2022/23 ins & outs discussion

[David]

From what I've seen of Cornelius he's a handy player to have in the squad, but I don't think he's a first choice for the manager.

That's not to say that it makes him a bad player, because the truth is, every team needs squad players. He could eventually nail down a starting spot, but if he's offered a chance to go elsewhere and play more regularly and make similar if not better money then I wouldn't grudge him the move.

[gaz7]

40 minutes ago, supermarv said:

I don’t think Dean has showed any level of ability similar to Allan Campbell. As soon as Allan Campbell came into the team he had something special about him and 100x the player as well I don’t recall him having lengthy dips in form. 

That's my view as well. To compare Campbell with Cornelius is not right.

Some say Cornelius hasn't had chance but the question I ask is why hasn't he had chance?

I sometimes pop up to watch training at Dalzell if I'm up that way and anytime I see a game at training slattery and goss really stand out. I know training is different but I'm certain hammell is well aware of Cornelius attributes and I'd imagine maybe even has a soft spot for him due to coming through academy but just doesn't see him as 1st team regular.

Time will tell if he can kick on but he's 22 soon so next couple of years are huge for him.

He loves club and for that reason alone he deserves more patience than others

[wellwell91]

2 hours ago, smiddy said:

 i know this is a random question , but dont know if anybody on here knows anybody in david turnbulls circle i was told today again from a reliable smeltic source that we have asked OR he has asked about a loan deal away from them for game time,now dont shoot me down on this as i am just saying what i was told, and this guy is ITK  ??????

He’s still in Ange’s plans and he does not want him to go out on loan although Turnbull is not happy about getting 10mins here and there at the end of games. 
There is interest from down south and further afield Germany and Italy so basically we have no chance. 

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, supermarv said:

I don’t think Dean has showed any level of ability similar to Allan Campbell. As soon as Allan Campbell came into the team he had something special about him and 100x the player as well I don’t recall him having lengthy dips in form. That doesn’t mean I think Dean is a bad player I think he’s a good rotation player and at the moment I’d have him in the team over others, sitting just in front of the defence as someone else has mentioned. I do disagree that someone else said about him not having an engine that’s probably his best asset is how hard he works but if he had that extra dig he’d be much better, not technically the greatest but given a run of games he could do something but for me he’s another Carswell/ Hetherington but hope to be proven wrong as he’s one of us.

Revisionism at its fans’ forum finest. 100x the player? Of course he had dips in form, it’s the most natural thing in young footballer’s making their way in the game - the difference being he was afforded the opportunity to make these mistakes and learn from them in sustained gametime which many feel could be replicated with others.

I’ll go on the word of those who’ve actively been involved in his development. Nothing cryptic or ITK before you start, all carried out in public.

Lack of gametime won’t define him as a player. Hammell & the kid in question will soon realise there’s a bigger world out there than Motherwell.

[Great Balls of Shire]

2 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Revisionism at its fans’ forum finest. 100x the player? Of course he had dips in form, it’s the most natural thing in young footballer’s making their way in the game - the difference being he was afforded the opportunity to make these mistakes and learn from them in sustained gametime which many feel could be replicated with others.

I’ll go on the word of those who’ve actively been involved in his development. Nothing cryptic or ITK before you start, all carried out in public.

Lack of gametime won’t define him as a player. Hammell & the kid in question will soon realise there’s a bigger world out there than Motherwell.

I never noticed much of a dip in Campbell form but even if there was, I would still have played him because even at his poorest he was head and shoulders above most 

[Onthefringes]

6 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I never noticed much of a dip in Campbell form but even if there was, I would still have played him because even at his poorest he was head and shoulders above most 

It’s not a comparison between the two players that’s being made. It’s the opportunity given to both.

We get Allan Campbell has a special place, and deservedly so. I’d wager Dean isn’t after being the ‘next’ Allan Campbell despite lots of focus on everything he did. He’ll want to be the first Dean Cornelius.

Unfortunately, it looks like he’s dealing with an ego that knows no bounds in current coaching staff.

[smiddy]

1 hour ago, wellwell91 said:

He’s still in Ange’s plans and he does not want him to go out on loan although Turnbull is not happy about getting 10mins here and there at the end of games. 
There is interest from down south and further afield Germany and Italy so basically we have no chance. 

good m8 at least youv clarified that   but ma source said the question was deffo  asked  either by MFC or turnbull himself

[supermarv]

1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

Revisionism at its fans’ forum finest. 100x the player? Of course he had dips in form, it’s the most natural thing in young footballer’s making their way in the game - the difference being he was afforded the opportunity to make these mistakes and learn from them in sustained gametime which many feel could be replicated with others.

I’ll go on the word of those who’ve actively been involved in his development. Nothing cryptic or ITK before you start, all carried out in public.

Lack of gametime won’t define him as a player. Hammell & the kid in question will soon realise there’s a bigger world out there than Motherwell.

Again I’ll say I can’t recall watching Campbell have a dip in form, perhaps an odd poor game here or there but not like you are alluding, they poor games most likely related to the teams overall performance. 
 

I agree with you completely with what I’ve heard regarding Dean’s situation he’s not been developed properly by ourselves or even Hibs for that matter, for ourselves it was partially due to the covid season interruption and the inability to give him game time when needed which was here or elsewhere on loan. However the reason he’s not been afforded ‘mistakes’ is because when he has been given a chance he’s never really stood out as such, just a ‘decent young player’ who can do a job if required. Nice passer of the ball and works hard just lacking that extra that’s needed to breakthrough, that could be winning and crunching tackles with well established players like campbell, ability to beat men for ease or score from 30 yards like Turnbull. Once again an okay player that could definitely develop if let to but so far not done too much massive 6 months for him and hopefully can be seen to his best effect.

[Onthefringes]

Like I say, revisionism. Think the misty eyed would’ve seen a transfer fee akin to the player they thought we had. The club nurtured in a different way, marketed the player and should realise an additional stream from his progress. The players’ character and worth ethic embellish the talent.

Onto our player. The reason? Don’t know who you’ve been talking to, it certainly doesn’t align with those that matter.

Has it ever occurred to you that he’s developed because he’s followed instructions to the letter? Gametime as mentioned won’t define him. Take the shackles off, get the balance right and there’s more chance it’ll pay dividends.

Personally think it’s a forlorn hope, certainly as someone isn’t practising what he preached.

[supermarv]

3 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Like I say, revisionism. Think the misty eyed would’ve seen a transfer fee akin to the player they thought we had. The club nurtured in a different way, marketed the player and should realise an additional stream from his progress. The players’ character and worth ethic embellish the talent.

Onto our player. The reason? Don’t know who you’ve been talking to, it certainly doesn’t align with those that matter.

Has it ever occurred to you that he’s developed because he’s followed instructions to the letter? Gametime as mentioned won’t define him. Take the shackles off, get the balance right and there’s more chance it’ll pay dividends.

Personally think it’s a forlorn hope, certainly as someone isn’t practising what he preached.

Can’t a player when on the park grab the game by the scruff of the neck and maybe show the manager he’s capable of more? There’s been little incline to me even if as you say the shackles taken off that it will change much of Dean or our teams play with regards to how they chose to use him. This is from seeing him playing back at hibs from u 16s games and for Motherwell at u18s upwards

[Onthefringes]

35 minutes ago, supermarv said:

Can’t a player when on the park grab the game by the scruff of the neck and maybe show the manager he’s capable of more? There’s been little incline to me even if as you say the shackles taken off that it will change much of Dean or our teams play with regards to how they chose to use him. This is from seeing him playing back at hibs from u 16s games and for Motherwell at u18s upwards

Yes, they can. How many do when following instruction? Flair is coached out of far too many much to the detriment of the sport. Perhaps needs more of a selfish streak.

Some are just tasked with doing the unglamorous work. Very much needed, but, as he’s not the flying anorak type he’s dismissed.

Just shocked you never dropped in seeing him at national level age groups. Billy Gilmour being the only flair player amongst ‘em. Then.

[Onthefringes]

8 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

 

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I never noticed much of a dip in Campbell form

All young players have dips in form. Allan Campbell is rightly famed for his work ethic and deservedly earned his move south. All that said, he had dips in form and in his last season with us he went off the boil for perhaps 6 weeks/2 months. I remember remarking on this at the time.

[Great Balls of Shire]

41 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Yes, they can. How many do when following instruction? Flair is coached out of far too many much to the detriment of the sport. Perhaps needs more of a selfish streak.

Some are just tasked with doing the unglamorous work. Very much needed, but, as he’s not the flying anorak type he’s dismissed.

Just shocked you never dropped in seeing him at national level age groups. Billy Gilmour being the only flair player amongst ‘em. Then.

Just curious, what's a flying anorak?

[Onthefringes]

28 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Just curious, what's a flying anorak?

Explained elsewhere. The next step from headless chicken - a type that hares into challenges that’ll excite some but, others realise the game has evolved and that conviction is misplaced.

[El Grew]

9 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I don't agree, but I would  be happy to be proven wrong, you might have seen more of the boy than me....as regards Alan Campbell, I don't remember anyone saying they didn't rate him, I think we all could see he was a player with a great engine

Well football’s all about opinions isn’t it? However I think you (and a couple of other posters) have missed my point here. I was making the point that from what I’ve seen of Dean Cornelius, he is not a creative or flair player but more of a (old fashioned term coming up) wing-half.

Although he’s only played a handful of games, I believe he’s played his best football when played between our penalty box and halfway where he’s able to break-up opposition attacks as Brown and Lennon did for Celtic. He has the capability and the engine for that role. Going to show my age now - Nobby Stiles did this job for Man Utd and was told that when he won the ball back, to pass it to the creative midfielders in the side. I really think if Dean Cornelius was employed in that type of role that he’d be a real asset. All teams need their worker bees - the late great Bill Shankly one said “A football team is like a piano. You need 8 men to carry it and 3 men who can play the damned thing.”

[wellfan]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-celtic-rangers-28962604

Riku Danzaki to Motherwell latest

Motherwell have started the work permit process for Japanese midfielder Riku Danzaki, writes Scott Burns. 

The Steelmen have agreed personal terms with the 22-year-old.

They have also agreed a deal for Danzaki to be released from his contract commitments at Consadole Sapporo and his loan at Brisbane Roar.

The Fir Park side are now hoping that they will be given the green light to finalise Danzaki’s move to Scotland, over the coming weeks.

Motherwell boss Stevie Hammell has already brought in Shane Blaney, Mikael Mandron and Ollie Crankshaw in this window.

They are also waiting to see if Ipswich Town will extend defender Matt Penney’s loan for the rest of the season.

Meanwhile, Sheffield United have taken Motherwell youngster Jevan Beattie on trial.

The teenage striker - who is the son of former Scotland and Celtic star Craig Beattie - is training at Bramall Lane this week.

The English Championship side are running the rule over the young striker.

Beattie has come through the youth ranks at Motherwell and has now been offered a full-time contract at Fir Park, now that he has turned 16.

If he does move south then Motherwell would be entitled to training compensation.

[grizzlyg]

9 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Just curious, what's a flying anorak?

I was thinking the same, reminds me of the time someone on the forum didn't like my jokes and called me a "dry lunch", which reminds me.....it's 6 cream crackers and 2 ryvitas later on for my lunch break!! Lol

[mio]

Matt Penney offski. I have to admit I’m not that surprised or too disheartened. I think he looked good to start with, but then slackened off. It can’t be easy I suppose playing alongside our central defenders but his lack of defensive qualities started to appear and I think he’s been one of our poorer performers in the past month, possibly as he’d chucked it as he knew he was returning down south.

I suppose it gives the new Irish guy a chance to come in and take the left back role. Touch wood he can defend.

[Kmcalpin]

17 minutes ago, mio said:

Matt Penney offski. I have to admit I’m not that surprised or too disheartened. I think he looked good to start with, but then slackened off. It can’t be easy I suppose playing alongside our central defenders but his lack of defensive qualities started to appear and I think he’s been one of our poorer performers in the past month, possibly as he’d chucked it as he knew he was returning down south.

I suppose it gives the new Irish guy a chance to come in and take the left back role. Touch wood he can defend.

No huge surprise there. We move on.

My only concern is who replaces him.

[wellfan]

34 minutes ago, mio said:

I suppose it gives the new Irish guy a chance to come in and take the left back role. Touch wood he can defend.

He’s not a left back. 

[gaz7]

27 minutes ago, wellfan said:

He’s not a left back. 

Yes hes always played cb to my knowledge but hes left sided and a 6,3 left back would be good. Players get pigeonholed for a position far too easily imo. 

They are professional players so obviously have a high level of ability and that sometimes just needs some wee tweaks to perform in a role more suited to help them progress in their careers as well as their respective teams.

Loads of examples over years.

If not then SOD simply has to come in. A recent 25 cap scotland international should have a major role within our team but for whatever reason he does not. I hope that gets sorted out as a matter of priority. 

[joewarkfanclub]

SOD can play left back fine. Maybe not ideal, but the few occasions he has played there he hasnt let us down and has probably shown up better than many of the games he has played RB.

Im hoping Blaney is going to be an upgrade at CB, which is where our real problems lie. Hopefully he gets a start this weekend.

[grizzlyg]

Should see if any good left backs out there with surname of Pound.  Then it would be case of Out with a Penney......in with a Pound.   Ba dum tsssssss

[Kmcalpin]

I suspect we knew some time ago that Penney would move back to Ipswich this month. Presumably then we're looking to find a left  wing back? In the meantime, if SOD is still unfit who do we play in that position? AFAIK Max Johnston is purely a right back, as is Paul McGinn. IF thats the case, then the only real option, however undesirable that may be, is to field Ricky Lamie there.