Alexander.

[pretzel]

I'm not usually one for a knee jerk reaction but when he arrives back at Fir Park today he better be getting slapped across the face with a P45. I'll give the guy credit for digging us out of a hole during the 20/21 season, his first year in all fairness I'm sure he was best of the rest points wise but since signing that contract extension the football has been utterly abysmal as has the results that followed, it's like the same script every week. He's been given a luxury that most managers before him were rarely afforded and he has spent money signing quite a few players and we seem to have regressed massively, two of the players we spent a small fortune on  seem to be backup now (Ojala and Solholm), Kelly probably the best sellable asset and it was rumoured he had a tiff with Slattery earlier in the year. In the prediction thread yesterday, in more hope than expectation I gave Motherwell a top half finish as I thought that having that consistency squad wise would put us in good stead but no we're in real trouble and their is no doubt's about that. I know as the side we generally maybe lose more fixtures than we win but this is the first time I've ever been angry. He had horrible performances early in his reign as manager versus Hamilton and St Johnstone, it's that standard that seems to have become the norm now. 

[grizzlyg]

8 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Until this evening I was on the fence but wavering. I didn't even think that a loss tonight would lead to his ousting, but I've now changed my mind. Perhaps last week would be a one off? Tonight has shown that it wasn't; anything but in fact. Little changed between the first and second legs.  I looked at the team selection and wondered where the goals were going to come from. All our eggs in one unfit "basket". GA showed faith in a poor defence and picked them again.

In all my years of supporting our club I've rarely seen the support so united and brassed off with a manager - maybe the power of social media ha swhipped up the frenzy? The manner of our exit has now meant that his departure in the near future is inevitable. I had thought he'd be given perhaps 2 months but I now very doubt that. The Board will ignore the fans' outrage, for thats what it is, at its peril and I don't think they'll do that.  I have no inside information but I think he'll be gone by Sunday or Monday at the latest. Dragging matters on will benefit no-one and could lead to an undesirable atmosphere at the St Johnstone game.

Time for change and now.

 

Great post

[David]

10 hours ago, El Grew said:

That’s all well and good but football is a results based business for managers.  Surely there must be something in his contract covering his performance in that area.  He’s only managed 3 wins from our last 24 league games and if that’s not grounds for dismissal I don’t what is. 

His contract is likely structured to include a number of factors, but I'd imagine one of them is keeping the club in the Premier league, which he has done. The fact he took us to European football will have earned him some credit with the board.

What most fans are asking for is the equivalent of a person being hired as a sales manager with minimum KPIs tied into his contract, only for him to hit those targets at the end of the year then be sacked because he had the equivalent of a bad day at the office early in the next year.

As for the number of wins in a calendar year, or whatever way people want to frame it, that doesn't matter. It's where we finish in the league that matters. Teams below us may have had a better run over a pre-determined period of time (10 games, 15 games, 20 games) but if they finished below us in the league it doesn't matter.

Alexander will be sacked if it looks unlikely he'll manage to secure us 10th place at minimum this season. We won't know how likely that is until around October or November, which is when I think the decision will be made.

If we're sitting 9th or 10th and looking terrible he'll be gone and a new man in by January. If we're sitting 7th or even 8th and there's a bit of distance between ourselves and the teams in 10th and below then I think he'll be given the rest of the season.

And for clarity, this isn't me saying what I want to happen. This is how I see it playing out.

[David]

2 hours ago, Lobey_Dosser said:

The lack of preparation for our European adventure has been unforgivable. The one bounce game and friendly before the first leg smacked of arrogance, no friendly between legs is beyond belief. Embarrassment aside, this has cost us a helluva lot of money. 

This is a point I've seen mentioned a few times. 

First of all, I don't think the manager is responsible for organising friendly games pre-season. That responsibility sits with other departments in the football club I'd think. He'll have an input, sure, but he isn't making those games happen. And I doubt the club were like "How about games against X,Y, and Z, Graham?" only for him to say "nah, it's cool. It's only an Irish side we're playing in Europe."

Also, there's been talk of games being organised then cancelled for reasons outwith our control by our potential opponents. Obviously we couldn't organise any games at Fir Park, so I think we were relying on some away games, which didn't happen. 

The pre-season hasn't gone according to plan by the looks of it, but I'm not sure that the manager is to blame there. He's to blame for many other things though.

[Lobey_Dosser]

8 minutes ago, David said:

This is a point I've seen mentioned a few times. 

First of all, I don't think the manager is responsible for organising friendly games pre-season. That responsibility sits with other departments in the football club I'd think. He'll have an input, sure, but he isn't making those games happen. And I doubt the club were like "How about games against X,Y, and Z, Graham?" only for him to say "nah, it's cool. It's only an Irish side we're playing in Europe."

Also, there's been talk of games being organised then cancelled for reasons outwith our control by our potential opponents. Obviously we couldn't organise any games at Fir Park, so I think we were relying on some away games, which didn't happen. 

The pre-season hasn't gone according to plan by the looks of it, but I'm not sure that the manager is to blame there. He's to blame for many other things though.

Time will tell on that one. Alexander dictated that we went to Austria, I’m pretty sure he’ll have influenced the number of friendlies we scheduled. It’s obviously not straightforward with the new pitch and the league cup congestion but I expect the club could have organised an away trip or two if the manager wanted it. The absence of a game between both legs needs explaining. 

[David]

1 minute ago, Lobey_Dosser said:

Time will tell on that one. Alexander dictated that we went to Austria, I’m pretty sure he’ll have influenced the number of friendlies we scheduled. It’s obviously not straightforward with the new pitch and the league cup congestion but I expect the club could have organised an away trip or two if the manager wanted it. The absence of a game between both legs needs explaining. 

That's the thing, I think we did organise some games only for them to be cancelled. That's what I've picked up on anyway. Could be wrong, but I don't think the manager would actively not want games under our belt. 

[Yabba's Turd]

I like the confidence that we'll be capable of reaching 10th, I think it's a toss up between us and St Johnstone for relegation, I remember a season, mid 80's we were honking under Bobby Watson and sank like a stone, this feels very similar.

[David]

2 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said:

I like the confidence that we'll be capable of reaching 10th, I think it's a toss up between us and St Johnstone for relegation, I remember a season, mid 80's we were honking under Bobby Watson and sank like a stone, this feels very similar.

At this point it wouldn't surprise me. Unless things change drastically it'll be a long, hard season.

Although I think St Mirren are going to be involved in the relegation battle too.

[Yabba's Turd]

6 minutes ago, David said:

At this point it wouldn't surprise me. Unless things change drastically it'll be a long, hard season.

Although I think St Mirren are going to be involved in the relegation battle too.

It's only a battle if you can fight, we're rotten, outside a few draws I don't see many more points coming our way if we don't vastly improve.

[Big Stall]

Get him out now, there is still time for a new guy to bring in at least a couple of fresh faces and he can have the full season to make things work. GA is going to get sacked sometime in the next 6 months so may as well do it now and limit the damage.

[Well Well]

If the manager continues to put the players out and play in a fashion where they seem to have no clue what they are doing I can see cricket scores when we play the Old Firm, potential record goals against.

I dread to think what that defence would look like without Lamie already this season. I lost count of the amount of times he had to come out and cover for Carroll it was criminal the amount of space he leaves in behind. He makes absolutely no attempt to fill back in quickly and saunters back to his position. I really hope he is binned asap.

Mugabi seems to have a confidence issue just now but he can do some half decent defending as long as he has someone covering in behind due to his inherent lapses (which was something that Lamie was prone for but seems mostly to have cut out his game). I would love Max Johnstone to play at right back he has pace to burn up and down that flank and can tackle. The guy never put a foot wrong in the Thistle game and has since been dumped in favour of McGinn who everyone can see is struggling for pace. Sol and Ojala now appear no more than squad players.

I never bought into the Maguire hype (two footed player my arse) and think he really struggled. Then again what is his role?..ball winning midfielder taking over the mantle of Allan Campbell or is that Slattery role who seems to have went backwards in his ability from what I can see so far. Can Cornelius do it? ( I don't buy into all this 'he is one' of us patter) another one like Tierney who badly needs work in the gym as they both continually lose those battles in midfield against stronger players to which at least Maguire can match. I have no idea what Goss and Spittall roles are in midfield? As for Morris I will give him the benefit of the doubt just now until he settles but he needs to realise he cant spend all day on the ball and his thinking has to be a lot quicker as he was badly found out dithering in every game so far.

Fitness levels appear to be absolutely woeful with players fading badly at times.

We are screaming out for a leader on that park as not one player is stepping up so far and this was glaring last season as well.  The players appear to lack confidence in the style of play and tactics however anyone who questions the law according to GA appears to be side-lined quickly (Slattery/O'Donnell?) quelling any dissent or just up and leaving (Woolery).

Up front we have Van Veen, badly lacks fitness and appears to be carrying an injury of some sort or is just badly lacking match sharpness. I don't think we can rely on him solely for goals this season. Efford and Shields dont chip in anywhere near enough goals wise and don't appear to be a threat to any defences. Mahon hasnt seen a minute run out yet and I have no idea what he can bring to the squad.

When pundits (Craigan) start openly criticising the manager, his choice of signings and his tactics which all seem eye bleedingly obvious for a long time on live TV surely someone at Director level has to be asking questions. GA can't bench the directors.

The directors need to keep a weather eye on the fans because if they start protesting and staying away from games then that essential money they bring into the club dries up and I have yet to see many manager's survive when the fans protests start.

Can we also have anyone but the manager do the pre and post game interviews as I feel completely deflated after listening to his absolutely awful commentary. Thank god I am at least spared his team talks as he seems to demotivate everyone around him.

[eddiemunster]

Fuck him right the fuck off.

[GazzyB]

Thought he would be gone by now to be honest, worrying that he still hasn’t been sacked. 

[steelman1991]

46 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

Thought he would be gone by now to be honest, worrying that he still hasn’t been sacked. 

Agreed I keep refreshing the page, hoping that he's gone - eiher sacked or resigned.

[Yorkyred]

49 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

Thought he would be gone by now to be honest, worrying that he still hasn’t been sacked. 

I’m surprised so many people are expecting him sacked today. I still think the time to do that was the end of last season, not giving someone the summer and allowing him to sign players only to then sack him before a ball had been kicked in anger in the league. For me you either get rid of a manager end of a season and if not they get a few league games. It’s not as though the form was good from December onwards.

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Well Well said:

potential record goals against.

That a brave quote that could come back to haunt you. I would imagine the record now is pretty high.

[Yodo]

10 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I’m surprised so many people are expecting him sacked today. I still think the time to do that was the end of last season, not giving someone the summer and allowing him to sign players only to then sack him before a ball had been kicked in anger in the league. For me you either get rid of a manager end of a season and if not they get a few league games. It’s not as though the form was good from December onwards.

what I do admire is your loyalty 

[Walker86]

a

[joewarkfanclub]

4 hours ago, David said:

His contract is likely structured to include a number of factors, but I'd imagine one of them is keeping the club in the Premier league, which he has done. The fact he took us to European football will have earned him some credit with the board.

What most fans are asking for is the equivalent of a person being hired as a sales manager with minimum KPIs tied into his contract, only for him to hit those targets at the end of the year then be sacked because he had the equivalent of a bad day at the office early in the next year.

As for the number of wins in a calendar year, or whatever way people want to frame it, that doesn't matter. It's where we finish in the league that matters. Teams below us may have had a better run over a pre-determined period of time (10 games, 15 games, 20 games) but if they finished below us in the league it doesn't matter.

Alexander will be sacked if it looks unlikely he'll manage to secure us 10th place at minimum this season. We won't know how likely that is until around October or November, which is when I think the decision will be made.

If we're sitting 9th or 10th and looking terrible he'll be gone and a new man in by January. If we're sitting 7th or even 8th and there's a bit of distance between ourselves and the teams in 10th and below then I think he'll be given the rest of the season.

And for clarity, this isn't me saying what I want to happen. This is how I see it playing out.

I was the same until last night. But such was the scale of our failure and the depth of the anger felt at the nature of it, I think the scales have tipped the balance. Sunday is a must win, or at least a must not lose and see some sort of reaction / performance, otherwise the first home game will be a hate fest, particualrly given the level of opposition (direct competitors) and the personal connection between our club and theirs. That shouldnt matter as 3 points are 3 points, but we Ll know football doesnt work like that.

[Andy H]

Read unconfirmed rumours of a board meeting and the Presser has been cancelled.   We can but hope

[dennyc]

5 hours ago, David said:

His contract is likely structured to include a number of factors, but I'd imagine one of them is keeping the club in the Premier league, which he has done. The fact he took us to European football will have earned him some credit with the board.

What most fans are asking for is the equivalent of a person being hired as a sales manager with minimum KPIs tied into his contract, only for him to hit those targets at the end of the year then be sacked because he had the equivalent of a bad day at the office early in the next year.

As for the number of wins in a calendar year, or whatever way people want to frame it, that doesn't matter. It's where we finish in the league that matters. Teams below us may have had a better run over a pre-determined period of time (10 games, 15 games, 20 games) but if they finished below us in the league it doesn't matter.

Alexander will be sacked if it looks unlikely he'll manage to secure us 10th place at minimum this season. We won't know how likely that is until around October or November, which is when I think the decision will be made.

If we're sitting 9th or 10th and looking terrible he'll be gone and a new man in by January. If we're sitting 7th or even 8th and there's a bit of distance between ourselves and the teams in 10th and below then I think he'll be given the rest of the season.

And for clarity, this isn't me saying what I want to happen. This is how I see it playing out.

I agree with a lot of what you say in the above and with the comparisons you make.

However the Board also have a responsibility to intervene for the sake of the Club if they see a downturn which indicates to them that we are in freefall. Respectfully, I suggest that describes our performance throughout 2022. A 2022 which has seen no indication of improvement. I guess it is a case of should they act before we are in the mire, or wait until we are up to our armpits with little hope of escaping. Finances may well be a short term factor but I believe they must act now. For the long term sake of our Club.

[twistandshout1983]

I was sitting on the fence to see how things go, had my doubts in the second half of last season though definitely in the Alexander out brigade now,  I don’t think it is all down to him though if he stays in charge I can see a long struggle to avoid relegation this year 

Expect St Mirren to get a result at the weekend as I can sense Robbo will have St Mirren fired up for this game

[Well Well]

We really need fresh ideas and some confidence building with the players for the season ahead and sadly I do not think Alexander brings that. I hope there are wise heads amongst the directors.

[gilmour]

Rumours he’s been binned. 

[Yorkyred]

3 hours ago, Yodo said:

what I do admire is your loyalty 

This is not about Loyalty Yodo I’m simply stating my view on when I think it makes sense to sack a manager and when not. If you trust a manager after the last game of the season and allow him to sign new players. Why would you no longer trust him before a single league game has been played the following season ?

However I do think loyalty is incredibly important in life in general and hope I show it to everyone I care about.