2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[MelvinBragg]

11 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

This may be a little brutal, I don't believe Maguire is good enough. He's now 24 and played 50 games.  Personal view is he's  limited.  Not sold we should have renewed his contract. Think he'll end up being a decent championship player similar  to many young well starlets who didn't quite hit the mark. 

Dean though has a chance of making it. 21 and learning all the time, good prospect of becoming a decent player and for sure would benefit from someone like Davis talking him through games.

I disagree about Maguire. I think you have hit upon the reason for his not being as developed as other players of the same age when you mention the number of games he has played.  You need games at a good level to aid your development. Over the last few seasons under Robinson, he had McHugh, Gorrin and Donnelly ahead of him for his best position, players Robinson liked. I'd hazard a guess he has played as much under Alexander in one year (and he's been injured a spell) than under Robinson and he has improved. Since his injury against Hearts, we suddenly became a lot easier to play through. For me, he seems to know his limits and is less likely to abandon his defensive midfield position. 

On a general point about young players (and this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just a general thought), there is a tendency with young players coming through that if they're not the star of the team or likely to bring in a transfer fee to brand them "not good enough".  There's a place for squad players and to use Maguire as an example, if you don't think he's good enough to be a regular starter, is it not better having him on the bench than paying a signing on fee for a Lee Lucas, Craig Clay or another random player with no real affection for the club...

[grizzlyg]

2 hours ago, El Grew said:

Who is Cornelius Maguire? 

He was a famous English nobleman who was executed in 1646 for refusing to use commas in his sentences!!  Lol

[GazzyB]

Would take Davis in a heartbeat for a year, especially with some European games coming up.

[FirParkCornerExile]

14 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

This may be a little brutal, I don't believe Maguire is good enough. He's now 24 and played 50 games.  Personal view is he's  limited.  Not sold we should have renewed his contract. Think he'll end up being a decent championship player similar  to many young well starlets who didn't quite hit the mark. 

Dean though has a chance of making it. 21 and learning all the time, good prospect of becoming a decent player and for sure would benefit from someone like Davis talking him through games.

He reminds me of Stuart Carswell and pretty much same ability. Not convinced either. More than happy to be wrong.

[FirParkCornerExile]

13 hours ago, C&A not the shop said:

Normally I'd be opposed to a 37 year old coming in but you've got to think that if anyone can get that right it's Alexander.

Looking it up he played 130 games in the 3 seasons after he turned 37 (his birthday is in October so that's starting the season when he's 38 for most of it) 2 of those in the Championship and 1 in the Premier league down South. 

With the style of play GA favours Davis talents would be wasted , even if he was good enough.

[spudmfc]

On 5/21/2022 at 3:31 PM, steelboy said:

The worry with Lamie is that he might be one of those players that steps up his game when his contract is running out. Grimshaw mugged us twice by doing it. 

For a guy that signed a PCA  for dundee his attitude and commitment for us has been excellent,id keep him,cos u know wot we've got wi him. Look at gallacher n watt for example,both hung us out t dry

[spudmfc]

41 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

With the style of play GA favours Davis talents would be wasted , even if he was good enough.

I would agree wi u on that,previous post mentioned davie cooper working out no too bad,but remember he had that wank boyd n the brilliant young phil odonnell behind him,if GA can get a system t suit davis then by all means go for it,maguire holding slattery deano n tierney,all young fit guys with something t prove in and around davis pulling the strings,i think it could work

[mfc]

Lamie is staying according to the daily record

[FirParkCornerExile]

7 minutes ago, mfc said:

Lamie is staying according to the daily record

I'd be happy with that. No matter what anyone says ... He's better than what we have. Plus his form since coming back into the team can't be faulted. Sure he may have some errors in him but name a Motherwell player that doesn't.

[bobbybingo]

18 minutes ago, mfc said:

Lamie is staying according to the daily record

2 year deal? Glad he's staying.

[mfc]

8 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I'd be happy with that. No matter what anyone says ... He's better than what we have. Plus his form since coming back into the team can't be faulted. Sure he may have some errors in him but name a Motherwell player that doesn't.

I'm the same,I'll be happy if he's staying,hes developed into a solid dependable player for us after a shaky start.that will be all our first team defenders under contract for next season and giving how badly we have defended this season that is a bit of a concern,I really hope that were looking at moving a couple on so it will give us some scope to improve things at the back.

[dennyc]

29 minutes ago, mfc said:

I'm the same,I'll be happy if he's staying,hes developed into a solid dependable player for us after a shaky start.that will be all our first team defenders under contract for next season and giving how badly we have defended this season that is a bit of a concern,I really hope that were looking at moving a couple on so it will give us some scope to improve things at the back.

The defensive concerns are not purely down to the players concerned. In fact every one of them at times has shown they are half way decent. Played in their natural positions and not hung out to dry by a formation/tactics that sees midfield and them overrun, I think they can all do a reasonable job. Games at Utd, County and home to Hearts highlighted that. 
Not saying an upgrade or two would be a bad thing but I don’t agree the defence is as terrible as some are making out.

[AllyMax]

6 hours ago, El Grew said:

Who is Cornelius Maguire? 

He sounds like he'd be a great player.  Up there with other brilliantly named players of our past, like Abel Thermeus, Casper Sloth, Esteban Casagolda and Stevie Cowan.

[Winning by Name]

1 hour ago, spudmfc said:

I would agree wi u on that,previous post mentioned davie cooper working out no too bad,but remember he had that wank boyd n the brilliant young phil odonnell behind him,if GA can get a system t suit davis then by all means go for it,maguire holding slattery deano n tierney,all young fit guys with something t prove in and around davis pulling the strings,i think it could work

It was about Davie Cooper, Tom Boyd improved beyond all recognition after Cooper arrived and O'Donnell only played in the season we won the cup while Cooper had already started to make Arnott, Boyd and others into much better players. Davie Cooper was in a league of his own.

[FirParkCornerExile]

4 minutes ago, dennyc said:

The defensive concerns are not purely down to the players concerned. In fact every one of them at times has shown they are half way decent. Played in their natural positions and not hung out to dry by a formation/tactics that sees midfield and them overrun, I think they can all do a reasonable job. Games at Utd, County and home to Hearts highlighted that. 
Not saying an upgrade or two would be a bad thing but I don’t agree the defence is as terrible as some are making out.

I think I'd need to disagree in part. I agree if the manager picked players for their right position and played a decent formation we might see improvements. However for me OJala is quite simply awful .. slower than a week in the jail and positionally naive....Solholm I don't rate either however I think his inadequacies could possibly be lessened by strength along side him.

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

With the style of play GA favours Davis talents would be wasted , even if he was good enough.

Maybe I'm over optimistic, but I expect to see that style change next season.

I remember GA saying he originally tried to implement a style that was playing out short passes from the back and transitioning through the thirds - (aye, I said  "transitioning through the thirds") - but had to give up in that because the players couldn't handle it. Of course, I think he overcompensated and started to rely on Kelly's long ball distribution and we ended up at the other extreme.

Now he knows who can handle the tactics he wants to play and who couldn't cut it I'm hoping we see a marked difference.

As for Maguire, he's an academy trained, 2 footed midfielder that can pick a pass, tackle and has a decent shot. He's suffered a bit during Covid due to lack of U20/Reserve games when he's not been in the team, but I still think he's a player. In fact when we play 3 in mid, I still think Slattery, Goss and Maguire give us the best balance in there.

[weeyin]

4 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I think I'd need to disagree in part. I agree if the manager picked players for their right position and played a decent formation we might see improvements. However for me OJala is quite simply awful .. slower than a week in the jail and positionally naive....Solholm I don't rate either however I think his inadequacies could possibly be lessened by strength along side him.

You have to hope Ojala was carrying an injury in 2022, because I can't remember seeing another player who was that slow.

[bobbybingo]

9 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

However for me OJala is quite simply awful .. slower than a week in the jail and positionally naive.

Alexander obviously knows more than us, but I can't see what Ojala will offer us next season, even as cover. He could easily have been hooked early on in several games and moved with the ease of a guy waiting on a hip replacement. 

[bobbybingo]

8 minutes ago, weeyin said:

You have to hope Ojala was carrying an injury in 2022, because I can't remember seeing another player who was that slow.

His expression did literally look pained most of the time. 

[dennyc]

41 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I think I'd need to disagree in part. I agree if the manager picked players for their right position and played a decent formation we might see improvements. However for me OJala is quite simply awful .. slower than a week in the jail and positionally naive....Solholm I don't rate either however I think his inadequacies could possibly be lessened by strength along side him.

I agree Ojala  and Solholm were certainly poor after they came back from injury. Nobody can deny that. When he first came into the team Ojala formed a decent but short lived partnership with Solholm.  Ojala did the no nonsense defending and Solholm looked to be the more cultured of the two. I'm hoping a rest followed by a good pre season might restore both to the players they presented as on first appearing. Worth the try in my opinion unless those injuries are career ending.  But at present Lamie is my first choice central defender with Mugabi ahead of both Ojjala and Solholm. Hopefully we stick with three at the back to accommodate wingbacks and then we can judge each of our much criticised defenders in a formation that matched their strengths. 

By all means upgrade those positions if the opportunity arises, but I would prioritise finding some decent midfielders and and at least one more above average forward. And as many have said, better quality less numbers.

[stv]

2 hours ago, AllyMax said:

He sounds like he'd be a great player.  Up there with other brilliantly named players of our past, like Abel Thermeus, Casper Sloth, Esteban Casagolda and Stevie Cowan.

Still got the Stevie Cowan appreciation society badge somewhere

[steelman1991]

3 minutes ago, stv said:

Still got the Stevie Cowan appreciation society badge somewhere

"He's fat, He's round, He's worth a million pounds - Stevie Cowan"

[wellsince75]

48 minutes ago, steelman1991 said:

"He's fat, He's round, He's worth a million pounds - Stevie Cowan"

That’s one of my favourite chants of all time .

only trumped by

’theres only one joe McLeod ……….fan”

[Hope Springs]

Happy to learn that Ricki Lamie has signed up for two more years. He has more than earned it with his goals in the run in. 
As for the argument that he was the best of a poor defence, I would prefer to think of it as being a good player who would actually be better if the players around him were doing their job as well as him. 

[Richie]

Aye, Lamie has shown he can be useful.

On Maguire, I'm also in the 'quite like him' camp.
He's quite tidy and relatively composed on the ball.
Not going to control a midfield himself, but there's a decent enough player in there.

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