smash your windows later, I suppose.

[weeyin]

Noticed this today in an article about VAR and it's impact on the game.

Quote

 

In Madrid, the referee blew the final whistle on Atlético’s 2-2 draw against Bayer Leverkusen. Uefa’s website displayed “full time” next to the scoreline. Diego Simeone’s side were out of the Champions League.

Atlético Madrid’s 2-2 draw with Bayer Leverkusen was also marked by a dramatic VAR intervention.

But there was more to come, a penalty awarded after the final whistle – dramatically saved by Lukas Hradecky, headed on to the crossbar and finally out to safety via a deflection off Yannick Carrasco, who had struck the spot-kick.

 

 

[Spiderpig]

45 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Noticed this today in an article about VAR and it's impact on the game.

 

That's the premium version of VAR, great technology and officials who know what they are doing, not the pound shop version the Scottish Premiership seems to have implemented which denied us a stonewall penalty on Saturday.

 

[well_said]

59 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

That's the premium version of VAR, great technology and officials who know what they are doing, not the pound shop version the Scottish Premiership seems to have implemented which denied us a stonewall penalty on Saturday.

 

You're being extremely disrespectful to pound shops.

[pretzel]

The Dundee United programme has a good article on VAR today and how it's suppose to work.

I had asked the question earlier in the week about can the VAR officials not bring an incident to the refs attention and it appears they should be doing so in regards to straight red cards, penalty area incidents and goals. It was clear they never bothered as it took minutes to check a goal that was well on side. Ironically the end of that paragraph has a bit saying VAR will automatically be checking these things so players/coaches do not need to ask for an intervention. Hammell mentioned in his interview yesterday the club had contacted Crawford Allan looking for answers on what happened.

 

[Kmcalpin]

Ian Maxwell, the SFA's Chief Executive insists VAR is working. Interestingly he says "I would disagree that they [fans] don't think it's working" when asked about those criticisms. "I'd say they have issues potentially with the time it takes, potentially with the communication opportunities we've got within inside the stadiums - and those are challenges we need to face."

It seems he is speaking for us, but has he actually asked the fans?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63812494

[wellfan]

9 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Ian Maxwell, the SFA's Chief Executive insists VAR is working. Interestingly he says "I would disagree that they [fans] don't think it's working" when asked about those criticisms. "I'd say they have issues potentially with the time it takes, potentially with the communication opportunities we've got within inside the stadiums - and those are challenges we need to face."

It seems he is speaking for us, but has he actually asked the fans?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63812494

VAR in the Scottish game is a pile of shite. It's like strapping a rocket to a faulty grenade in a futile attempt to 'improve' it. All it ends up doing is exacerbating the clusterfuck that is Scottish refereeing incompetence. 

[wellwell91]

VAR is shite … … …Full Stop 

Did anyone see the absolutely farcical decisions yesterday The French s disallowed goal and the Argentina penalty … … The game is fecked if we continue like this 

[Spiderpig]

5 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

VAR is shite … … …Full Stop 

Did anyone see the absolutely farcical decisions yesterday The French s disallowed goal and the Argentina penalty … … The game is fecked if we continue like this 

I admit I was all in favour of VAR being introduced to Scotland but having seen it in operation I am not convinced it does anything to improve the game, especially with the bargin basement shite system we have.

The disallowed French goal was a feckin joke, 2nd phase of play, ball headed back to Griezeman by the Tunisian player and they disallowed it ffs.

So for me I would ditch it, as I can see no improvement or benefit to football in general from it.

[cambo97]

5 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

I admit I was all in favour of VAR being introduced to Scotland but having seen it in operation I am not convinced it does anything to improve the game, especially with the bargin basement shite system we have.

The disallowed French goal was a feckin joke, 2nd phase of play, ball headed back to Griezeman by the Tunisian player and they disallowed it ffs.

So for me I would ditch it, as I can see no improvement or benefit to football in general from it.

It's still so inconsistent, which VAR should have been able to sort out.  They allowed the similar, Füllkrug goal last against Costa Rica when he was miles off side and the ball was played back in to a German who chested it to Fullkerg who then scored.

There was a goal earlier on in the tournament which was disallowed because a player was deemed to be blocking the view of the keeper who was already diving when there was a deflection which put the ball in the other corner, in the next game a shot was hit from outside the area which almost hit a player in an offside position standing in front of the keeper but it was deemed OK.