Alexander.

[Spiderpig]

17 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Thats a good stat.

But what about runs without a win?

It's the points gained from those " without a win" games that ensured we stayed in 4th place for so long despite being brutal and ensured a top 6 finish, Tierney's goal at St Mirren,  woolery at Ibrox . The league table does not lie after 33 games the best 6 teams in the country are there on merit and we are one of them. 

[Kmcalpin]

Its been a strange season and even with 5 games to go I don't know what to make of it. A poor (but maybe experimental) league cup campaign; a great first half to the league season; a terrible second half to it so far; a quarter final exit in the Scottish Cup; a top 6 finish; and not playing attractive football. A real mixed bag.  Statistically, a successful season in my book and the club will benefit financially.  All this set in the context of a Covid pandemic and all the consequences that has brought for football.

GA was on the point of losing my support but he has redeeemed things somewhat in the last fortnight. His team seelction and tactics have been unfathomable at times and style of play unattractive.   However I remember Tommy MacLean's early teams and those of Jim MacLean at Tannadice so they set things in context. My expectations for entertainment are fairly modest compared to many I suppose.  

We have some contunuity now and that will help going forward. My hope is that GA works in the coming months to fine tune the squad - get rid of non performers and stiffen the defence (a priority in my view). We have the basis of a good midfield but the attack needs some work. I also hope that he brings a slightly more attractive style of play to the club. His relationship and communication with the fans needs a bit of work. All told though, he's done the business on the field.

[fizoxy]

Overall, he got us top six with a genuine chance of 4th, while also sucking the joy out of the game. I doubt that the latter will be remembered when tickets go on sale for our euro home clash against Albania's (4th) finest.

I wonder if he'll chuck on the reserves for the early European games if we get in, since he won't have the league cup to mess around with.

Fair play to GA for sticking to his methods, which ultimately worked. Who knows if it's just pure luck or moneyball data driven magic. It's also clear that the players are sticking to what they're told, we don't panic and we have shown great resolve to push through this shite run and get ourselves back into games where previous teams would have chucked it.

It doesn't feel like there's still five games left. Even though there's some interest left, with Europe, finishing above T.Watt, and maybe screwing up a title challenge for someone, I'm already in close season mode.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[joewarkfanclub]

6 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

It's the points gained from those " without a win" games that ensured we stayed in 4th place for so long despite being brutal and ensured a top 6 finish, Tierney's goal at St Mirren,  woolery at Ibrox . The league table does not lie after 33 games the best 6 teams in the country are there on merit and we are one of them. 

My point is you can usually make stats say whatever you want them to say.

Im not arguing that GA should be sacked . I was very supportive of his appointment and although I have been teetering on the edge for quite some time, he got us over the line and met the target he was set by the club. For that he deserves the opportunity to build on and improve our current position.

But lets not paper over the cracks. Balance works both ways.

[I'll*no*be*back]

On 4/5/2022 at 12:40 AM, fizoxy said:

The managers job is to win games and get us as high up the league as possible. If he pulls off the result at the weekend (even if we scrape a dire 0-0 and other results help us out) and we get top six, then he deserves the credit. Just the same as he deserves to get slated if the opposite happens.

The style of football hasn't been great, but there aren't any points available for entertainment value.

Hopefully we can make a couple of tweaks to the squad and a solid preseason with a relatively settled group will result in more exciting football, kind of how it came together for McLean back in the day after a few years of turgid stuff. It isn't a guarantee, but it's what's keeping me going.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 

Im no fan of GA or the dross we watch but football is a results business, nothing else matters. Therefore he will have probably over delivered on the remit the club will have given him. For that he deserves credit.

[wellsince75]

2 hours ago, I'll*no*be*back said:

Im no fan of GA or the dross we watch but football is a results business, nothing else matters. Therefore he will have probably over delivered on the remit the club will have given him. For that he deserves credit.

This is exactly how I feel .  His results over the 18 month period we spot on - well done .

Just willing him to talk about trying to play more footy going forward - that’s all it would take to get fans on board 

[grizzlyg]

For remit he has delivered but for my opinion he has still a lot to do to win me over. Hopefully penny has dropped with him with regards to team selections but time will tell

[Yodo]

The Sky interview with Alexander after the game yesterday had me squirming he called out the media for not giving the club or the players the praise they deserve for getting in the top six . I think the problem was Graeme that nobody could believe how we got in the top six with the results and playing the piss poor football that we have done all season . Can only think he tried to deflect from the results we have had since the turn of the year and performances . Going to what is likely a title party on the last day fills me with fear if Shellic turn on the style it will be the biggest massacre since Custer’s last stand but will it be Alexander’s last game ?

[Spiderpig]

Reading some of the posts on this forum you get the impression that some people think we should not be in the top 6 or we have made it there illegally.  Yes we have been utter garbage since Christmas but so were the other 8 teams outwith the top 3, we made it by picking up vital points at Ibrox, St Mirren,  Livingston etc while the others around us failed so we are there on merit.

Apart from the ugly sisters and Hearts the standard in the premiership is brutal but the league positions don't lie and after 33 games we were better than the 6 teams below us.

I really don't know what some people expect from Motherwell, every season 10 teams start the league with targets of avoiding relegation, top 6 finish and a decent cup run, and a shot at Europe, so for me we have achieved 3 of those targets and still very much in the frame for the 4th. So if we do make Europe then for me it's been a good season.

 

[MJC]

The reality is that we are in the top six inspite of ourselves and Graham Alexander, not because of. We have been poor all season and played very little in the way of football and since the turn of the year have been utterly dismal. Fortunately for us so have several other sides so that has allowed us to sneak into the top six but even then we barely deserved it. Livingston allowing a 2-0 lead to slip against us must have them absolutely kicking themselves.

On paper we have matched our remit, more than matched it really, but anyone who has watched us all season will know that that doesn’t tell half the story. We are a poor, poor side with a smattering of decent players who could do a job for us under the right management team. Unfortunately we have a poor, poor manager and there appears to be no desire from within the club to change things, especially since he was recently awarded a new contract.

[MJC]

3 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

I really don't know what some people expect from Motherwell

How about a competitive team playing at least some form of entertaining football to give the support something to look forward to when going to games?

[grizzlyg]

It is a strange one as we are top 6 and chasing a European place,  I can understand the views from fans of Alexander. However, my view is the problems are a lot deeper,  he just doesn't endear himself with his selections, terrible interviews and a signing record which really hasn't been impressive.  Anyone that reads my posts knows I am desperate for us to start producing our own players and stop this policy of lower league players from down south.  We have branched out to European leagues but if ojala, johansen and efford is the standard then I fear the worse.  My opinion hasn't changed and I feel we need a new manager.....but......if somehow GA can turn things round and pick the correct side, get rid of the poor players and make us more entertaining I will be the first person to come back on this forum and apologise..COYW

[El Grew]

Ah, the old argument “the ends justify the means”.  Well I’m sorry not for me.  Claret and amber runs like blood through my family from my grandfather, my father and my uncles down to me. I love it and wouldn’t change it.  Like every provincial club we’ve had our ups  and downs, highs and lows and doubtless this will continue ad infinitum.

However, I like to be able to see footballers, either as individuals or as a team being entertaining first and foremost. I remember a few years back when the late. great Davie Cooper signed for us. I’m the first to admit that I was against it as I thought he was well past his best. Well I went to see us playing Dundee Utd at FP not long after he signed for us.  He produced a couple of moments of sheer magic. For the first, he picked up the ball just inside his own half and proceeded to slalom past 3 defenders and placed the ball into the corner of the net. For the second, he produced a sublimely disguised reverse pass into the path of Dougie Arnott in the penalty area and Dougie duly dispatched it into the net beyond the advancing keeper.  Genius at work even in the twilight of his football career.  I was forced to admit I’d been wrong and remember telling my mates that those two moments alone were worth the entrance money. 

To see people doing something that you can’t is what entertainment is all about. I’m afraid however that it’s in extremely short supply at FP just now.

[grizzlyg]

11 minutes ago, El Grew said:

Ah, the old argument “the ends justify the means”.  Well I’m sorry not for me.  Claret and amber runs like blood through my family from my grandfather, my father and my uncles down to me. I love it and wouldn’t change it.  Like every provincial club we’ve had our ups  and downs, highs and lows and doubtless this will continue ad infinitum.

However, I like to be able to see footballers, either as individuals or as a team being entertaining first and foremost. I remember a few years back when the late. great Davie Cooper signed for us. I’m the first to admit that I was against it as I thought he was well past his best. Well I went to see us playing Dundee Utd at FP not long after he signed for us.  He produced a couple of moments of sheer magic. For the first, he picked up the ball just inside his own half and proceeded to slalom past 3 defenders and placed the ball into the corner of the net. For the second, he produced a sublimely disguised reverse pass into the path of Dougie Arnott in the penalty area and Dougie duly dispatched it into the net beyond the advancing keeper.  Genius at work even in the twilight of his football career.  I was forced to admit I’d been wrong and remember telling my mates that those two moments alone were worth the entrance money. 

To see people doing something that you can’t is what entertainment is all about. I’m afraid however that it’s in extremely short supply at FP just now.

I remember that game and was main game on sportscene,  over 8000 at the game,  ahhhh happy days

[Kmac]

31 minutes ago, El Grew said:

Ah, the old argument “the ends justify the means”.  Well I’m sorry not for me.  Claret and amber runs like blood through my family from my grandfather, my father and my uncles down to me. I love it and wouldn’t change it.  Like every provincial club we’ve had our ups  and downs, highs and lows and doubtless this will continue ad infinitum.

However, I like to be able to see footballers, either as individuals or as a team being entertaining first and foremost. I remember a few years back when the late. great Davie Cooper signed for us. I’m the first to admit that I was against it as I thought he was well past his best. Well I went to see us playing Dundee Utd at FP not long after he signed for us.  He produced a couple of moments of sheer magic. For the first, he picked up the ball just inside his own half and proceeded to slalom past 3 defenders and placed the ball into the corner of the net. For the second, he produced a sublimely disguised reverse pass into the path of Dougie Arnott in the penalty area and Dougie duly dispatched it into the net beyond the advancing keeper.  Genius at work even in the twilight of his football career.  I was forced to admit I’d been wrong and remember telling my mates that those two moments alone were worth the entrance money. 

To see people doing something that you can’t is what entertainment is all about. I’m afraid however that it’s in extremely short supply at FP just now.

That’s really the point isn’t it?

Some of us have been crying out for years that we needed quality over quantity. No one can tell Me that combining the salaries of Amaluzor, Neirenoold, Parker and Roberts this season wouldn’t have seen us land a relative top quality player for our level. Given the nature of the league, sometimes one is all it takes to excite people and propel a team up the league yet for some reason we continue to splash the cash on bodies rather than having a plan of exciting the support. 

[wellsince75]

GA does the ugly stuff well - otherwise we’d  be bottom. We win a lot of 2nd balls etc and don’t often get pumped .

Kelly and Watt are the key 2 players - without either we’d never have made top 6 as the second half of the season has proven . 

like all managers he’s made some very poor singings but equally he’s made several decent signings .

my issue is threefold 

1) anti football - I can never recall a Motherwell team with so little ability to do basics 

2) his arrogance - ranging from having to listen to his pre and post match interviews to his stubborn tactics . I can’t help  but believe our better players get dropped for months because they challenge him . 
 

3) resigning - all mgrs will sign players who won’t work out but ffs don’t re sign them . Carrol, mcginley , maguire , roberts x2 .

I wouldn’t have him on the basis I don’t believe he’ll be good for the club long term BUT I don’t  believe for a minute he should be sacked .  

Unless theres signs of gross misconduct how could any employer sack a manager who’s performing better than the core requirements.   We knew what we were getting . A manager with a good points ratio with all clubs he’s been at.  He’s also been known to be his way or high way hence why other clubs punted him.

in short those in charge have got what we knew we would . We’ve got the league position we wanted . It’s sadly just now how we wanted it .

Until we end up 9th or worse we won’t get rid. 
at the moment that could easily be before Xmas - depends if we make real quality signings or not . 
 

[Yorkyred]

2 hours ago, Yodo said:

The Sky interview with Alexander after the game yesterday had me squirming he called out the media for not giving the club or the players the praise they deserve for getting in the top six . I think the problem was Graeme that nobody could believe how we got in the top six with the results and playing the piss poor football that we have done all season . Can only think he tried to deflect from the results we have had since the turn of the year and performances . Going to what is likely a title party on the last day fills me with fear if Shellic turn on the style it will be the biggest massacre since Custer’s last stand but will it be Alexander’s last game ?

No, as much as I’ve not enjoyed the football he’s going nowhere based on finishing top six and the quarter finals of the cup. He’s met his target and then some.

[Yodo]

1 hour ago, Yorkyred said:

No, as much as I’ve not enjoyed the football he’s going nowhere based on finishing top six and the quarter finals of the cup. He’s met his target and then some.

Just like Robinson the light will eventually go on in the boardroom and the manager and his brutal style of football will be gone ,hope it’s soon 

[ropy]

4 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Reading some of the posts on this forum you get the impression that some people think we should not be in the top 6 or we have made it there illegally.  Yes we have been utter garbage since Christmas but so were the other 8 teams outwith the top 3, we made it by picking up vital points at Ibrox, St Mirren,  Livingston etc while the others around us failed so we are there on merit.

Apart from the ugly sisters and Hearts the standard in the premiership is brutal but the league positions don't lie and after 33 games we were better than the 6 teams below us.

I really don't know what some people expect from Motherwell, every season 10 teams start the league with targets of avoiding relegation, top 6 finish and a decent cup run, and a shot at Europe, so for me we have achieved 3 of those targets and still very much in the frame for the 4th. So if we do make Europe then for me it's been a good season.

 

Correct.  We were sitting fifth and a point at Livingston made sure we didn’t drop out of the top six - we didn’t sneak in at the last minute, there was a two point cushion over the teams in 7th and 8th.  We were in fourth position for more weeks than we were anywhere else and certainly sat in the top six for the vast majority of the season.  We finished that stage of the league where we deserved to be.

[Yodo]

8 minutes ago, ropy said:

Correct.  We were sitting fifth and a point at Livingston made sure we didn’t drop out of the top six - we didn’t sneak in at the last minute, there was a two point cushion over the teams in 7th and 8th.  We were in fourth position for more weeks than we were anywhere else and certainly sat in the top six for the vast majority of the season.  We finished that stage of the league where we deserved to be.

Yer right the league table never lies and anybody looking from outside Scotland must think we are not a bad side but how far from the truth is that we are rank rotten with pish poor players and a manager who hasn’t a clue 

[ZT_1886]

Expectations have to change as the season goes on. We were comfortably sitting 4th up against the worst standard the league has seen in years at the turn of the year.

Form since then has been unacceptable and there would be definite justification if the board decided to sack him.

[ropy]

9 minutes ago, ZT_1886 said:

Expectations have to change as the season goes on. We were comfortably sitting 4th up against the worst standard the league has seen in years at the turn of the year.

Form since then has been unacceptable and there would be definite justification if the board decided to sack him.

And appoint who, most of the other candidates are bottom six managers 

[Spiderpig]

36 minutes ago, Yodo said:

Yer right the league table never lies and anybody looking from outside Scotland must think we are not a bad side but how far from the truth is that we are rank rotten with pish poor players and a manager who hasn’t a clue 

Don't talk shite, our players and the managers tactics etc are obviously better than the six teams who were below us at the split so you are correct the league table never lies. So even if we don't win another game this season the record books will show we finished  the 6th best team in Scotland this year.

[ZT_1886]

And appoint who, most of the other candidates are bottom six managers 

I have more faith in us getting the decision right if we do it now than waiting until December when the job is less attractive.

[mfc]

14 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Don't talk shite, our players and the managers tactics etc are obviously better than the six teams who were below us at the split so you are correct the league table never lies. So even if we don't win another game this season the record books will show we finished  the 6th best team in Scotland this year.

I don't particularly rate alexander but i agree with you,any talk of us not deserving to be in the top 6 is just nonsense,over the piece we done what was needed no matter if it did take a last minute goal to get us there,it doesn't matter.i think what is frustrating is that had we won even a couple of more league games since the winter break we could have had 4th place all but done,were still right in the mix though giving the other results today.