This season?

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:22 AM, Yorkyred said:

The difference has been Watt. We’ve had a run of games where we would have picked up points if he’d been playing, I’ve no doubt about that. But the standard off football this season from just about everyone has been awful with the best game been the opener against a Hibs who also look as bad as us these days, how Aberdeen can be so poor with their budget is also baffling.

If you want to know how bad the league is just look at Hibs.

They have only scored in 2 out of their last 10 matches, won 1, and they have jumped  up the league from 7th to 4th!

[wellsince75]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:38 PM, Yorkyred said:

It’s not competitive at all, it’s two teams miles better than everyone else. But the papers are obsessed with the old firm regardless and can’t see how damaging they are to Scottish football.

yip  - it's disingenuous , "very exciting to see teams who will be 7-4th" and win sweet fanny adams, to quality for Europe and get dumped out before the next season starts.

How dull our league truly is due to old firm and we're meant to be delighted to have them.   Be better for all concerned for them both to join a different league and make things relatively interesting. 

[MJC]

St.Mirren have just beaten Dundee with a last minute winner which brings them level on points with us, though we have a better GD.

[ropy]

2 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

St.Mirren have just beaten Dundee with a last minute winner which brings them level on points with us, though we have a better GD.

Ahead on goals scored

[MJC]

1 minute ago, ropy said:

Ahead on goals scored

Just saw that, it’s ridiculously tight in the mid table.

[wunderwell]

I think if we take away games v the old firm including three defeats we have a 9-9-9 record.

What does that mean in reality? I think it's what as Well fans we would take this especially after some worries in the preseason League cup.

The football been dire, sometimes sure. The high press high intensity games I've enjoyed like Dundee United in the rain! Pure football hasn't been in site by any team I've seen outside really Celtic.

Some guys will never make it but we seem intent on giving contracts after 3-4 decent games from some. Some have said give Grimmy a contract, I like him, but it's polar opposite to my thoughts. Exactly the player who we should let go and wish him all the best and see someone new better or worse. Some players are incapable of getting to higher standards.

It's been ok a lot riding on the next 4 games.

 

[grizzlyg]

1pt between 9th and 4th....crazy

[David]

14 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

yip  - it's disingenuous , "very exciting to see teams who will be 7-4th" and win sweet fanny adams, to quality for Europe and get dumped out before the next season starts.

How dull our league truly is due to old firm and we're meant to be delighted to have them.   Be better for all concerned for them both to join a different league and make things relatively interesting. 

I'm far from an advocate of the old firm, but if they upped sticks and buggered off so would the TV deal we have in place, along with a decent chunk of the income we make from them visiting each season.

While our league would be more competitive, it would certainly be less attractive to those outside of Scotland. 

[grizzlyg]

6 hours ago, David said:

I'm far from an advocate of the old firm, but if they upped sticks and buggered off so would the TV deal we have in place, along with a decent chunk of the income we make from them visiting each season.

While our league would be more competitive, it would certainly be less attractive to those outside of Scotland. 

I think if old firm left you would get bigger crowds if it was marketed in the proper way. Though will never happen as English league will never take the old firm, they don't need them.

[Winning by Name]

21 hours ago, David said:

I'm far from an advocate of the old firm, but if they upped sticks and buggered off so would the TV deal we have in place, along with a decent chunk of the income we make from them visiting each season.

While our league would be more competitive, it would certainly be less attractive to those outside of Scotland. 

I think it was Jock Stein who said 'a 100 metres sprint with 8 grannies would be competitive but very low quality'

[David]

18 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

I think if old firm left you would get bigger crowds if it was marketed in the proper way. Though will never happen as English league will never take the old firm, they don't need them.

What makes you think we'd get bigger crowds? The Old Firm would still exist, and thus would likely suck just as many, if not more fans from all over Scotland into their ecosystem.

Imagine the interest in them if they were playing in the English league or something? 

It would maybe make our league a bit more competitive, but as mentioned above, the quality wouldn't be any higher I don't think, and we'd have less TV money coming into the game.

[MJC]

1 hour ago, David said:

What makes you think we'd get bigger crowds? The Old Firm would still exist, and thus would likely suck just as many, if not more fans from all over Scotland into their ecosystem.

Imagine the interest in them if they were playing in the English league or something? 

This is it sadly.

I like the idea of the Old Firm leaving Scottish football but in reality all it would do is increase the glory hunters.

Both of them leaving would not mean they flat pack Parkhead and Ibrox, load them onto lorries and drive down the M74 with all of their core supporters following behind them for them to set up in London or Birmingham or wherever. Their supporters would all still be up here and their popularity would skyrocket. 
 

You see kids who support clubs like ours running about in Liverpool/Man Utd/Chelsea tops just now, and if Celtic/Rangers ‘go down south’ and flourish then I have absolutely no doubt that you’ll start to see a lot of non-Old Firm fans up here having one of them as their ‘second team’ or ‘English’ team.

[Yorkyred]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:28 AM, David said:

I'm far from an advocate of the old firm, but if they upped sticks and buggered off so would the TV deal we have in place, along with a decent chunk of the income we make from them visiting each season.

While our league would be more competitive, it would certainly be less attractive to those outside of Scotland. 

I think though it would be more attractive to those supporters of other top flight clubs. We regularly get some of the lowest home supporter attendances against the old firm and it’s not just us. I think any club that had a realistic chance of winning the league would actually see overall attendance increases. While I understand the drop in income I think it would actually  be more attractive to those that matter.

[David]

54 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

While I understand the drop in income I think it would actually  be more attractive to those that matter.

Have you seen the reaction to shit football this season? Imagine if we had an even smaller budget? And the teams around us the same? 

[grizzlyg]

4 hours ago, David said:

What makes you think we'd get bigger crowds? The Old Firm would still exist, and thus would likely suck just as many, if not more fans from all over Scotland into their ecosystem.

Imagine the interest in them if they were playing in the English league or something? 

It would maybe make our league a bit more competitive, but as mentioned above, the quality wouldn't be any higher I don't think, and we'd have less TV money coming into the game.

Was just my own view,  will never happen anyway

[Hope Springs]

If the OF did manage to have themselves accepted into the English Premiership, who’s to say they would be successful. Plenty of big clubs in bigger cities than Glasgow are languishing in lower divisions. And the fans of the OF are just as likely to dwindle in that scenario, while a competitive, more open and winnable Scottish premier league might attract the younger generations in particular. Motherwell v Hibs for second or top spot and a European place might be a more interesting proposition than Rangers v Hull or Celtic v Middlesbrough for hee haw.

[wellsince75]

2 hours ago, David said:

Have you seen the reaction to shit football this season? Imagine if we had an even smaller budget? And the teams around us the same? 

The style of play isn't all about the quality of players. Lower league team have out played us with basics. 

[Kmcalpin]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:28 AM, David said:

I'm far from an advocate of the old firm, but if they upped sticks and buggered off so would the TV deal we have in place, along with a decent chunk of the income we make from them visiting each season.

While our league would be more competitive, it would certainly be less attractive to those outside of Scotland. 

I respectfully disagree David. The important thing would be to ensure that if they left they left i.e no B teams left in the SPFL.  Yes, there would be a drop in TV money, I don't deny that, but that would be made up by increased crowds and more teams being involved in European competition. The top league would be more competitive and free from sectarian bile. That in itself would encourage more to come back.  Teams would have more chance of progressing in and winning cups. You'd also be less likely to have Celtic and Sevco fans travelling to away games in numbers week in week out. Its easier and cheaper for them to get to Motherwell or Kilmanrnock than it is to Bristol or Watford.

As far as their attendance at our home games, I guesstimated that our gate money would drop by about £38,000 a year (based on this season's attendances). Not a huge sum.  Now this broad calculation doesn't take into account increased income from catering and hospitality nor increased security costs.

On balance we can do without them, but it won't happen.

[steelman1991]

Sorry this is "Hans Christian Anderson" territory. These fans who won't travel to England, won't suddenly pitch up at Fir Park, Tynecastle, Rugby Park or wherever. The only clubs likely to see an increase in crowds are those that have decent fanbases - the city clubs. We are what we are and no "Old Firm" isn't gonna make us any bigger, either in stature or support. Last cup final I think proved that. Even with day trippers, wives and girlfriends - we barely shifted 12K.

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, steelman1991 said:

Sorry this is "Hans Christian Anderson" territory. These fans who won't travel to England, won't suddenly pitch up at Fir Park, Tynecastle, Rugby Park or wherever. The only clubs likely to see an increase in crowds are those that have decent fanbases - the city clubs. We are what we are and no "Old Firm" isn't gonna make us any bigger, either in stature or support. Last cup final I think proved that. Even with day trippers, wives and girlfriends - we barely shifted 12K.

I can pretty much guarantee if we are challenging for the title attendances would increase. By how much is open to debate but they would increase.

[steelman1991]

4 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

I can pretty much guarantee if we are challenging for the title attendances would increase. By how much is open to debate but they would increase.

Sorry mate you can't guarantee anything. I know you probably weren't around in the early 90's when we were challenging for the title and our average attendance barely rose beyond 7K. I appreciate that is a significant increase compared to today's average, but we had a larger latent support at that time too. We couldn't even sell-out a Champions League game recently. We just don't have the support, or interest I think you think we have - success or not.

I used to watch in awe, when Aberdeen used to make cup finals and challenge - and win league titles - and used to tell my dad, how big a support we would have if we had similar success. His comment "you're aff your heid" - sadly he was right.

The only way I think what your suggesting would happen would be with a healthy sustained period of success/challenges and that ain't gonna happen, with or without the "Old Firm".

[ppower]

I haven't posted on here for a very long time. I was  regular season ticket holder and used to go to FP every week with four mates. We all stopped going about 3 years ago. Watching Alexanders  boot it up the park  tactics and before him Robinson's cave man football,  I have no intention of returning and paying the over inflated prices to be bored out of my skull for 90 minutes.  If anyone thinks what is being served up at FP and in the Premier League in general, even allowing for the abysmal standard of player, is really football then put forward your argument.  We can't even attract 4000 supporters on a good day.  That says it all.  Graham Alexander is another manager we have employed who trawls the depths of despair e.g.  the English lower leagues for players whose  careers have consisted of being put out on loan season after season.  He then signs them . Oh and the next time Alexander changes his expression let me know. I swear it is a cardboard cutout standing at the touchline. No animation, no emotion, no passion, no encouragement. His after match comments beggar belief.  It is like a repeat TV programme.  He needs to be told that the rules DO allow him to pick the same 11 players in the same positions more than once rather than putting the players names in a hat.   As for the current squad of players.  We have one guy who could play at a higher level and that is Kelly the goalkeeper. He is paid approx £4000 a week and earns it. As for the rest of the players. Parcel them up in a box and put them on a shelf at BM Bargains and see if anyone bites. That's the only way you might get money for them.

[Haggischomper]

Thanks for your input

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[El Grew]

Whether you think this league season has been good or bad will all depend on your viewpoint.

Do you believe that our first priority should always be to ensure that we retain our top league status and that if we do so even by finishing 10th this is acceptable?   Or do you believe that our first priority should be to aim for a European place by finishing 3rd/4th but be prepared to accept a top 6 spot at worst?

If you believe that it should be the latter, then the club would probably need a significant financial injection to to afford better quality players than we have now and pay bigger salaries to retain them.  However, remember this was tried before (by us and a number of other clubs) and it ended in tears and administration.

[The African]

Where to begin? If we finish tenth, as seems possible, will it be considered par for the course? It is supposedly what we budget for. Unfortunately, the manner in which we have gone about it has left some of our support less than satisfied. It is a results business, but we have not been good to watch all year, just lucky we picked up points when on a decent run. Conversely, pretty football doesn't win you anything, and while we can look back through rose tinted spectacles at the great football sometimes played by the youngsters when we were in administration, history shows we would have been relegated thateason if we had not benefited from Falkirk's stadium shortcomings. A balance is obviously required, and that is one area we are falling down on. I do think that a little slack has to be given to the management regarding the circumstances of the pandemic. We have had to budget for a larger squad than we might otherwise require in order to fulfill fixtures and we have lost out in not being able to bring through young players from our system because of no reserve or age group matches. Things are going to have to change in order to improve matters and we need to decide if Alexander and company are the people to take us forward.

As for people deciding that enough is enough and not renewing season tickets, while it is a shame, it certainly isn't my place to be telling anyone how to spend their hard earned cash. I hope that long term supports can keep the faith and perhaps return to the fold once we get a better team on the park. I have been a Motherwell fan for long enough to know that there are always going to be bumps on the road, but another Pettigrew, McFadden, Turnbull is just around the corner. I can also confirm that, after several years overseas, being a Motherwell fan is an incurable condition, but it is not terminal.

Does Liam Kelly really get £4 grand a week?