Alexander.

[Yodo]

36 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Don't talk shite, our players and the managers tactics etc are obviously better than the six teams who were below us at the split so you are correct the league table never lies. So even if we don't win another game this season the record books will show we finished  the 6th best team in Scotland this year.

A chairman’s dream u are 

[Heisenboab]

Really think our problems run deeper than the manager. We have the same discussions every single year about whoever is in charge that season.

I've no doubt the people who run the club have its best interests at heart but keeping the club running seems to be our only objective. I see zero ambition within the club to win anything meaningful or give the fans something to be proud of.

As someone said earlier we knew what we were getting with Alexander and it just shows the level we are aiming for, mediocrity. 

I'm not asking or expecting a cup win every other year but we have to look to put some entertainment on the park at the very least. Countless managers have failed to deliver this. Can probably count on 1 hand the number of entertaining seasons in the past 25 years or so.

I understand lot of the 'reality check' comments.  We can't and won't spend millions to chase success but how are we meant to attract and retain fans when we do nothing but plod along in the league year after year. I'm getting sick of it.

Maybe a season or two (or more) in the Championship will bring a level of excitement back for me. Clubs attitute seems to be that Championship is our level and we're punching above our weight and lot of fans are buying into that shite.

[santheman]

6 minutes ago, Heisenboab said:

Really think our problems run deeper than the manager. We have the same discussions every single year about whoever is in charge that season.

I've no doubt the people who run the club have its best interests at heart but keeping the club running seems to be our only objective. I see zero ambition within the club to win anything meaningful or give the fans something to be proud of.

As someone said earlier we knew what we were getting with Alexander and it just shows the level we are aiming for, mediocrity. 

I'm not asking or expecting a cup win every other year but we have to look to put some entertainment on the park at the very least. Countless managers have failed to deliver this. Can probably count on 1 hand the number of entertaining seasons in the past 25 years or so.

I understand lot of the 'reality check' comments.  We can't and won't spend millions to chase success but how are we meant to attract and retain fans when we do nothing but plod along in the league year after year. I'm getting sick of it.

Maybe a season or two (or more) in the Championship will bring a level of excitement back for me. Clubs attitute seems to be that Championship is our level and we're punching above our weight and lot of fans are buying into that shite.

You should go into the Killie and Midden threads in P&B and see how enjoyable the championship was/has been for them.

Doesn't make  good reading for anyone who thinks it would be better .

[Heisenboab]

Just now, santheman said:

You should go into the Killie and Midden threads in P&B and see how enjoyable the championship was/has been for them.

Doesn't make  good reading for anyone who thinks it would be enjoyable.

At least they have a couple of bits of silverware to show off. 25 years following us and only trophy I've seen us lift is masters 

[Spiderpig]

9 minutes ago, Yodo said:

A chairman’s dream u are 

Nah just stating the facts, I know you have trouble with them at times we have been brutal but not as brutal as half of the league below us.

[Yodo]

20 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Nah just stating the facts, I know you have trouble with them at times we have been brutal but not as brutal as half of the league below us.

Don’t care a jot about the rest of the league . Going forward we should be worried about doing a Dunfermline going down the leagues never to appear in the top flight again with this manager in charge it could happen 

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Don't talk shite, our players and the managers tactics etc are obviously better than the six teams who were below us at the split so you are correct the league table never lies. So even if we don't win another game this season the record books will show we finished  the 6th best team in Scotland this year.

For me it's about current form and  hopes for next season. Yeah, we finished ahead of six other teams at the time of the split and credit to all for that. But it is so blinkered to hide behind that achievement. The reality is we are now terrible. Our cup performances are also held up as worthy achievements. Well, we exited the League Cup at the hands of Dundee having scraped through a Group of lower league part timers. We struggled past Morton in the Scottish Cup and admittedly then put in a great performance against Aberdeen. Only to then blow it at home to Hibs. So one, and only one, decent performance. 

How have we performed since the turn of the year? Four long months, not just a couple of weeks. How many games have we won in the League in that time ? How entertained have you been?  What improvements or changes of tactics have you seen  during this shocking run we are on? How does our form over that same period compare with those six "poorer" sides? Are you confident this poor run will not continue under Alexander, and if so, based on what evidence. Were you more surprised at our capitulation to Rangers or that we stole a point from Livingston?

As another poster said, ambitions ( if not Managerial targets) change over the course of a season. Given our position towards the end of 2021 fourth place was a realistic target and a European place even more so given the OF or Hearts were likely Cup Winners. Since then we have been woeful, have under achieved and there are no signs of anything changing soon.

Unlike some on here I actually don't think we have that poor a squad, although it is disheartening to see what I consider our better players leaving/being forced out the door. Players are repeatedly played out of position and hung out to dry in a formation that has now been sussed by our opponents and  no longer effective. Mugabi at Right back as an example....least said the better about trying to solve that situation on Saturday by asking Cornelius to step back. Continuing to play so narrow defensively despite that set up being repeatedly exposed by all and sundry. Three players being overrun and outfought in midfield. No wonder the players look confused and angry at times.

I admire you if still retain hope and excitement for our future under Alexander. For me that's the thing. Hope and excitement are not two words that spring to mind when I set off for Fir Park nowadays. And I say that as someone who was delighted to see Alexander appointed. Enough is enough.

[texanwellfan]

We need to fix our issues before the other teams fix theirs or we are in deep trouble. 

[Pepper]

Not sure which forum it was but someone posted up the stats for the games up till the winter break. We were massively overachieving, winning games with 30odd percent possession and scoring with all of our shots on target. That post predicted a very stark correction in our fortunes if our "form" continued.

That's all that's happened.

We have been rank for much longer than this 1 win in the league this year run suggests, and there is nothing to suggest that things will improve under Alexander. 

Just becasue everyone else is sh*te too doesn't make it any easier to watch.

 

 

 

[yosemite sam]

The biggest disappointment for me is that we are 18 months into his managerial stint, and he still doesn't know what his best team is. How can players be expected to get an understanding of each other, if they play one week and are dropped the next. Also although there are many on here who don't rate S O'Donnell, whether we like it or not, he is a Scottish international player playing in his preferred position, but we put Mugabi, who in my opinion is the best pairing with Lamie, we have at Centre back. 

At every interview the manager is asked about availability, and my impression is he doesn't know who is injured or not.

He has unfortunately lost my support, and I've never felt so disenchanted with a manager in my 65 years of following MFC.

Edited April 25, 2022 by yosemite sam
bad grammer

[David]

On 4/24/2022 at 3:53 PM, Yodo said:

Yer right the league table never lies and anybody looking from outside Scotland must think we are not a bad side but how far from the truth is that we are rank rotten with pish poor players and a manager who hasn’t a clue 

And yet we qualified top six above sides such as Aberdeen and Hibs, who have, man for man, better players, and a much healthier budget. 

It must be infuriating when you really want something to be true, but it simply isn't. Are we Barcelona? No. And we're not pretty to watch, but we're not "rank rotten with pish poor players and a manager who hasn't a clue" or we'd be in the bottom six fighting relegation.

On 4/24/2022 at 5:48 PM, Yodo said:

Don’t care a jot about the rest of the league . Going forward we should be worried about doing a Dunfermline going down the leagues never to appear in the top flight again with this manager in charge it could happen 

With this manager in charge it could happen? Based on what? His record at the club so far? His 3 manager of the month awards? His top six finish? 

Or is your chat about sliding down the leagues all based on absolute nonsense?

[Yodo]

44 minutes ago, David said:

And yet we qualified top six above sides such as Aberdeen and Hibs, who have, man for man, better players, and a much healthier budget. 

It must be infuriating when you really want something to be true, but it simply isn't. Are we Barcelona? No. And we're not pretty to watch, but we're not "rank rotten with pish poor players and a manager who hasn't a clue" or we'd be in the bottom six fighting relegation.

With this manager in charge it could happen? Based on what? His record at the club so far? His 3 manager of the month awards? His top six finish? 

Or is your chat about sliding down the leagues all based on absolute nonsense?

You been hibernating over the winter 

[David]

2 hours ago, Yodo said:

You been hibernating over the winter 

The facts are there. You may not like them, but that doesn't make them less relevant. 

[Yodo]

17 minutes ago, David said:

The facts are there. You may not like them, but that doesn't make them less relevant. 

Mate we are pish poor with a squad of journeymen and a manager who doesn’t know his best team . Yes it turned out fine this season but unless we pick up decent players over the summer we will struggle next season again 

[Yorkyred]

The summer is going to be critical, but then name a summer it was not the case. At this point the board don’t have a decision to make, he’s starting next season as manager and we go from there. I would like a few better quality players, question is can we afford their wages, and would they want to join us. None league players down south along with half decent championship players up here need not apply.

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, David said:

The facts are there. You may not like them, but that doesn't make them less relevant. 

David, normally I agree with almost 100% of what you post. And I more often than not disagree with 100% of what Yodo posts. (no offence meant as everybody has the right to their opinion). And to be clear, I don't know either of you.

But since you like facts here is something to consider. And something that perhaps explains why a large number of our fans are extremely concerned.

At the winter break (Late December) every team had played 21 games and we sat comfortably in fourth place with a grand total of 31 points. So despite the style of football we played most people were accepting and supportive of our Manager. Particularly as he dragged us out of the relegation mire last season. Credit to him for those achievements.

Since that date every team has now played a further 13 League games. Points gained by those crap teams in the bottom six as follows - (if the tables I unearthed are accurate!)

Dundee 10 points,  St Johnstone 17 points, St Mirren 14 points, Aberdeen 8 Points, Livingston 18 points and Hibs 12 points. I'll add Ross County with 19 points because I think what they have achieved is fantastic and they were third bottom at the break.

Other than one post split game, all those sides played the exact same teams as us. We have amassed 9 points, so only Aberdeen have gathered less than us in 2022. And given their Budget (and manager) I would suggest their poor performance will not be repeated next season.

So the question is. When does current form take over from historical form and become the basis for predicting the path that lies ahead? Add to that the lack of light at the end of the tunnel and Alexander's apparent reluctance to alter an approach that has been failing since the restart.... having been sussed by every other team in the League. You clearly have great faith in our Manager and credit to you for that.  But fans....even Yodo...have grounds to be concerned. That does not mean that most of us hope the present run continues. I  prey we can at least overtake Ross County and secure a European place. But I'm far from convinced that will happen and I worry even more about what next season will bring if the current trend is not reversed. And I'm also far from convinced that Graeme Alexander even recognises the need to adapt his approach. Hopefully I am wrong and his supporters are correct because I don't think he is going anywhere.

[joewarkfanclub]

8 hours ago, dennyc said:

David, normally I agree with almost 100% of what you post. And I more often than not disagree with 100% of what Yodo posts. (no offence meant as everybody has the right to their opinion). And to be clear, I don't know either of you.

But since you like facts here is something to consider. And something that perhaps explains why a large number of our fans are extremely concerned.

At the winter break (Late December) every team had played 21 games and we sat comfortably in fourth place with a grand total of 31 points. So despite the style of football we played most people were accepting and supportive of our Manager. Particularly as he dragged us out of the relegation mire last season. Credit to him for those achievements.

Since that date every team has now played a further 13 League games. Points gained by those crap teams in the bottom six as follows - (if the tables I unearthed are accurate!)

Dundee 10 points,  St Johnstone 17 points, St Mirren 14 points, Aberdeen 8 Points, Livingston 18 points and Hibs 12 points. I'll add Ross County with 19 points because I think what they have achieved is fantastic and they were third bottom at the break.

Other than one post split game, all those sides played the exact same teams as us. We have amassed 9 points, so only Aberdeen have gathered less than us in 2022. And given their Budget (and manager) I would suggest their poor performance will not be repeated next season.

So the question is. When does current form take over from historical form and become the basis for predicting the path that lies ahead? Add to that the lack of light at the end of the tunnel and Alexander's apparent reluctance to alter an approach that has been failing since the restart.... having been sussed by every other team in the League. You clearly have great faith in our Manager and credit to you for that.  But fans....even Yodo...have grounds to be concerned. That does not mean that most of us hope the present run continues. I  prey we can at least overtake Ross County and secure a European place. But I'm far from convinced that will happen and I worry even more about what next season will bring if the current trend is not reversed. And I'm also far from convinced that Graeme Alexander even recognises the need to adapt his approach. Hopefully I am wrong and his supporters are correct because I don't think he is going anywhere.

If there was a post of the month award, I would be voting for this.

[David]

8 hours ago, dennyc said:

So the question is. When does current form take over from historical form and become the basis for predicting the path that lies ahead?

It's quite simple. He's more than likely going to be judged on the entire season, and quite rightly so, which has been a success as far as our actual results go. 

When the first ball was kicked this season I seriously doubted we'd make the top six. When the league consists of the teams it does at the moment, the top six should usually be a combination of Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee united, and Aberdeen. I saw that as a tough group to crack, especially considering their wage budgets and overall resources.

Our "current form" is that we've just qualified for the top six, we've gotten to the quarter finals of a cup, and we're sitting one single point off fourth place. If we all put aside our "fan brains" and thought about this logically, we'd surely have to accept and realise that the club would have to be daft to sack a manager who has just accomplished the above?

Our recent run hasn't been great, but again, we judge on the entire season. The actual league positions, the points. 

Stephen Robinson parted ways with the club when we were on a winless run of nine games, but were sitting tenth, two points off the bottom of the table. If we find ourselves in a similar position around November or December then I'm sure questions will be asked and a similar result reached. 

The question I'd ask you is what exactly you want to happen? You're voicing concerns over our form, which is fair enough, but what would you have the club do? Sack a manager in the summer who could potentially get us to fourth in the table? Who at the very least has, over the course of a season, gotten us into the top six? 

if you don't want to see him gone, then what's the answer? For me, he's been handed a list of requirements at the start of the season, and regardless of how he's done it, he's managed to hit those targets. 

The football hasn't been pleasing on the eye, the results since Christmas haven't been good enough. But we put enough in the bank early in the season to carry us through, and just as much as Alexander is deserving of criticism for his teams performances post-Christmas, he deserves credit for the performances pre-Christmas surely? 

He's hit his targets for this season. We still have a chance of a European position. 

Next season? Well, it all begins again, doesn't it? He's handed the remit that he was at the start of this season, and it's his job to make sure he hits or even exceeds those targets again. If it looks like he's in danger of falling below that remit, just Robinson, he'll likely move on. 

12 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I  prey we can at least overtake Ross County and secure a European place. But I'm far from convinced that will happen and I worry even more about what next season will bring if the current trend is not reversed.

I'm not going to concern myself with next season until we're a week or so away from kick-off. By the time next season rolls around we'll have a fairly different squad of players. We'll be playing against different teams, and all of those will have different squads, so we really have no idea how it's going to play out. 

My only concern is seeing us do enough to push for 4th. And if we're honest, that's a nice target to have at this time of the season. I bet Hibs and Aberdeen fans wouldn't mind concerning themselves with that.

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, David said:

 

Our "current form" is that we've just qualified for the top six, we've gotten to the quarter finals of a cup, and we're sitting one single point off fourth place. If we all put aside our "fan brains" and thought about this logically, we'd surely have to accept and realise that the club would have to be daft to sack a manager who has just accomplished the above?

 

Our “current form” form is that we have been abysmal since the start of 2022 and our Manager has been unable to reverse the decline. And that assessment of decline is not based on a few poor results over a couple of weeks. Four months is a long time to most football fans.  He has shown no intention of adjusting tactics that have been found out by our opponents and are exposing our players week after week. For whatever reason he has marginalised numerous players and played others out of position in an effort to shoe horn in others.  Performances when selected appear to count for nothing. Good or bad.
Our Cup record is that we were terrible in the League Cup, scraping through a Group of lower league teams….were you at Airdrie?….. and ultimately losing out to the team more than likely who will finish bottom of the Premiership. Fans were questioning Alexander back then. Clearly too early in the day but a sign of things to come. In the Scottish Cup we had a wonder goal to thank for struggling past a Morton team nowhere near a Championship play off spot, a great result against a struggling  Aberdeen and then blew it against a Hibs team who were later consigned to the bottom six. That Hibs result in my opinion due mostly to Alexander persisting with a player at right back who was an accident waiting to happen in order to facilitate a formation that has become so predictable. A decent Centre Back but a liability at full back. 
And you will see I did give credit to Alexander and the team for our position at the break. For our position but not the style of play or for entertainment value. The league position made that just about bearable, Just. 
Unlike you, I do not have faith in Alexander any more and I would not be disappointed to see him replaced sooner than later. Yes I accept that the squad next season will look a tad different, although nineteen of the current squad ( many of whom Alexander signed ) are contracted beyond 2022. Our best player pre break has already departed and our best player since the break is also heading out the door. I am not convinced Alexander has any intention of changing the approach currently adopted or of recruiting players to make that even possible.

In summary, I believe our success in making top six is despite Graeme Alexander and not because of Graeme Alexander. That and some big name rivals who were just as poor on and off the pitch but who have since taken steps to adjust those failings. Opponents who are looking forward and not looking to a time when their manager and players were performing to an acceptable level.

Time will tell who is correct because Alexander will be in charge next season come what may. Meantime the debate will continue. 

[David]

8 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Unlike you, I do not have faith in Alexander any more and I would not be disappointed to see him replaced sooner than later.

So you'd want to see him replaced in the summer then? 

[Great Balls of Shire]

if we can qualify for Europe in 4th or 5th place, I will say thats a result overall 

I've not been particularly entertained but if we are winning that takes the edge off.

we have two winnable  away games v County and United which will define our season

The players and manager have got to be up for them, finishing 6th when a Europe place is up for grabs would be a big disappointment 

[dennyc]

2 hours ago, David said:

So you'd want to see him replaced in the summer then? 

For the sake of clarity that will be a resounding resounding YES, if not before. I thought I hade made that perfectly clear in this and the Rangers thread. And in case you suggest I am desperate for his terrible run to continue to add to the debate, I do hope we can win on Saturday and beyond even with him steering the ship. We are now at the “win at all costs stage” as far as Europe and climbing the league is concerned. We cannot keep relying on others. A situation brought about by his and his team’s performance in the past four months. 

But unless he is prepared to change his approach and player management I dread to think how hard to bear next season will be. It is easy to avoid his pre and post match drivel but not so much the on field offerings. We will find out soon enough though as he is going nowhere. 
Perhaps your faith will be justified and my lack of faith shown to be misplaced. As I said, time will tell. You have your opinion. I have mine. So be it. 

[mfc]

I don't particularly rate alexander but there's no way we should be getting rid of a manager thats got us a top 6 finish.i do think he has a big job on his hands over the summer though as the recruitment must be spot on or we could easily carry on our poor form into next season and get off to a bad start and I think then he will come under some pressure.were very one dimensional and easy to play against,he has to find other ways of playing,even a plan b would be a good start.we could easily go two ways next season,we could kick on if we bring in the right sort of players or we will really struggle.i.hope every player that is out of contract moves on and we can add 3 or 4 that will be genuine starters and make us better,there's zero point in ridding the squad of guys like Justin,grimshaw and donnolly only to then fill the squad back up with similar standard.football wise it's been brutal to watch this season and there's been a couple of home games recently where it's felt like a bit of a chore to go too but the fact we could still end up with a european spot is crazy,if we could pull that off and get to the end of the season then the speculation about new players starts,it might actually be a bit of an exciting summer for us fans.

[C&A not the shop]

Where I think its worth giving Alexander the benefit of the doubt over the selection and recruitment is the covid factor and the decision to carry a large squad to deal with it. He's said he'd prefer a smaller squad and alot of what we're seeing in terms of selection may be die to him not being able to manage a large squad effectively. He thinks he has to rotate to keep guys happy but hasn't been able to get the balance right.

That would also go a way to explaining some of the more industrial performances as he doesn't think the players have the quality required.

In the year 2021 Alexander got the third highest points tally of any club. You can cherry pick time periods to make him look the dogs bollocks or dog shite, neither are true though. He's a mediocre SPL manager at a mid sized SPL club.  Yet here we are, shocked that we're sitting middle of the table, again.

 

[Yodo]

36 minutes ago, C&A not the shop said:

 

That would also go a way to explaining some of the more industrial performances as he doesn't think the players have the quality required.

 

 

Eh he signed the players but your willing to give him another go in the transfer market cannae believe that