Livingston vs Motherwell

[wellgirl]

Very happy? I’m over the moon. My brother who is one of the most positive people when it comes to Motherwell is scunnered and I get it. The football is awful at times. But look at the post match interview Alexander gave. Don’t tell me that isn’t someone who cares about Motherwell and football because he clearly does. For context I’ve been going to Fir park since 1987 and Alexander is my favourite manager and I will stand by that. And I speak as someone who cried when Robbo left 

[wellgirl]

I also think Callum Slattery is an amazing footballer and I am really happy that he got the first goal. 

[Welldaft Mk1]

39 minutes ago, ropy said:

Great goal by Slattery

ABSOLUTELY. Few could understand why he was benched. Two games later he cracked a ball v St Mirren but for a wonder save was a goal all day long. Then the belter today. Make no mistake that was a phenomenal finish. 

Lots of rumours as to why he has not been starting. I have no idea if any or none are true. But we’re it not for him we would not be top 6. I am happy clappy mainly but that is squarely on the Manager.  

[Onthefringes]

3 hours ago, MFCL84 said:

I believe that pretty much everyone on here is happy that the team did enough to achieve a top 6 finish. I can see exactly why so many are dissatisfied with the way the team play though. There is no entertainment on offer. There is no structure to the team, there is no movement,  there is very little interplay and defensively the team is very soft.

The results in the first half of the season made the excruciating brand of football bearable and covered up many of the flaws, but it was never entertaining. I am thoroughly fed-up watching the way we play. 

It would cost too much for Motherwell to change the manager. We all need to accept that he'll be here for a while yet, but as supporters that pay good money to keep the club afloat, entertainment must come higher up the list of priorities. So, while he isn't going anywhere soon, he needs to be told to find another way to play the game. Just as Motherwell cannot afford to get rid of any manager while on a long contract, losing core support is equally as possibly more economically harmful to the club.

I for one am hoping for more entertainment in the final 5 games. Over to GA and the team to deliver.

Those statements are just not truthful. Anybody thinking different needs to give their head a wobble.

[El Grew]

Many posters on this forum have been groaning about our style of play - eye-bleeding is one that comes to mind.

Now that we’ve scrambled into the top 6 many of those same posters are now trotting out the “ends justify the means” argument.

Sorry but that’s hypocrisy.  You can’t have it both ways.  Eye-bleeding football and a top 6 finish or attractive football and no top 6 finish.  Football is supposed to be in the  entertainment business and in the current difficult economic climate fans may need to start rationing their attendance at matches.  However I would argue that this may be less likely to occur if clubs were more consistent, entertaining and attractive to watch.

Quite honestly, Scottish football is as poor as it’s ever been as witness by the number of teams from Hearts down who have unable to show any level of consistency and are producing shitfest football every week and the powers that be are happy enough with this as long as it keeps the big two happy and on side.

[ropy]

The last 20 minutes, and it was only 20 minutes, were very entertaining.

[mfc]

Today was an example that we can be effective when we take our time in possession and even keep it simple.first half was shambolic,we gave the ball away at every turn from long hoofs up the park to trying to play a 5 yard pass in the middle of the park,everything was all rushed,it was like nobody wanting to be in possession.the second half we were a bit more composed in the middle of the park and with players actually looking to get on the ball,there was some good balls played down our right flank in the second half and not the aimless punts into space that we see a lot of the time.im.not convinced by alexander but chuffed we made it over the line consider it feels like we had spent most of the season in the top 6,I'm glad we have some games to look forward to with a bit of meaning about them rather than those bottom 6 games that feel like pre season friendlies.

[texanwellfan]

31 minutes ago, El Grew said:

Many posters on this forum have been groaning about our style of play - eye-bleeding is one that comes to mind.

Now that we’ve scrambled into the top 6 many of those same posters are now trotting out the “ends justify the means” argument.

Sorry but that’s hypocrisy.  You can’t have it both ways.  Eye-bleeding football and a top 6 finish or attractive football and no top 6 finish.  Football is supposed to be in the  entertainment business and in the current difficult economic climate fans may need to start rationing their attendance at matches.  However I would argue that this may be less likely to occur if clubs were more consistent, entertaining and attractive to watch.

Quite honestly, Scottish football is as poor as it’s ever been as witness by the number of teams from Hearts down who have unable to show any level of consistency and are producing shitfest football every week and the powers that be are happy enough with this as long as it keeps the big two happy and on side.

I’m an advocate of playing football and winning games. I think we would have won more games had we tried to play football than we have done using the eye bleeding approach. 

[Yabba's Turd]

2 hours ago, ppower said:

Who the fuck asked you to chime in.

32 contributions in 12 years? Gi'e the shit patter a rest 

[weeyin]

The last few months of Robinson were "eye bleeding".

I've posted many times about how, like most clubs our size, the only reason we watch is to be entertained. Our chances of winning anything are slim to none, so enjoyment is key.

Football being football, however, you can't guarantee that at Fir Park (or at, for example, Old Trafford). That's part of the fun.

Entertainment, for me, isn't just about seeing fast flowing attractive football every week - although that would be ideal. It's also about watching managers develop players, watching new players evolve, watching youngsters come through, watching players adapt etc.

Then there is bringing in a new manager that has never managed in Scotland before. If you remember, early on he tried to play out from the back before discovering that Scottish players and Scottish football struggled with that. So had to change tactics. Then with Covid and major injury and fitness issues, we've struggled to field consistent starting line-ups.

Again, for me, that is part of the interest of watching a team like ours. It's been a struggle in 2022. but somehow we've managed to get top 6 with just one win. You can argue with the quality of play today, but you can't complain about the character and commitment to get that equaliser. If you can combine that mentality with better players then there should be improvement.

Now that GA is completing his first full season I'd expect him to apply his lessons learned to recruitment, training and tactics for next season. If he doesn't, then we need to have the conversation about replacing him. If he does, then it was well worth keeping him around. I assume, since we extended his contract, there are no plans to ditch him.

As I said earlier in the thread, there were many people on here wanting Tommy Wright to take over last time around. If you want eye-bleeding football he's certainly your man, but he proved pretty quickly at Killie he would have been the wrong man.  Likewise, if fans had had their way, Wee Tommy would have been sent packing in his first couple of season and we'd never have had that success.

I remember people complaining about McCall's style of play when we were finishing 2nd and 3rd in the league. I pointed out then you should enjoy it and remember it because we tend to be a 7th or 8th best kinda team and that level of success wouldn't last.

This has been a weird Covid season. Not as weird as last season, but it's still had an impact on training, on match days and on killing off the reserve/youth teams which has hampered development.

It's certainly not been a classic, but if we finish above 6th, it's been OK. Especially given all the chat pre-season that there would only be one top six spot up for grabs after Aberdeen and Hibs took 4th and 5th. In fact, based on my last 50+ years of watching, it's probably slightly above average. But that doesn't mean I don't want it to improve on the run-in and next season.

First things first, though - let's get 2 or 3 wins post-split and see where that takes us.

[Haggischomper]

Fantastic. Keyboard hardmen are back!!

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[grizzlyg]

Main thing is top 6 which is great. However let's not kid ourselves that GA has done great job. His style of football,  post match interviews...team selections are bonkers........but........considering we were in danger of slipping into play offs I am mightily relieved but things defo need to be improved  ...COYW

[joewarkfanclub]

That was another tough watch today, particularly in the first half where we played literally zero football and restricted ourselves to one long range shot at goal all half. Folk can point to the pitch as an excuse, but Livvy seemed to manage to pass it around fine on it and were well worthy of their first half lead, albeit it came from another poor mistake from Carroll who got his body shape all wrong.

Second half was a little better and at least we looked a little more dangerous until we gifted them their second by not closing down quick enough. Why it took GA until nearly 70 minutes to ring the changes, only he knows. But ultimately he did make them and the one pleasing thing about the day was the character the players showed to keep going and dig out the result.

Absolutely delighted to get the point and make top 6. With only 1 point between ourselves, Ross County and United, a European spot has to be the target. It would also be nice if we could put in a few more performances like last week and much less like todays.

Longer term, GA will now be our manager going forward whether we like it or not. Lets hope he has a development plan that will make us easier on the eye next season.

[Yabba's Turd]

4 hours ago, Haggischomper said:

Fantastic. Keyboard hardmen are back!!

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

Not for long mate

[Kmac]

In normal circumstances, a goal with the last act of the game to take us into the top six would have been met with utter delight and delight alone however I, like many others, believe it may just have prolonged a problem. 
There is no escaping the fact that we are AWFUL to watch. In a season littered with poor performances, yesterday was approaching top 3 greatest hits material.

Again, time and again, I come back to the board. 
Record earnings last year, no debt, budgeting for 10th and now finishing minimum 6th (an extra 300/400k) - extra post split gate money from at least one of the uglies. 
How do we plan to use it? 
For me, giving Alexander another summer to rebuild the squad shouldn’t be on the cards as it will simply alienate the support base even further given his style of football and THAT is what we cannot afford. 
We’re going to need virtually an entire new back line and midfield next season and a starting center forward - he isn’t the man I’d trust to do that in a way that will A) ensure we stay in the league B) Be open to change enough to refocus the style of play to something that doesn’t boil the blood

[C&A not the shop]

Here's the thing, you know what's entertaining getting top 6 with an injury time equaliser.

One of the best games at Fir Park was pumping new rangers 3-0 in the play off. Were we good that season? No. Did we produce a moment that made it all worthwhile? I'd say so.

If you're not enjoying  the games anymore it may be more to do with you than what's on the park because the overall quality is much the same as it has been over the past 15 years.

[bobbybingo]

Alexander does pretty well at all his clubs, then hits a bad run and gets sacked. There's a recurring theme of fans/boards talking about negative tactics and style of play, but they also seem to think his dismissals were a bit unfair and possibly a mistake. 

This wee bit regarding his time at Scunthorpe (5th in League One when he got the bullet, all but lost their Football League status yesterday) sounds familiar. 

"Once again, the campaign started off looking good as they played like a confident team who would be promotion favourites, from the beginning of the season up until the New Year. And once again, his side hit a poor run of form at an almost identical time – is there something to that, or is it just coincidence? Who knows?"

[Yorkyred]

16 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Alexander does pretty well at all his clubs, then hits a bad run and gets sacked. There's a recurring theme of fans/boards talking about negative tactics and style of play, but they also seem to think his dismissals were a bit unfair and possibly a mistake. 

This wee bit regarding his time at Scunthorpe (5th in League One when he got the bullet, all but lost their Football League status yesterday) sounds familiar. 

"Once again, the campaign started off looking good as they played like a confident team who would be promotion favourites, from the beginning of the season up until the New Year. And once again, his side hit a poor run of form at an almost identical time – is there something to that, or is it just coincidence? Who knows?"

Probably coincidence in truth. I honestly go back and forth on Alexander and given he’s already had a summer to rebuild there has to be question marks although any new manager needs a couple of summers to clear out players signed by a previous manager. The worry is a good number that have not performed are actually  Alexander signings. I continue to be baffled by the decisions made regarding midfield and the defence is a complete mess. But it’s not all negative, he has also signed some decent players and we’ve finished top six. It’s a mix of emotions but is that not the norm at a club like Motherwell ? How often in the last 30 years has there been a faultless manager with a group of players playing attractive football and a fanbase that saw no issues ? I’m guessing not that often. If we lose every remaining game I still  think he will be here for the start of next season, I’m just not sure I’m confident it will go well.

[AllyMax]

I really don't think it's a matter of fans (and I include myself in this) being unhappy that we made top six. What I can't get my head around is that people seem to think there is a choice to be mde between playing decent fitba' and losing and playing shite fitba' and winning. Do you seriously think that over the course of a season, playing five defenders, two midfielders and three up front, pumping the ball back to front and trying to defend on the odd occasion we score would win us games ?  In the first half of the season, at times we may not have looked great (or even good) but we won games and got the bulk of our points with a midfield on the park that sometimes saw the ball. What does everyone consider our best performance of the season ? For me, it was against Hearts, where we pressed high and passed the ball. If we can do that against the 3rd best team in the league, we can do it against Ross County and Livingston. After Watt left, Alexander went into this spiral of stupid formations (especially in the cup against Hibs), chopping and changing defenders etc. The way some people are describing our 'top six success' you would think that not winning for three months and playing hoofball was a necessary component of that success.  

If we played our best players in their best positions, against the majority of the SPL, we'd be better than them.  Not making stupid formation changes and using the ball properly would have got us top six a lot sooner. Box to box punts for 90 mins died along with Airdrie.

[Yorkyred]

2 minutes ago, AllyMax said:

I really don't think it's a matter of fans (and I include myself in this) being unhappy that we made top six. What I can't get my head around is that people seem to think there is a choice to be mde between playing decent fitba' and losing and playing shite fitba' and winning. Do you seriously think that over the course of a season, playing five defenders, two midfielders and three up front, pumping the ball back to front and trying to defend on the odd occasion we score would win us games ?  In the first half of the season, at times we may not have looked great (or even good) but we won games and got the bulk of our points with a midfield on the park that sometimes saw the ball. What does everyone consider our best performance of the season ? For me, it was against Hearts, where we pressed high and passed the ball. If we can do that against the 3rd best team in the league, we can do it against Ross County and Livingston. After Watt left, Alexander went into this spiral of stupid formations (especially in the cup against Hibs), chopping and changing defenders etc. The way some people are describing our 'top six success' you would think that not winning for three months and playing hoofball was a necessary component of that success.  

If we played our best players in their best positions, against the majority of the SPL, we'd be better than them.  Not making stupid formation changes and using the ball properly would have got us top six a lot sooner. Box to box punts for 90 mins died along with Airdrie.

I actually think the opening game against Hibs showed what we could do, ok we lost but if we’d carried on playing like that I would have been more than happy.

[bobbybingo]

13 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Probably coincidence in truth. I honestly go back and forth on Alexander and given he’s already had a summer to rebuild there has to be question marks although any new manager needs a couple of summers to clear out players signed by a previous manager. The worry is a good number that have not performed are actually  Alexander signings. I continue to be baffled by the decisions made regarding midfield and the defence is a complete mess. But it’s not all negative, he has also signed some decent players and we’ve finished top six. It’s a mix of emotions but is that not the norm at a club like Motherwell ? How often in the last 30 years has there been a faultless manager with a group of players playing attractive football and a fanbase that saw no issues ? I’m guessing not that often. If we lose every remaining game I still  think he will be here for the start of next season, I’m just not sure I’m confident it will go well.

It just seems to me, you kinda know what you're getting with Alexander, it's just a question of whether that floats your boat or not. I don't see him getting us relegated, which has to be the first consideration when we appoint a manager. Cup win? Who knows, but if that's the measurement of success at Motherwell, god help anyone coming in. 

We're obviously dealing in bargain basement players (whether that's through financial necessity or boardroom choice) so signings are bound to be hit and miss. Style of play/tactics is the big issue. He's shown no real sign of trying to change the way he goes about getting results - will that change if he stays long enough? He's only spent 2 or 3 years everywhere else, which makes it difficult to know, although that's an eternity for most managers these days.

Stick or twist?

[Ya Bezzer!]

43 minutes ago, AllyMax said:

I really don't think it's a matter of fans (and I include myself in this) being unhappy that we made top six. What I can't get my head around is that people seem to think there is a choice to be mde between playing decent fitba' and losing and playing shite fitba' and winning.

Aberdeen and Hibs have fired relatively successful managers for not playing 'attractive' football and paid the consequences.

I think fans need to be careful about what they wish for.

Shaun Maloney is playing a different kind of football to Alexander and they are worse than us and have hardly had a shot at goal the whole time he's been there.

Alexander is undoubtedly a football pragmatist but I think given the quality of the squad, which is poor, I think he's done a decent job.

I think a lot of our fans are a bit parochial.  They are blaming Alexander for issues that are endemic to the whole of Scottish game and that are the result of unhalted regression over decades.

No one is saying we are a great team or great to watch but I think that's more than a bit unfair and some cases completely delusional.

[mfc88]

Delighted to be in the top six and what a moment to make it. I would not have left the game happy if we had ended up top 6 by losing but other results going our way, so glad it played out the way it did.

Didn't think I'd say this a year ago but lamie is by far our best defender, sad to see him leaving and he has proven to be very professional since signing PCA with Dundee. But it does concern me to watch the third first team regular sign for a rival in 1 season.

Can't lie it has been a frustrating half season. The sale of watt for a few quid could have ended up costing us a hell of a lot more. The omission of slattery was baffling, his return is the reason we are where we are now. The repeatedly flat midfield. The dropping of woolery as soon as he hits some form. The defensive errors have been comical. Saving subs till 80+ minutes.

I could point to many other frustrations which make it easy to see why so many are calling for the manager to go. Had we not been in this position, I would be too. This buys him some time for me, but mistakes need to be learned from. For his flaws GA does have other good management qualities which kept us up last season and got us into a great position up until the last few months and let's not forget managers can learn and improve too, we need to see this though.

How we perform the end of this season and start next will be critical in that sense. We got away with it this season but we can't go a full round of league fixtures picking up 5 points and expect to remain in the league.

As it happens we are where we are. Weird that we're there but hey ho, let's see what we can make of it. Hopefully now the pressure of a poor league placing is off we can try a few things, set up and play a bit more freely. 4th is very achievable.

[Kmcalpin]

Great result but not performance yesterday.  At this stage of the season its results that count. I didn't make the game but have seen highlights and spoken to those who were there.

Ordinarily I'd feel sorry for our opponents in such circumstances but not yesterday. PPV prices were way over the top at £20; in short a complete rip off. David Martindale's pre match comments also riled me but of course his intention was to unsettle our team. The antics of Max Stryjek were worthy of a thespian and in the end they came back to haunt him and his team mates.  

The football may not have been great quality but the team showed commitment and determination.  Pleased for the fans who made the trip to be able to enjoy the end of game celebrations.

[bobbybingo]

31 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I think fans need to be careful about what they wish for.

Absolutely. But wishing/hoping for better is a huge part of what keeps fans going to places like Fir Park.