2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, Stuwell2 said:

With the amount of time you have been here and the number of posts you’ve made, you should know to be very specific and not the slightest vague - tut, tut, tut.

I know. Has wee yin taught me nothing!

[Coatsy]

Games Played 

Van Veen 340
Efford         125
Woolery     263
Shields        140

 

 

[AllyMax]

22 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

Arthur Gnahoua, anyone heard that he’s reported to have signed?

Can play anywhere across the front three.....

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Bailey Rice to Rangers confirmed

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2022/06/30/rice-leaves-to-join-rangers/

[MJC]

27 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

Bailey Rice to Rangers confirmed

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2022/06/30/rice-leaves-to-join-rangers/

So yet another youngster who’s came through our academy moves on without playing a first team match. It’s scunnering enough when our young talent moves on after less than a season playing for us but when they leave before getting anywhere near the first team it is just so frustrating.

[weeyin]

1 minute ago, MJC_mkII said:

So yet another youngster who’s came through our academy moves on without playing a first team match. It’s scunnering enough when our young talent moves on after less than a season playing for us but when they leave before getting anywhere near the first team it is just so frustrating.

You have to wonder what strategy Rangers use to attract these signings. It can't be "look at all the youngsters we've signed that have gone on to prosper (or even make an appearance) in our first team".

Of course I know it's money and OF loylaty, but you'd hope that whoever is advising the kids would have the sense to see that it's always the youngsters that rack up first team games with us that are the ones who succeed.

[DunnyMFC]

I've always wondered how teams outside the OF managed to get these promising players in the 1st place. Is it because there is a limit of players teams can put through their academy? or is just them slipping through the net?

It is frustrating seeing us lose talent before they kick a ball.

[Winning by Name]

1 hour ago, DunnyMFC said:

I've always wondered how teams outside the OF managed to get these promising players in the 1st place. Is it because there is a limit of players teams can put through their academy? or is just them slipping through the net?

It is frustrating seeing us lose talent before they kick a ball.

The OF don't need a net, they just pick kids up from the likes of us when they are getting near 16 and offer them plenty of dosh. I think they have signed our lad, a boy from Inverness and another from Thistle all very recently.

[Spiderpig]

46 minutes ago, Winning by Name said:

The OF don't need a net, they just pick kids up from the likes of us when they are getting near 16 and offer them plenty of dosh. I think they have signed our lad, a boy from Inverness and another from Thistle all very recently.

The lads get their heads turned by parents and/or agents into signing for a big club, more money etc, but the reality is most of them will never be heard of again, they will take the cash and bragging rights as a Rangers / Celtic or whatever player etc for a  few years and never get near the 1st team , if they are lucky they will get farmed out on loan before being released.

[stv]

Hope he disappears without a trace , what a complete waste of time training him up . 

[weeyin]

4 hours ago, DunnyMFC said:

I've always wondered how teams outside the OF managed to get these promising players in the 1st place. Is it because there is a limit of players teams can put through their academy? or is just them slipping through the net?

Part of it is risk/reward.  It's very difficult to tell how well very young players are going to develop regardless of their talent. They develop at different speeds and most will stop progressing (or progressing enough) to make the grade.

If you are a bigger club like the OF (or a massive club an EPL team) it's much more cost effective to skip the 5 or 10 years time/money/effort developing kids and just take them off the smaller clubs when they continue to show potential at 16 or 17.

[Kmcalpin]

4 hours ago, weeyin said:

You have to wonder what strategy Rangers use to attract these signings. It can't be "look at all the youngsters we've signed that have gone on to prosper (or even make an appearance) in our first team".

Of course I know it's money and OF loylaty, but you'd hope that whoever is advising the kids would have the sense to see that it's always the youngsters that rack up first team games with us that are the ones who succeed.

In answer to your first point........ money, and in many cases thats quite enough.

Your second point - often its parents' blind adulation of one half of the gruesome twosome thats the sole basis of "advice"......Pearo anyone? 

As for Bailey Rice, we are due compensation albeit very limited. I'm no expert and the rules are complex, but I believe that he can't sign professional forms with any club until he turns 16.  As he's only 15 its in our club's interest to strike some kind of deal now when we still can. Maybe someone more familar with the rules can explain this.  Very disappointing but thats the way it is. The big boy always triumphs over the wee lad. 

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

This has got to be the dullest close season on record. Every day goes by not a thing in the papers about us. I sincerely hope there plenty happening in private cos if you relied on the media / press youd think wed gone outta business LOL

[MJC]

It’s certainly been dull and also highly concerning with the lack of signings, especially those of an attacking nature. I get this horrible feeling that GA is more or less happy with what we’ve got, so expect another season of eye bleeding football and dreadful form. This time though we don’t have Tony Watt to bail us out for half a season so unless we surpass the luck we got last year we could well be in serious relegation trouble in 22/23.

[fizoxy]

Burrows said they were working on some things, so I don't think it's a case of GA being happy with what we have, but it's possible we're either waiting on specific people, or we're losing out to other teams.

I think we definitely need a few more in, but I don't think our squad is bad enough that we need to panic

[Spit_It_Out]

This is the best transfer window we have ever had!Why you ask?Because we are not rebuilding a whole bloody team as per and the players will know each others style of play from the off.Hence why the 3 year contracts we were dishing out and I suspect it will be same next year aswell.

More than happy Spittal and McGinn good solid SPL players we do have the all we need is to add a left back(which we won't) and front additions which I think we will.

 

 

 

[GazzyB]

4 hours ago, stv said:

Hope he disappears without a trace , what a complete waste of time training him up . 

“I hope a sixteen year old boy who I had never even heard of up until today goes on to have a terrible career because he doesn’t play for my team any more.”

 

Wise up man. 

[steelboy]

I watched the first two Scotland games at the u17 Euros and out of the two Lennon Miller was far more impressive than Rice. They were both 15 playing against older boys and Rice showed good touches but struggled badly with the pace of the game. In the first game Miller came on at half time and almost dragged Scotland back into it getting an assist and creating  a few other good chances. In the second he sat in front of the defence and was effective until he went off injured. 

Given the fact that we release boys every year without anyone blinking an eye then we just need to accept Rice or others choosing to leave as the flipside of that. 

[David]

17 hours ago, weeyin said:

You have to wonder what strategy Rangers use to attract these signings. It can't be "look at all the youngsters we've signed that have gone on to prosper (or even make an appearance) in our first team".

Of course I know it's money and OF loylaty, but you'd hope that whoever is advising the kids would have the sense to see that it's always the youngsters that rack up first team games with us that are the ones who succeed.

It's a catch 22 situation really. We can say that it's best for a player to stay at Motherwell and look to progress to the first team, but what if that doesn't happen for whatever reason? Injury, loss of form, simply not being good enough.

The example a lot of fans use is Jake Hastie, claiming his move to Rangers wasn't a good move for him. I think his level of performance after that short purple patch for us shows he absolutely made the correct decision.

If he'd stayed at Motherwell he'd likely have shown the kind of form he did when he returned, which would have seen him slide down the pecking order and eventually get released. I don't think him not signing for Rangers would have seen him suddenly become a quality player who then won a big move a few years later.

As things stand, he's playing in League Two. The only difference is he's doing so with a relatively healthy bank balance from his Rangers deal, so he's come out a winner in that regard.

[Kmcalpin]

11 hours ago, MJC_mkII said:

It’s certainly been dull and also highly concerning with the lack of signings, especially those of an attacking nature. I get this horrible feeling that GA is more or less happy with what we’ve got, so expect another season of eye bleeding football and dreadful form. This time though we don’t have Tony Watt to bail us out for half a season so unless we surpass the luck we got last year we could well be in serious relegation trouble in 22/23.

Not sure about that. We don't want a complete rebuild every season as that disrupts continuity as new players take time to settle.  That said, every team needs to bring in some fresh faces during the close season. From last season's squad I reckon we need about 4/5 signings quantity wise (we already have 2 of them).  The window has a long way to run and its best to take time to get the right men. Maybe you're hankering after the Robinson approach of getting a raft of new acquisitions in the door very early, now evident in Paisley. But they the right ones? 

[mfc]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Not sure about that. We don't want a complete rebuild every season as that disrupts continuity as new players take time to settle.  That said, every team needs to bring in some fresh faces during the close season. From last season's squad I reckon we need about 4/5 signings quantity wise (we already have 2 of them).  The window has a long way to run and its best to take time to get the right men. Maybe you're hankering after the Robinson approach of getting a raft of new acquisitions in the door very early, now evident in Paisley. But they the right ones? 

I totally agree,I'm glad we're not having to do a total rebuild this time and bringing in a new player every other day.this summer was always going to be quieter than most,I think we have brought in two solid players in mcginn and spittal and if we can get add the right quality in whoever else we bring in we will be just fine again this season.i do think we need to add two forward players that are better than shields and efford,I don't fancy the idea of relying on both of those as starters every week.im not sure we will be adding any more defenders unless someone leaves so let's hope there's some hard work being done over pre season to make us a lot more solid at the back.

[spudmfc]

I hear alot of talk abour more forwards...we have Tierney n efford, granted the jury is out on efford,but remember where they've come from and when,moving mid season n trying t get up to speed at a higher level than where they played previously must b tough.a full pre season behind them n this year we may see the best of them,me personally i like tierney alot,id play him in a 10 role,was far too big a gap between our strikers n midfield n ross played that role great when he came on against hearts in 2nd last game when we were getting over run in the middle of the park,i dont know if GA can accommodate that in his system that he likes/uses,it wouldnt take too much tinkering with wot we have cos t b fair we were pretty gash  last year n i dont think it was mainly down t the players,i think the system was all wrong

[Onthefringes]

46 minutes ago, spudmfc said:

I hear alot of talk abour more forwards...we have Tierney n efford, granted the jury is out on efford,but remember where they've come from and when,moving mid season n trying t get up to speed at a higher level than where they played previously must b tough.a full pre season behind them n this year we may see the best of them,me personally i like tierney alot,id play him in a 10 role,was far too big a gap between our strikers n midfield n ross played that role great when he came on against hearts in 2nd last game when we were getting over run in the middle of the park,i dont know if GA can accommodate that in his system that he likes/uses,it wouldnt take too much tinkering with wot we have cos t b fair we were pretty gash  last year n i dont think it was mainly down t the players,i think the system was all wrong

Tierney was never ear marked to play if at all last season rather a development player - the manager has stated that. Circumstances brought him into the team.

Remains to be seen how Alexander will set us up moving forward. Asking a 20 or so year old to lead in that position  is a bit of an ask, up to now it’s the only role he looks suited to. It would take evolution to help develop with Spittal arguably added to do same.

Suspect you’ve answered why there was the gap between midfield & the forward line with your closing statement.

[wellwell91]

2 hours ago, mfc said:

.i do think we need to add two forward players that are better than shields and efford,I don't fancy the idea of relying on both of those as starters every week.im not sure we will be adding any more defenders unless someone leaves so let's hope there's some hard work being done over pre season to make us a lot more solid at the back.

Think we need to cut Shields some slack until he is played in his correct position. At QOS he played through the middle running of a big target man (Dobbie) and scored for fun.

KVV is a one man band (blinkered IMO) to others round about him

[Spit_It_Out]

11 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Think we need to cut Shields some slack until he is played in his correct position. At QOS he played through the middle running of a big target man (Dobbie) and scored for fun.

KVV is a one man band (blinkered IMO) to others round about him

100 percent agree with you think if we played Shields through the middle with KVV doing his shithousery against centre backs  he would be much more effective.