2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[wellfan]

2 hours ago, Wellfan91 said:

Fox is apparently injured and we want to loan out Connelly.....

Loaning out Connelly would make sense, although I foresee another PJ Morrison situation with him. 

If it's true Fox is injured, and we sign Oxborough, I guess we'll release Fox come May 2023. 

[joewarkfanclub]

Wasnt Fox on the bench on Sunday? It looked like him involved in the warm up with the other keepers.......

[Wellfan91]

14 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Wasnt Fox on the bench on Sunday? It looked like him involved in the warm up with the other keepers.......

Yeah he has been but I don't think he's fit should Kelly leave or get injured.

The boy Oxborough certainly fills the goals, might not be a bad signing - hopefully we get it done and then allow the new manager to sign a couple of strikers and winger!

[wellfan]

Goalkeepers

Kelly - class
Fox - ok
Connelly - ?

Defenders

SOD - ok
Carrol - injured and crap
Sol - crap
Mugabi - crap
Ojala - made of glass
Lamie - ok
McGinley - crap
McGinn - ok
Johnston - shows promise
Devine - ?

Midfielders

Maguire - acceptable
Spittal - acceptable
Slattery - ok
Goss - ok
Tierney - ok
Cornelius - ok

Forwards

KVV - ok
Shields - crap
Efford - crap
Morris - crap
Mahon - ?

Summary

A team of Motherwell's level will inevitably always have to carry some crap; however, we are overwhelmingly crap due to Alexander. We need to make a lot of signings or we're going down. We need, at least: 1x winger, 2x forwards, 2x centre backs, 1x left back, 1x creative midfielder and 1x big bastard tough guy. 

[MelvinBragg]

13 hours ago, wellfan said:

Goalkeepers

Kelly - class
Fox - ok
Connelly - ?

Defenders

SOD - ok
Carrol - injured and crap
Sol - crap
Mugabi - crap
Ojala - made of glass
Lamie - ok
McGinley - crap
McGinn - ok
Johnston - shows promise
Devine - ?

Midfielders

Maguire - acceptable
Spittal - acceptable
Slattery - ok
Goss - ok
Tierney - ok
Cornelius - ok

Forwards

KVV - ok
Shields - crap
Efford - crap
Morris - crap
Mahon - ?

Summary

A team of Motherwell's level will inevitably always have to carry some crap; however, we are overwhelmingly crap due to Alexander. We need to make a lot of signings or we're going down. We need, at least: 1x winger, 2x forwards, 2x centre backs, 1x left back, 1x creative midfielder and 1x big bastard tough guy. 

This current squad plus Tony Watt and Kayne Woolery showed itself capable of winning games in the SPL last season. It shows that the right couple of players makes a huge difference. As does confidence. Team looked terrified yesterday. We need 2 or 3 signings but they, along with the new manager, need to be able to lift the place.  For long spells last season, Mugabi looked solid with the occasional error. Yesterday he looked aghast any time the ball came near him.  As much as new signings, it's about getting guys already here playing to near their optimum.

Someone I know says that 8 average guys and 3 good players gets you top six, 8 average guys and 3 shiters gets you relegated.  I reckon we have at least 8 average guys. The next couple of signings, we have to get right...

[Kmcalpin]

8 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

Team looked terrified yesterday. We need 2 or 3 signings but they, along with the new manager, need to be able to lift the place. 

Thats true, but it doesn't help when players are played out of position.  Several looked very unsure of themselves yesterday because they were asked to fill roles for which they aren't suited, and I'm not referring to O'Donnell. 

[MelvinBragg]

4 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Thats true, but it doesn't help when players are played out of position.  Several looked very unsure of themselves yesterday because they were asked to fill roles for which they aren't suited, and I'm not referring to O'Donnell. 

Also true. I'm assuming you're looking at Spittal and possibly Shields. Spittal signing has Paul Lawson/Iain Vigurs feel to it. Signed a player who did well at another team and signed him with no thought as to where or how they fit into your team. Shields as a winger is far from ideal but lack of options there is an issue. 

Everyone else was played, more or less, in their position. With the exception of Morris who should have been playing in a car back down South...

[Kmcalpin]

2 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

Also true. I'm assuming you're looking at Spittal and possibly Shields.........Everyone else was played, more or less, in their position. With the exception of Morris who should have been playing in a car back down South...

You're right about Spittal and possibly Shields but I was thinking more of Morris and Maguire. Early days, but Morris hasn't impressed me. His career to date suggests a left sided midfielder, but thats not where Alexander and Hammell have played him. In the first half, he looked unsure what he was meant to be doing - no idea what instructions he had been given beforehand. Barry Maguire, a Championship level player at best but never a defensive central midfielder.  In short, the midfield was an absolute shambles until half time, and a bit better afterwards.  If we play a 4-3-3 then our best midfield is undoubtedly Slattery, Goss and Cornelius. I appreciate that only 2 of them were available yesterday.     

[MelvinBragg]

12 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

You're right about Spittal and possibly Shields but I was thinking more of Morris and Maguire. Early days, but Morris hasn't impressed me. His career to date suggests a left sided midfielder, but thats not where Alexander and Hammell have played him. In the first half, he looked unsure what he was meant to be doing - no idea what instructions he had been given beforehand. Barry Maguire, a Championship level player at best but never a defensive central midfielder.  In short, the midfield was an absolute shambles until half time, and a bit better afterwards.  If we play a 4-3-3 then our best midfield is undoubtedly Slattery, Goss and Cornelius. I appreciate that only 2 of them were available yesterday.     

We'll agree to disagree on Cornelius and Maguire. I actually think Maguire is the better player (granted he should be further ahead in his development than Cornelius due to age) but like a couple of players in the team, his confidence looks totally shot to pieces.  Cornelius, I think, is still a player with potential but don't know how he'll develop...

[Onthefringes]

42 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

We'll agree to disagree on Cornelius and Maguire. I actually think Maguire is the better player (granted he should be further ahead in his development than Cornelius due to age) but like a couple of players in the team, his confidence looks totally shot to pieces.  Cornelius, I think, is still a player with potential but don't know how he'll develop...

Both different types of player so hardly comparable for me. Maguire hasn’t the discipline & is rash for starters.

Adding experience there to aid their development was to be welcomed - we got Blair Spittal. Further compounds the problems.

[Coatsy]

1 hour ago, MelvinBragg said:

Also true. I'm assuming you're looking at Spittal and possibly Shields. Spittal signing has Paul Lawson/Iain Vigurs feel to it. Signed a player who did well at another team and signed him with no thought as to where or how they fit into your team. Shields as a winger is far from ideal but lack of options there is an issue. 

Everyone else was played, more or less, in their position. With the exception of Morris who should have been playing in a car back down South...

Hope he's not like Vigurs biggest wage thief i've seen at Fir Park, think we need to give him some time but had expected more from him considering how many first team games he's played

[mfc]

Spittal wasn't needed,nor does he fit in,the same goes for morris plus he doesn't look upto it at this level.mcginn is decent enough but I still think it was a bit of a strange signing.the recruitment has been a disaster so far this summer.

[wellsince75]

Overall we have 9-10 ok players.

one very good player in Kelly . 

we need to sign/have someone who can create and also someone who can score.

 we need to operate without players who are likely to cause goals/ ones we get away with 

fianlly we need to operate and play as a team , better than the sum of all parts . 
 

personally believe 4 decent signings together with a good manager will achieve these things and end up being a decent mid table team 

 

[Mintymac]

The strange thing for me is that it was so blatantly obvious what we needed for this season . 
A  left back ,a dominant centre half ,a defensive anchor , winger or wingers and a centre forward who plays in the box . 
. That’s five /six players in my reckoning that would need to come in and hit the ground running . 
As painful as it was to watch yesterday Hammy must have learned so much during that 90 mins . it was glaringly obvious .

1.Mugabi can’t be trusted , could have been sent off Again in his first tackle .

2.McGuire is never a defensive midfielder and his passing is shocking . Gogic or someone of that nature required to play that role .

3.Left back needed ASAP . Obviously

4. Centre forward that will play centre forward . Not left or right or chasing back to middle of park . 
5: Minimum of one winger but preferably two who can create chances and get us up the park .

I’m sure Hammy if he gets the job must/does know what is needed and the budget will dictate but not bringing in the players we need will cost us a lot more as relegation is a real threat this season with the current squad . 
Massive decisions for the board this week as it could determine or league status going forward . 
Think we’re at a watershed moment for our club and hopefully the board recognise the seriousness and act bravely 

 

 

 

[wellsince75]

3 minutes ago, Mintymac said:

The strange thing for me is that it was so blatantly obvious what we needed for this season . 
A  left back ,a dominant centre half ,a defensive anchor , winger or wingers and a centre forward who plays in the box . 
. That’s five /six players in my reckoning that would need to come in and hit the ground running . 
As painful as it was to watch yesterday Hammy must have learned so much during that 90 mins . it was glaringly obvious .

1.Mugabi can’t be trusted , could have been sent off Again in his first tackle .

2.McGuire is never a defensive midfielder and his passing is shocking . Gogic or someone of that nature required to play that role .

3.Left back needed ASAP . Obviously

4. Centre forward that will play centre forward . Not left or right or chasing back to middle of park . 
5: Minimum of one winger but preferably two who can create chances and get us up the park .

I’m sure Hammy if he gets the job must/does know what is needed and the budget will dictate but not bringing in the players we need will cost us a lot more as relegation is a real threat this season with the current squad . 
Massive decisions for the board this week as it could determine or league status going forward . 
Think we’re at a watershed moment for our club and hopefully the board recognise the seriousness and act bravely 

 

 

 

Completely with you , brilliant post .

good luck in the final 4 Mintymac , you make a lot of sense 

[spudmfc]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Thats true, but it doesn't help when players are played out of position.  Several looked very unsure of themselves yesterday because they were asked to fill roles for which they aren't suited, and I'm not referring to O'Donnell. 

As it turned out,out of position or not SOD is our best left back

[Great Balls of Shire]

1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

Both different types of player so hardly comparable for me. Maguire hasn’t the discipline & is rash for starters.

Adding experience there to aid their development was to be welcomed - we got Blair Spittal. Further compounds the problems.

different types of players but, at this stage , neither good enough....spittal to be fair has some experience and pedigree

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Mintymac said:

The strange thing for me is that it was so blatantly obvious what we needed for this season . 
A  left back ,a dominant centre half ,a defensive anchor , winger or wingers and a centre forward who plays in the box . 
. That’s five /six players in my reckoning that would need to come in and hit the ground running . 
As painful as it was to watch yesterday Hammy must have learned so much during that 90 mins . it was glaringly obvious .

1.Mugabi can’t be trusted , could have been sent off Again in his first tackle .

2.McGuire is never a defensive midfielder and his passing is shocking . Gogic or someone of that nature required to play that role .

3.Left back needed ASAP . Obviously

4. Centre forward that will play centre forward . Not left or right or chasing back to middle of park . 
5: Minimum of one winger but preferably two who can create chances and get us up the park .

I’m sure Hammy if he gets the job must/does know what is needed and the budget will dictate but not bringing in the players we need will cost us a lot more as relegation is a real threat this season with the current squad . 
Massive decisions for the board this week as it could determine or league status going forward . 
Think we’re at a watershed moment for our club and hopefully the board recognise the seriousness and act bravely 

 

 

 

Agree with much of that.

My concern is where do we get all these players at this stage?

The decent ones will all be signed up.

We will be left to choose from unsigned players or loan deals.

Maybe that was always going to be the case, but whoever the new manager is, will have a tough task ahead of them.

[Onthefringes]

7 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

different types of players but, at this stage , neither good enough....spittal to be fair has some experience and pedigree

Therein lies part of the problem. Pedigree.

[wellsince75]

We do need to bring in some decent quality - ideally players who can create and score , a solid centre half who reads the game and talks players through games would be great .

 for now I’d like to see us trying some formations that suit the players we have available . 

plenty of teams  set up 3-4-2-1 or similar as they only have one out and out striker .

we could easily set up in this formation and get much better use out of tierney , goss and others 

[Spiderpig]

3 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Therein lies part of the problem. Pedigree.

Correct,  pedigree is a luxury we can't afford even if it was available. We have brought in some affordable ordinary looking players in the past that have turned out to be very successful for us a few more like that is what's required  now.

But for me it's going to be difficult now the season has started and this late in a transfer window, we could be stuck with what we have till January. 

[pretzel]

Obviously I don't know what the deal is on the keeper front as we seem well covered in that area but that Oxborough guy we had on trial was out on the pitch helping out with the warm up on Saturday.

[fizoxy]

Good on the club for reading the room and keeping that one quiet.

[pretzel]

Not that it matters now, but I was reading an interview earlier by Callum Hendry and he was saying he knocked us back a month or so ago to head to Salford. Least we attempted to get a striker in.

['WellMagic!]

Josh Ginnelly seemingly been punted by Hearts. First bit of business?