2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[middleeastdave]

33 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I can't remember much about him except that he was fast and injured or unfit for a fair chunk of his loan. 

I know he didn’t play many games for us, I do remember him and I was impressed with him, unfortunately that was 2 years ago, so whether he has improved or the reverse I have no idea, but did sign for Huddersfield so must have impressed them.

[joewarkfanclub]

2 hours ago, El Grew said:

I know we can’t possibly have tabs on every player that may be available for a loan deal from England, but it’s been obvious for quite some time that we badly need a left-back.   From what I saw yesterday, Kilmarnock looked to have picked up a very decent young left-back on loan from Aston Villa in Ben Chrisene from their academy side who has represented England at under-15, under-16 and under-17 level.

Wonder what players our scouting genius is watching? 

Not sure.

But we just signed a left back on a 6 month loan.

Not sure of your point?

[joewarkfanclub]

Poor mans Gboly Ariyibi.

Not sure Id be that fussed about him coming back.

[pretzel]

 

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I can't remember much about him except that he was fast and injured or unfit for a fair chunk of his loan. 

Prob thinking of the diamond ear ring wearing Ndjoli that only played twice as a sub.

I would have loved to have seen Aaron's return but since he left us he has played 12 games, one all of last season. He was rapid, quite tricky and scored a nice goal against St Midden. He'd be a massive upgrade on the liked of Roberts\Woolery, but obviously his lack of game time is a worry.

[Kmcalpin]

3 hours ago, GrahamH said:

He signed for us on 31st January 2020 and the league was cut short on 13th March. That’s a period of 6 weeks where he had 7 appearances so I think you must be thinking of someone else.

On checking back you're right. He appeared 8 times for us, starting in all of them but only played the full 90 minutes on 3 occasions. 

[GrahamH]

11 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

On checking back you're right. He appeared 8 times for us, starting in all of them but only played the full 90 minutes on 3 occasions. 

Might have been worth checking before commenting.

[El Grew]

5 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Not sure.

But we just signed a left back on a 6 month loan.

Not sure of your point?

Spot on.  I’m not knocking the guy we’ve signed but compare the player we got to the one Kilmarnock got and be totally honest, which would you rather have?

Ours is 24, 5’8” and on loan from a League 1 club (Div. 3 in old money) We’re now the 6th club he’s been to in 6 seasons and this is his 4th loan deal. During those 6 seasons he’s only played 70 games.

Theirs is only 18, 6’0” and on loan from a Premiership club with whom he signed a new deal in January and Steven Gerrard rates him a good prospect. He’s just starting out on his football career.

The point I’m trying to make is that if we must sign players on loan then ensure their fitness for purpose first.  Stop bringing journeymen in heaven knows we’ve got more than enough already. Perhaps we should try  to foster relationships with Premiership clubs who would be willing to loan us their up and coming young players.

[Great Balls of Shire]

6 hours ago, El Grew said:

Spot on.  I’m not knocking the guy we’ve signed but compare the player we got to the one Kilmarnock got and be totally honest, which would you rather have?

Ours is 24, 5’8” and on loan from a League 1 club (Div. 3 in old money) We’re now the 6th club he’s been to in 6 seasons and this is his 4th loan deal. During those 6 seasons he’s only played 70 games.

Theirs is only 18, 6’0” and on loan from a Premiership club with whom he signed a new deal in January and Steven Gerrard rates him a good prospect. He’s just starting out on his football career.

The point I’m trying to make is that if we must sign players on loan then ensure their fitness for purpose first.  Stop bringing journeymen in heaven knows we’ve got more than enough already. Perhaps we should try  to foster relationships with Premiership clubs who would be willing to loan us their up and coming young players.

might be worth seeing the guy play before comparing him to a guy youve seen once, because you are knocking him, tho u say ur not...we needed a lb , weve signed a lb , give the boy a chance

he seems rated by the ipswich fans and will surely be better than current left backs

[MelvinBragg]

6 hours ago, El Grew said:

Spot on.  I’m not knocking the guy we’ve signed but compare the player we got to the one Kilmarnock got and be totally honest, which would you rather have?

Ours is 24, 5’8” and on loan from a League 1 club (Div. 3 in old money) We’re now the 6th club he’s been to in 6 seasons and this is his 4th loan deal. During those 6 seasons he’s only played 70 games.

Theirs is only 18, 6’0” and on loan from a Premiership club with whom he signed a new deal in January and Steven Gerrard rates him a good prospect. He’s just starting out on his football career.

The point I’m trying to make is that if we must sign players on loan then ensure their fitness for purpose first.  Stop bringing journeymen in heaven knows we’ve got more than enough already. Perhaps we should try  to foster relationships with Premiership clubs who would be willing to loan us their up and coming young players.

Stephen Cosgrove and Liam Grimshaw were highly rated prospects at Manchester United. John Hendry was well thought of at Spurs. Who was the winger we got from West Ham that never saw the light of day, Belic? Not to mention Stephen Hendrie... Point I'm making is that it doesn't matter which club you sign players from, it doesn't guarantee success. Where did we sign Moult and Aldred from..?

[numpty]

6 hours ago, El Grew said:

The point I’m trying to make is that if we must sign players on loan then ensure their fitness for purpose first.  Stop bringing journeymen in heaven knows we’ve got more than enough already. Perhaps we should try  to foster relationships with Premiership clubs who would be willing to loan us their up and coming young players.

We've had a fair few youth internationalists on loan from England over the years. How many of them do you remember making any impression at all?

[mfc]

That killie left back looked decent enough but he couldn't have asked for better opponent to be up against,shields did nothing in an attacking sense and didn't track back once,the boy will have much harder games than that.

[ppower]

25 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

Stephen Cosgrove and Liam Grimshaw were highly rated prospects at Manchester United. John Hendry was well thought of at Spurs. Who was the winger we got from West Ham that never saw the light of day, Belic? Not to mention Stephen Hendrie... Point I'm making is that it doesn't matter which club you sign players from, it doesn't guarantee success. Where did we sign Moult and Aldred from..?

Aye and Slattery was rated at Southampton and God knows why. No better than Grimshaw. He is nearly 24 and only played 46  games and 31 are for us. Also Moult and Aldred were playing regularly and were at least match fit and not prone to injury. Like McInstry people are saying why is he not playing. It's obvious he is not fit enough. Hasn't even made the bench. If I am wrong with that then no doubt someone will correct  me. First thing any club does with a new signing is test their fitness to actually play. Play an unfit player and he will get injured.

[steelboy]

Slattery has played more good passes this season than Grimmy managed over 6 years or however long he was here. Grimshaw will be lucky to get a club in the National League North. 

Aarons had zero end product when he was here previously and has barely kicked a ball in the two and a half years since he was here. If he's our best option then we are in trouble. 

 

[Well Well]

9 minutes ago, ppower said:

Aye and Slattery was rated at Southampton and God knows why. No better than Grimshaw. He is nearly 24 and only played 46  games and 31 are for us. Also Moult and Aldred were playing regularly and were at least match fit and not prone to injury. Like McInstry people are saying why is he not playing. It's obvious he is not fit enough. Hasn't even made the bench. If I am wrong with that then no doubt someone will correct  me. First thing any club does with a new signing is test their fitness to actually play. Play an unfit player and he will get injured.

McKinstry was injured, picked up in training . He was not included as a precautionary measure. He will feature again this week

[Richie]

I don't understand the Slattery hate and comparisons to Grimshaw.
He is relatively composed on the ball and very good at winning free kicks, which keeps possession and relieves pressure etc.
He does try the risky/killer ball a lot and granted the success rate of that can be frustrating at times, but it only takes the odd one to come off and you're in on goal.
I far prefer a player who will try that sort of thing.
Even if it doesn't come off, it gives the opposition something else to thing about in terms of where to cover/track etc.
Its just developing the game awareness to know when/when not to try it.



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[numpty]

1 hour ago, ppower said:

Like McInstry people are saying why is he not playing. It's obvious he is not fit enough. Hasn't even made the bench.

He was on the bench for the Livingston game.

[joewarkfanclub]

2 hours ago, ppower said:

Aye and Slattery was rated at Southampton and God knows why. No better than Grimshaw. 

Thats just not true.

[wellsince75]

Grimmie v's Slattery is for me an odd comparison. If you put them both together you'd have one hell of a player.

Grimmie worked his socks off and gave it all , he was limited, poor first touch and struggled to find a team mate. 
Slattery has decent touch and able to play the easy pass.  For me he can be a bit lazy and not track back, pick up his man.

Overall very different players - both with limits, hence not being with a bigger club.   

Slattery like Goss both need others around them and get caught out with the traditional 4-3-3.  Once we've got a few more players in be interesting to see what shape/formations we can leverage to get the most out of them.  

[Spit_It_Out]

I do think we are missing a Campbell type player and Maguire is not the answer he has been a major let down for me been very very poor.

If Slattery could tackle he would be a fantastic player but he comes across pretty lazy at times.

Grimmy sadly got a free pass due to this cult status among fans bang average would be flattering him.

If he gets a National League team that be a major win for him.

[weeyin]

Maguire is a completely different kind of player to Campbell, so if the expectation was he could replace him, then disappointment was inevitable.

As I've said before, the reason we have an academy is so we can produce a quality of player we couldn't afford to buy. Turnbull and Campbell are those types of player.

[Welldaft Mk1]

35 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Maguire is a completely different kind of player to Campbell, so if the expectation was he could replace him, then disappointment was inevitable.

As I've said before, the reason we have an academy is so we can produce a quality of player we couldn't afford to buy. Turnbull and Campbell are those types of player.

Yes he is. He is a much poorer player. He gets a lot of support because he was an Academy kid. I like him but I don’t think he is top flight quality. And nothing I have seen in any of his many performances dissuades me of that notion. He has had a couple of good appearances but the majority he does not offer a great deal. Sideways and back passes and long shots that are slow and off target mostly. Would  love him to kick on but if he has not done so as of yet then…….to me Cornelius offers more in midfield. 

[gaz7]

34 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

Yes he is. He is a much poorer player. He gets a lot of support because he was an Academy kid. I like him but I don’t think he is top flight quality. And nothing I have seen in any of his many performances dissuades me of that notion. He has had a couple of good appearances but the majority he does not offer a great deal. Sideways and back passes and long shots that are slow and off target mostly. Would  love him to kick on but if he has not done so as of yet then…….to me Cornelius offers more in midfield. 

I agree he is not campbell level and I have been disappointed he has not progressed as well as likely himself was hoping for. I do feel there is a player in there somewhere but I can't fathom out his best position.  Too slow in midfield. Not physical enough for centre back. Usually when that happens last hope is fullback but we have 2 international caps in squad so I feel he will most likely be a squad player which I would be happy enough with as he seems a good pro.

As for a lot of support because he's an academy kid. I get that and so we should give our own a bit more leeway. Cornelius gets away with more than others too as will mckinstry and others that get brought into team also

[joewarkfanclub]

For me Cornelius and Maguire are the kind of players that will do the hard graft in midfield to allow players like Goss Slattery and Spittal to go and play. I agree that at the moment Cornelius seems to have a little bit more about him, but Maguire is still recovering from a bad injury, so we might not see the best of him for a bit yet. Before he got injured he looked to me as if he was getting there and the timing was very unfortunate for him. I didnt thknk it was any coincidence that our form fell off a cliff edge round about that time.  I think Stevie Hammell is still wrestling with how to get the best out of the players we have, but there is no doubt a few additikns of better quality would certainly help him. Hopefully we have a left back that we can rely on now until the end of the season. But another striker and a decent wide player would be beneficial, albeit I hope McKinstry can fill that role. I dont see us getting in another centre half unless we are able to move one or two on.

[wellsince75]

8 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

For me Cornelius and Maguire are the kind of players that will do the hard graft in midfield to allow players like Goss Slattery and Spittal to go and play. I agree that at the moment Cornelius seems to have a little bit more about him, but Maguire is still recovering from a bad injury, so we might not see the best of him for a bit yet. Before he got injured he looked to me as if he was getting there and the timing was very unfortunate for him. I didnt thknk it was any coincidence that our form fell off a cliff edge round about that time.  I think Stevie Hammell is still wrestling with how to get the best out of the players we have, but there is no doubt a few additikns of better quality would certainly help him. Hopefully we have a left back that we can rely on now until the end of the season. But another striker and a decent wide player would be beneficial, albeit I hope McKinstry can fill that role. I dont see us getting in another centre half unless we are able to move one or two on.

Other than being a local lad who try's his best I'm less than sold on Maguire.  After 4-5 seasons he's convinced me he'll be a good player in a lower league team.  I'm surprised we've kept with him as long as we have.

McKinstry I'm hoping will light us up , the exact type of player we should be trying to bring in. Someone who ultimately will play at a higher level but needs experience.   Icing on the cake that he came via our youth system.   A couple more quality loan signings will be warmly welcomed. 

I do think we need much better centre halves than we have and completely agree that several players need to be moved on. Think we have 9-10 first team defenders on our books, not that many worth keeping. 

[Kmcalpin]

8 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Other than being a local lad who try's his best I'm less than sold on Maguire.  After 4-5 seasons he's convinced me he'll be a good player in a lower league team.  I'm surprised we've kept with him as long as we have.

McKinstry I'm hoping will light us up , the exact type of player we should be trying to bring in. Someone who ultimately will play at a higher level but needs experience.   Icing on the cake that he came via our youth system.   A couple more quality loan signings will be warmly welcomed. 

I do think we need much better centre halves than we have and completely agree that several players need to be moved on. Think we have 9-10 first team defenders on our books, not that many worth keeping. 

Pretty much my take. Barry Maguire is a hard working honest lad and thats all you can ask. However, I think he's more suited to the Championship or League 1.