2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[ohwulliewullie]

3 hours ago, weeyin said:

I don't even know why PCAs exist.

If you want someone in January, pay for them and take them in January.

If you want them when their contract expires. sign them after their contract expires

The rest is just unnecessary complication.

I don’t know the reasons for PCAs coming into existence in the first place, but I can see an argument for them in a league like Scotland with wages generally a lot more modest than elsewhere. If a player’s contract is up in the summer, it gives them a bit of time to sort out their options and make a decision.
 

I can imagine that if you’re approaching becoming out of contract, players would get very nervous towards the end of the season with nothing sorted… and the possibility of getting injured… medical bills and rehab to cover… with nothing coming in to pay your mortgage etc. 

[El Grew]

As others have posted I can’t argue with the release of the players on the club’s list.  However I think there are still a few players left who IMO have shown that they’re not good enough to be playing at Premiership level: 

Mugabi (Contracted to May 2022)

Carroll (Contracted to May 2023)

Ojala (Contracted to May 2023)

Goss (Contracted to May 2023)

McGinley (Contracted to May 2024)

Slattery (Contracted to May 2024)

I appreciate that they are still under contract but they really do need to be gradually moved out.

I also think that the manager has questions to answer surrounding his signing of Jordan Roberts and the loan signings of Liam Shaw and Victor Nirennold.  Between them they only started 12 games and contributed the square root of f*ck all.

[weeyin]

25 minutes ago, ohwulliewullie said:

I don’t know the reasons for PCAs coming into existence in the first place, but I can see an argument for them in a league like Scotland with wages generally a lot more modest than elsewhere. If a player’s contract is up in the summer, it gives them a bit of time to sort out their options and make a decision.
 

I can imagine that if you’re approaching becoming out of contract, players would get very nervous towards the end of the season with nothing sorted… and the possibility of getting injured… medical bills and rehab to cover… with nothing coming in to pay your mortgage etc. 

Wouldn't the players that sign PCAs just get snapped up at the end of the season by the same teams anyway?

[mfc]

The defence is definitely a big concern,other than lamie the rest are under contract and unless the plan is to move some on and it actually happens then there will be little scope to try and improve the defence.hopefully we can add a bit of quality and not just add numbers like we had to do this season due to covid.

[joewarkfanclub]

17 minutes ago, El Grew said:

As others have posted I can’t argue with the release of the players on the club’s list.  However I think there are still a few players left who IMO have shown that they’re not good enough to be playing at Premiership level: 

Mugabi (Contracted to May 2022)

Carroll (Contracted to May 2023)

Ojala (Contracted to May 2023)

Goss (Contracted to May 2023)

McGinley (Contracted to May 2024)

Slattery (Contracted to May 2024)

I appreciate that they are still under contract but they really do need to be gradually moved out.

I also think that the manager has questions to answer surrounding his signing of Jordan Roberts and the loan signings of Liam Shaw and Victor Nirennold.  Between them they only started 12 games and contributed the square root of f*ck all.

Other than KVV who is very inconsistent, Slattery is the best footballer at the club....

[Yorkyred]

I think Lamie is getting slightly talked up. Being the best of a very poor bunch does not automatically make you a good player. He’s very average at best in my view.

[grizzlyg]

3 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I think Lamie is getting slightly talked up. Being the best of a very poor bunch does not automatically make you a good player. He’s very average at best in my view.

Compared to ojala... Johansen and mugabi he is definitely better. I would definitely keep him

[mfc]

11 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Compared to ojala... Johansen and mugabi he is definitely better. I would definitely keep him

Ojala started off really well for us but after getting injured at pittodrie and being out for a while he hasn't looked the same,he seems to be quite injury prone in his career and maybe this time has been an injury to many.i think Johansen also started well but since coming back from the winter break he has been been poor,maybe playing the number of games he did before joining us had caught up with him.im hoping that after the summer break they might offer us something going forward.mugabi while having improved this season was starting to go backwards towards the end,the shuffling between centre half and right back isn't the answer.the defence needs some serious attention though as there's no way we can go into next season defending like we just did.

[wellsince75]

every defender in the team has deserved some criticism.  It can't help to chop and change as often as we do.  Get a settled back 4/5 in place. 

We need at least a very decent left back and ideally one very good central defender. 

[ohwulliewullie]

8 hours ago, weeyin said:

Wouldn't the players that sign PCAs just get snapped up at the end of the season by the same teams anyway?

Not necessarily… I’ll use the example of Liam Grimshaw. It’s January ‘22 and he’s out of contract at the end of the season. Even if MFC hasn’t formally told him that he won’t be offered a contract extension, the writing’s on the wall and it’s not looking good. At least with the existence of PCAs (and the ability to ‘legally’ talk to other clubs) he and his agent can see what other options are out there. Kilmarnock (say) are interested, and he signs a two year contract, to start when his MFC one ends. Security for him and his family. 
 

Same scenario without a PCA. There may well have been an informal conversation with Kilmarnock (as we all know that kind of thing happens), and they shake hands on a rough agreement. Grimshaw comes on during the last game of the season for a farewell to the fans, gets injured and is out for six months. Kilmarnock renege on the gentleman’s agreement and the player is stuffed.  
 

I’m speculating here, but in those circumstances I can see why it makes sense for PCAs to exist.

[Ya Bezzer!]

7 hours ago, mfc said:

Ojala started off really well for us but after getting injured at pittodrie and being out for a while he hasn't looked the same,he seems to be quite injury prone in his career and maybe this time has been an injury to many.i think Johansen also started well but since coming back from the winter break he has been been poor,maybe playing the number of games he did before joining us had caught up with him.im hoping that after the summer break they might offer us something going forward.mugabi while having improved this season was starting to go backwards towards the end,the shuffling between centre half and right back isn't the answer.the defence needs some serious attention though as there's no way we can go into next season defending like we just did.

Pretty much agree with that.

The full back issue is really big.  Carroll and O'Donnell are decent going forward but struggle defensively in a back four.  I've never really been convinced by us playing three at the back, the Hearts game being a good example, we were much better 2nd half when we switched back.  So what do you do?  It's hard to see a solution with the existing resources.

I'd be happy enough with Lamie and A. N. Other.

Mugabi is fine as a 'John Philliben' type fill in at the back for injuries and suspensions.

Ojala and Johansen both looked decent when they first arrived but have been injury prone and dodgy since then.  

In an ideal world I'd ditch McGinley and bring in a better defender at left back and bring in a strong central defender to partner Lamie - if he sticks around.

O'Donnell needs to do better as well.  He's a current international and should be a first pick but his form last season was all over the place, he made too many individual errors and I don't blame the manager for dropping him.  Big improvements needed from him.  I was enthusiastic about the signing but he's been a big disappointment for me.

 

[Yodo]

On 5/19/2022 at 10:58 AM, Kmcalpin said:

A link to the Blair Spittal rumour.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/sport/football/blair-spittal-wanted-motherwell-graham-27001308

If that’s the quality of our targets then heaven help us he’s a championship player at best 

[SteelmaninOZ]

Would take CK back. I think he really liked being here.

 

[Spiderpig]

3 minutes ago, Yodo said:

If that’s the quality of our targets then heaven help us he’s a championship player at best 

So who should we be targeting then thats got lots of premiership experience, plays well and is in our price range, feel free to share your wisdom

[El Grew]

11 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Other than KVV who is very inconsistent, Slattery is the best footballer at the club....

[Welldaft Mk1]

47 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

So who should we be targeting then thats got lots of premiership experience, plays well and is in our price range, feel free to share your wisdom

Quote

 

Big blow. I hope the club at least tried to convince him to stay.

To see him at Motherwell, or the like would be a real kick in the teeth. Genuinely hope he does well though, wherever he goes. 

 

Quote from Ross County fan above on P&B. No offence to the Spittal nay sayers such as Yodo but I would rather take the views of the fans of the team targeted player played for. 

Ross County have a similar or even bigger budget than we have. So if we are able to take one of their better players I am all for it. 

I will say it again like I do every season. Our budget dictates who and who we cannot go after and afford to buy. Spittal may well have other offers like Lamie but I would be happy if he ended up with us. Certianly on his day he would be better than the departed OHara and Donnelly imho. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

2 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

So who should we be targeting then thats got lots of premiership experience, plays well and is in our price range, feel free to share your wisdom

I doubt yodo coukd pick Spittal out in a line up, its what he does, even rumours are not good enough for him.

[Yodo]

3 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

So who should we be targeting then thats got lots of premiership experience, plays well and is in our price range, feel free to share your wisdom

Think we pay guys to do that I know there not very good at it but seems we are stuck wae them 

[Yodo]

58 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I doubt yodo coukd pick Spittal out in a line up, its what he does, even rumours are not good enough for him.

Think yer speaking for yerself there bud 

[Yorkyred]

4 hours ago, Yodo said:

If that’s the quality of our targets then heaven help us he’s a championship player at best 

To be fair on this one I’m not that far off you. He’s decent but that’s about it in my view.

[wellsince75]

signings are difficult - most of the time it's an underwhelming feeling - would really need to see a list of players we can afford - albeit that could be depressing.

Unless able to bring back one of our previous hero's it's often likely to feel shit.  Our best chance of having quality is brining them up through the youth system, 

[wellsince75]

13 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

I think Lamie is getting slightly talked up. Being the best of a very poor bunch does not automatically make you a good player. He’s very average at best in my view.

Agree - Lamie has too many brain farts during games. 90% solid but too often very lax and causes problems. 

I'd much rather bring in someone like McCart from StJohnstone who's out of contract.  Prob the type of player we can afford and has proven to be decent. 

[joewarkfanclub]

14 hours ago, mfc said:

Ojala started off really well for us but after getting injured at pittodrie and being out for a while he hasn't looked the same,he seems to be quite injury prone in his career and maybe this time has been an injury to many.i think Johansen also started well but since coming back from the winter break he has been been poor,maybe playing the number of games he did before joining us had caught up with him.im hoping that after the summer break they might offer us something going forward.mugabi while having improved this season was starting to go backwards towards the end,the shuffling between centre half and right back isn't the answer.the defence needs some serious attention though as there's no way we can go into next season defending like we just did.

I think there's a lot in that.

Be interesting to see how Ojala and Sol look next season after a proper rest and a good pre season.

The chopping and changing definitely doesnt help. Defenders need games together to develop an understanding and a consistency of performance.

Hopefully we can get some of that next season.

[joewarkfanclub]

5 hours ago, El Grew said:

Who in your opinion, are better?

[weeyin]

Every player at every level has brain farts.

When you're a keeper they are most obvious as they typically result in conceding a goal that people remember.

When you are a defender they are pretty obvious and can result in a goal that people remember.

When you are a midfielder they rarely result in a goal and people rarely remember.

When you are a striker you miss a scoring opportunity and people forget.

In recent Liverpool games I've seen Alexander-Arnold, Robertson and van Djik all have brain farts, but I wouldn't be against any of them in our defence.