Motherwell v Dundee 05/03/2022

[Yorkyred]

9 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

Got pelters from fans at one point and turned to east stand and put fingers to lips in a be quiet motion. Now a lot of our fans ain't angels but doing that not wise especially when he has been piss poor and team been brutal recently 

I guess the answer there is don’t give our own players dogs abuse. Can anyone name a single time that supporters abusing their own players has actually improved things ? All that happens is they go into hiding or down tools. GA needs to pick a starting 11 and baring injuries stick with it, the constant chopping and changing never bring success.

[wellwell91]

35 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I guess the answer there is don’t give our own players dogs abuse. Can anyone name a single time that supporters abusing their own players has actually improved things ? All that happens is they go into hiding or down tools. GA needs to pick a starting 11 and baring injuries stick with it, the constant chopping and changing never bring success.

He has been consistent with a midfield of O’Hara Donnelly and Goss and they are shite 

[Yorkyred]

4 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

He has been consistent with a midfield of O’Hara Donnelly and Goss and they are shite 

The consistency needs to be in the full 11, one area effects another. GA has lost his way a little and he’s desperately looking for an answer which he won’t find by chopping and changing every game. We should have pushed the boat out slightly for a Watt replacement, that alone would have made a big difference. Other than that I still believe the players are better than they are looking just now, including those midfielders. Confidence has dropped, they’re  getting abuse from the stands, and there is no consistency in the starting 11. I don’t believe Alexander will be sacked and there is no reason he should be but he needs to sit down and have a think about how he wants us to move forward. Difficulty next couple of games for our manager but that’s the job at times. Ross county supporters hit it lucky with their change of manager, every other change this season has been a failure and we have to hope Alexander can turn it around otherwise it’s going to cost the club a substantial amount of money to get rid of him with a real fear the next guy will yet again be no better.

[Ya Bezzer!]

I've said it over and over, I don't think the football is good right now.

But people saying they don't remember a time when it's ever been so bad?  It was worse just over a year ago.  

Other folk saying we have nothing to play for but survival?   We are 1 point off 4th!

We have a realistic chance of going further in the cup, finishing top 6, winning more games than last season, scoring more goals than last season, conceding less than last season, gaining more points than last season.

I think the whole thing with Covid and people not being able to attend games before the start of this season has put some peoples sense of perspective out of kilter.

The truth is we've been honking to watch, bar a David Turnbull inspired spell, since the money tap was screwed closed in the later days of McCall's era.  It's nothing new.

[Heisenboab]

57 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I guess the answer there is don’t give our own players dogs abuse. Can anyone name a single time that supporters abusing their own players has actually improved things ? All that happens is they go into hiding or down tools. GA needs to pick a starting 11 and baring injuries stick with it, the constant chopping and changing never bring success.

I can remember years ago Shaun Fagan getting absolute pelters from most in the stadium. A group of fans then made the point of going OTT supporting/praising him and he had a huge upturn in form. Just shows ye.

[gaz7]

Away for wknd so not at game yesterday but by god reading this the now is horrendous. My sons who were at game said atmosphere was terrible and his words "would put you off going" .wev only missed 3 games all season and generally enjoy it despite results or football on show so for him to say that hit nail on head.

Not one player has had any praise whatsoever on here re yesterday but stats show again we were better team.

I as much as everyone am disappointed with football but it is certainly not any worse than Robinson's 352 with Carson hitting balls up park all day and andy rose and mchugh in midfield.  That football however got us to 2 cup finals which covers up all flaws.

I can honestly see some trouble happening between our own fans soon due to negativity which would be terrible to see.

Players are becoming scared and that will only result in poorer performances. 

It sounds simple to say but we do really need to stop the criticism during games and support the team starting right away against hibs at wknd.

A win there and we r at Hampden and the feelgood factor returns with 3 games to secure top 6 .

[joewarkfanclub]

Re the booing.

I never boo during the game, or direct criticism at individual players for the reasons already discussed. 

But supporters must have the right to boo at half time or at full time to let the manager know they arent pleased with whats being served up.

If we dont, how is he to know how we feel about whats on show? Whats his motivation to change it ?

Given how dire the performance was yesterday, I thought the  support were fairly restrained.  

It also struck me that whenever we actually tried to play a little bit of football yesterday we got some success in getting into their box and creating chances. Every time we lumped it forward or put a long throw into the box we lost it.

Surely that cant have escaped the managers attention?

I dont think our support are any worse than any other and I actually think our fans are pretty desperate to have something to applaud and get enthusiastic about (you just have to look back to some of the games at the start of the season when there appeared to be a really strong bond building to see that)  Its up to the manager and the players to provide that spark.

[Kmcalpin]

My take on yesterday's debacle. No point in chewing over old fat (Donnelly, SOD etc) as I largely agree with it. GA is changing things that maybe don't need to be changed and not changing things that do. 4-3-3 with the squad he has largely built is not working - maybe it would work with different players. I quite get why we're shelling high balls at our striker and wingers but we don't have the players to do it. It was obvious, within the first 5 minutes yesterday, that Dundee's defence would gobble up high balls happily all day long and they did. 

The midfield, as is, has no pace at all and zero creativity. Time after time they failed to support our strikers, by not advancing up the pitch - maybe GA's instructions? When we did break down the middle or  even down the flanks (not the wingers), we were so slow it allowed Dundee to funnell back and organise themselves. The strikers are just not linking up as they are playing far too far apart. Very frustrating to watch our only striker spend so much time wide on the left wing. 

The subs did make a difference late on but by then it was far too late. Interesting that Dundee had as many shots on target as we did, despite them parking the bus. With Dundee fielding a young rookie keeper I would have thought we'd pepper him with crosses and shots, but no.  Certainly Dundee's defence was pretty solid. They looked the hungrier team and worked far harder than us for a good part of the game.  It was only in the closing stages that we looked like doing anything, as they tired.

Two other observations. The pitch isn't looking as good as it has in the past - bare patches and uneven. The POD stand side linesman was at a totally different game from me.  Some of the decisions he failed to indicate on incidents right in front of him were ludicrous.

 

 

[Motherwellfc1991]

I’ve never been a fan of him but Ricki Lambie was our best player yesterday . Showed more passion, desire and commitment than most - this is a guy that’s signed for the opposition showing more than numerous players who will be with us next season - that sums it up really. 

Our biggest and first problem is 433 with a midfield who can’t create and can’t run and can’t tackle with 4 players behind them that generally win their aerial battles and head it into a space where we are constantly out numbered. If we do get the ball on the deck at the back our defence who aren’t great with the ball at their feet have no options in the midfield in front of them so lump it up the park simply to get rid of it. Our esteemed captain being a main culprit in that. Who is he kidding when he constantly drops narrow to hide behind the opponent so no one can pass the ball to him. 

We have a good enough squad with good enough players to do ok in this league ( mugabi , Cornelius, Slaterly , Tierney, Shaw)  but Alexander time and time again refuses to play a formation that suits them and refuses to play the players that can play football , make a 10 yard forward pass and can run and get stuck in. 

 

As for Liam Donnelly - Forth Wanderers are looking for a utility player if you contact their match secretary. 

[Kmac]

51 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I've said it over and over, I don't think the football is good right now.

But people saying they don't remember a time when it's ever been so bad?  It was worse just over a year ago.  

Other folk saying we have nothing to play for but survival?   We are 1 point off 4th!

We have a realistic chance of going further in the cup, finishing top 6, winning more games than last season, scoring more goals than last season, conceding less than last season, gaining more points than last season.

I think the whole thing with Covid and people not being able to attend games before the start of this season has put some peoples sense of perspective out of kilter.

The truth is we've been honking to watch, bar a David Turnbull inspired spell, since the money tap was screwed closed in the later days of McCall's era.  It's nothing new.

You’re spot on.

It has been absolutely turgid for years and I do think a lot of the blame ultimately comes back to the board.

There is absolutely no vision at board level for the club on a footballing level - it’s crystal clear at the AGM’s.

 Yes, Burrows puts a shift in and our social media is neat and tidy but when it comes to the direction of travel, we simply don’t have it. 
No harm to the guys, but it’s a board of directors populated by old men with largely accountancy backgrounds that have neither the vision nor foresight to strategically plan for what we want to achieve in terms of product. If they don’t have it, we should be bringing in a director of football to ensure a top down vision or bottom up vision.
That lack of strategy at the top means that we come down to the whims of managers whom we entrust to provide the big vision and therefore you have phases like Robinson’s ‘throw enough lower league English shite at a wall’ or Alexander’s particular brand of eye bleed. Managers are there to facilitate the will of the club, not to determine the will; but that’s not the situation we have.

It means that we have season after season of turnaround - stop/start youth progression and a complete feeling of disillusion which manifests in what we see now. The atmosphere is dreadful and how could it not be? I, like others have said, found myself last season and this thinking for the first time ever in 30+ years - maybe I’ll give the game a swerve this week. 

The league being as it is, means that it wouldn’t have taken much investment in January to have cantered to 4th but we didn’t. We sat on the record profits and rather than gaining a step on the rest of the league, we’re quite possibly looking at loosing near 600k in league money and the euro money that would’ve come next season. That decision again stems from a lack of footballing vision/ direction. 

[El Grew]

1 hour ago, Kmac said:

You’re spot on.

It has been absolutely turgid for years and I do think a lot of the blame ultimately comes back to the board.

There is absolutely no vision at board level for the club on a footballing level - it’s crystal clear at the AGM’s.

 Yes, Burrows puts a shift in and our social media is neat and tidy but when it comes to the direction of travel, we simply don’t have it. 
No harm to the guys, but it’s a board of directors populated by old men with largely accountancy backgrounds that have neither the vision nor foresight to strategically plan for what we want to achieve in terms of product. If they don’t have it, we should be bringing in a director of football to ensure a top down vision or bottom up vision.
That lack of strategy at the top means that we come down to the whims of managers whom we entrust to provide the big vision and therefore you have phases like Robinson’s ‘throw enough lower league English shite at a wall’ or Alexander’s particular brand of eye bleed. Managers are there to facilitate the will of the club, not to determine the will; but that’s not the situation we have.

It means that we have season after season of turnaround - stop/start youth progression and a complete feeling of disillusion which manifests in what we see now. The atmosphere is dreadful and how could it not be? I, like others have said, found myself last season and this thinking for the first time ever in 30+ years - maybe I’ll give the game a swerve this week. 

The league being as it is, means that it wouldn’t have taken much investment in January to have cantered to 4th but we didn’t. We sat on the record profits and rather than gaining a step on the rest of the league, we’re quite possibly looking at loosing near 600k in league money and the euro money that would’ve come next season. That decision again stems from a lack of footballing vision/ direction. 

Great post. Clearly and accurately identifies the root of the problems at the club.

[Great Balls of Shire]

2 hours ago, gaz7 said:

Away for wknd so not at game yesterday but by god reading this the now is horrendous. My sons who were at game said atmosphere was terrible and his words "would put you off going" .wev only missed 3 games all season and generally enjoy it despite results or football on show so for him to say that hit nail on head.

Not one player has had any praise whatsoever on here re yesterday but stats show again we were better team.

I as much as everyone am disappointed with football but it is certainly not any worse than Robinson's 352 with Carson hitting balls up park all day and andy rose and mchugh in midfield.  That football however got us to 2 cup finals which covers up all flaws.

I can honestly see some trouble happening between our own fans soon due to negativity which would be terrible to see.

Players are becoming scared and that will only result in poorer performances. 

It sounds simple to say but we do really need to stop the criticism during games and support the team starting right away against hibs at wknd.

A win there and we r at Hampden and the feelgood factor returns with 3 games to secure top 6 .

maybe time is playing tricks on me, but I don't think the football was as bad under Robbo...you're right , it got us to 2 cup finals , if we get to semi final next week, that'll make things look a lot better .

Hibs can't buy a goal just now so there's not going to be a better time to beat them but we got to have more of a pattern to our play..

[wellsince75]

In recent times Mcghee (1st spell), Mcall both had spells of us playing decent footy. Robinson had us playing at tempo where we really got stuck in and a few streaks of decent play, equally backed up by poor streaks of dreadfulness. 

GA is set up to work hard without any flair.  Similar to Robinson in as much we go through purple patches of winning ugly followed by this run of not winning and it still being ugly.

We're missing some longer term thinking where we look to invest through a youth, invest in quality that sees us gradually improve each season and critically  approach to our style of playing.  Something to help that creates a desire to cheer the team on v's rip our eyeballs out their sockets. 

[Big Stall]

Couldnt bring myself to comment yesterday, it was dire. I cant even drum up the enthusiasm to rant about. So much wrong but if theres a slight chance GA reads these boards for inspiration, a laugh or just interest then.....

 

- zero attempt to play football through the midfield

- aimless punts up the park

- 2 shots on target all game (when their keeper is plucked from juniors) shocking

- 73 minutes till making a sub suggests that he seems to think what we were doing was working.....

 

GA can bang on all he wants about cutting out mistakes and taking chances, that is absolutley fair however he needs to try and set us up to win games

I honestly think we probably have the best set of players we have had for a good few years now. They are being hamstrung by crazy tactics and no attempts to play football.

[Kmcalpin]

44 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

GA is set up to work hard without any flair.  Similar to Robinson in as much we go through purple patches of winning ugly followed by this run of not winning and it still being ugly.

Nothing much wrong with that approach for a club at our level. However, what is lacking is organisation, discipline and reliability. Yesterday Dundee outbattled us for a long spell. I can quite happily accept GA's brand of football so long as we are winning.

[Yodo]

1 hour ago, Big Stall said:

 

 

I honestly think we probably have the best set of players we have had for a good few years now. They are being hamstrung by crazy tactics and no attempts to play football.

Glad to see u still have a sense of humour 

[mfc]

1 hour ago, Big Stall said:

Couldnt bring myself to comment yesterday, it was dire. I cant even drum up the enthusiasm to rant about. So much wrong but if theres a slight chance GA reads these boards for inspiration, a laugh or just interest then.....

 

- zero attempt to play football through the midfield

- aimless punts up the park

- 2 shots on target all game (when their keeper is plucked from juniors) shocking

- 73 minutes till making a sub suggests that he seems to think what we were doing was working.....

 

GA can bang on all he wants about cutting out mistakes and taking chances, that is absolutley fair however he needs to try and set us up to win games

I honestly think we probably have the best set of players we have had for a good few years now. They are being hamstrung by crazy tactics and no attempts to play football.

Good post.the buck stops with alexander,what we're seeing on the pitch is clearly how he wants us to play,long hoofs up the park,zero football in the middle of the park,no forward runners from midfield,full backs that stand off and let crosses into the ball and were a team that has very little goal threat.we got away with it earlier in the season when we were reasonably solid at the back and had watts quality up front but now that we can't buy a win,alexander doesn't have the answer.the constant changes to the starting line up are one thing but to then just keep playing the exact same way is just madness.how can we expect consistency on the park when the manager makes as many changes every week that does,there's not one solid partnership that's been formed throughout the team,the players must be wondering will I be playing and who will I be playing with.the cup tie is 50/50 lose that and the season is over,there's no way we're getting fourth and I would say we're most likely to be bottom six than top.

[Stevie73]

It’s the no one up the park at corners that baffles me with eight or nine times out of ten we clear to half way line for opposing team to punt straight back into our box…..

[wellwell91]

Hard to disagree with any of that.

Surely we must try different midfield combinations in training ?? Yet we still come up with O’Hara Donnelly and Goss week in week out. 
Why sign the boy Shaw on loan then only give him cameo appearances … … the boy is big strong and mobile and can pass a ball from A to B with a decent success rate.

Also playing  3 forwards ( 1 in Wishaw 1 in Motherwell and 1 in Bellshill ) just does not work. Play 2 up top with young Tierney just behind them and a least he will try and link the forwards with the midfield. Oh and 1 of my 2 would not be KVV who is a law unto himself and very seldom lifts his head and bring others into play. When he’s on it he is almost unplayable but all to often he is reported missing and all he wants to do is throw his weight about giving stupid fouls away and giving teams an easy out ball. 

[Mintymac]

A very hard watch indeed . The quality of football was shocking . What the manager and assistant are talking about on the touch line is baffling . High punts up to the strikers and try and win the second ball off it . What is there to actually talk about.

This is not entertaining whatsoever . And the fans now it.
I’ve no evidence to base this on but what decent player would want to play in a game like that . 

This type of football is sucking the life out the support nearly as much as Alexander’s pre and post match interviews.

Looking to next season I think we could be in real trouble if this continues .

If he serves this garbage up next year I don’t think many people will be going .

We cannot be fooled that we can still qualify for Europe cup semis etc etc . That’s painting over the cracks stuff .

Was really looking forward to Alexander’s appointment at the time and fully supported it,but as they say he’s sucking the oxygen out the room 

 

 

 

 

[GazzyB]

1 hour ago, Stevie73 said:

It’s the no one up the park at corners that baffles me with eight or nine times out of ten we clear to half way line for opposing team to punt straight back into our box…..

This grinds my fuckin gears as well. Just leave Woolery up top himself, he'd get us right up the park more often than what happens now - the ball comes right back at us.
 

***

 

Would be curious to see the form stats for this seasonfor each of our central midfielders if anyone has access.

 

Name, number of games played, goals per game, win % with them starting. Gonna go out on a limb and say that when Slattery is in the team our win % is far higher than when Donnelly is in the team.

[fizoxy]

A lot of the time Slattery was in the team, Watt was there too. We also haven't had the same combination in midfield very often, which I think is more the problem.

I do think we should be finding a way to get as many of our best players on the park as possible, and to me that includes Slattery. If he has defensive deficiencies, then we should find a way to mitigate that.

Conspiracy theories aside, its true that this is his first season of senior football, so I could understand a rest here and there, but being out the picture for 10 plus games doesn't make sense. Surely match experience is what would help him improve?

As for the Donnelly hate, way over the top once again.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[wellwell91]

17 minutes ago, fizoxy said:

I do think we should be finding a way to get as many of our best players on the park as possible, and to me that includes Slattery. If he has defensive deficiencies, then we should find a way to mitigate that.
 

Play 2 up front and 4 in midfield ……… sorted !!!

[grizzlyg]

And can we please....pllleeeaseeeeeee stop this feckin 2 guys to take our corners!!, an absolute waste of time and effort

[joewarkfanclub]

If I was picking a team to get our best players on the park and make us hard to beat whilst making us easier on the eye, I would be going with

‐--------------------------Kelly---------------------

       Mugabi------Ojala------Lamie------Carroll

‐---------------Slattery-------O'Hara-------------

--------Woolery------Tierney-------Efford

-------------------------KVV------------------------

There are arguments for playing McGinley at right back or even playing Sol and pushing Lamie out to the right as we did yesterday, but the midfield would allow us to link front and back without the need of a rocket launcher. Roberts and Shields would be contenders for Effords position.  Donnelly I would keep on the bench as a defensive option if we need to close out a game rather than putting on 6 centre halves. Id love to get Cornelius more game time as well as I believe he has shown enough to deserve it, but that might require some more tinkering re shape. Others may have their own thoughts and Im happy to be shot down by those who are more tactically astute. But  for me,  our squad is capable of much better if utilised in a more productive manner.