Ross County v Motherwell 07/05/2022

[SteelmaninOZ]

Could this one be a three points we need?

 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

Could this one be a three points we need?

 

3 points are a must to give us a chance, and I don't care how we get them our usual shit fest for 89 mins and a lamie header in injury time to win it will do for me 

[mfc]

Ross county will be up for it and we won't,I can only see another defeat here.

[dennyc]

Hopefully we set up like at Utd as that was a definite improvement despite the result. Even Alexander suggested that much in his post match "analysis".

Mugabi looked much more comfortable moved in a place. And O'Hara did fine in right defence. Strangely Carroll also looked more secure in a set up that actually suited the players.  VVD hopefully adds the killer touch and Tierney deserves a run out just in behind him. And please, no Efford or imposter Goss.

So in all probability Mugabi will start at right back, Goss will be the main man in midfield and Tierney will be dropped for VVD with Efford also starting. Under Alexander would that really surprise anyone?

[grizzlyg]

3pts a must, win that and I actually fancy us v hearts as they will be focussing on cup final. However with 2 dodgy full backs,  ojala and Goss in midfield I ain't confident.COYW

[joewarkfanclub]

Really tough place to go at the best of times but they will be full of confidence and we are on a horrendous run......

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, mfc said:

Ross county will be up for it and we won't,I can only see another defeat here.

They're playing quite well just now but have enjoyed an incredible run of good luck underpinned by a number of soft penalties. I don't care if they're up for it or not so long as we get a bit of good luck and take the 3 points.

[mfc]

13 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

They're playing quite well just now but have enjoyed an incredible run of good luck underpinned by a number of soft penalties. I don't care if they're up for it or not so long as we get a bit of good luck and take the 3 points.

For as bad as we have been lately,it's fair to say that luck hasn't been on our side,this would be the ideal game to get a rub of the green.

[David]

We badly need someone to put away one of the chances we've been making. We've hit the woodwork a couple of times lately, and if those go in it makes all the difference.

[El Grew]

Mixed record against Ross County in Dingwall:

P15; W6; D3; L6: F19; A23; GD-4

Not much in it however they are clearly in much better fettle than us right now and with home advantage will most likely win.  Hope I’m wrong because I doubt we’ll get anything from our final two games.

[C&A not the shop]

With united playing County, Rangers and Celtic and County playing us, United and Rangers there's a very real chance that 6 points would be enough for 5th (possibly even 4th) 

Wild that for all the shit of 2022 we are still two wins away from what could be a very good season league position wise.

[Haggischomper]

Ross county will be up for it and we won't,I can only see another defeat here.

Why won't we be up for it?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[mfc]

Just now, Haggischomper said:

Why won't we be up for it?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

When was the last game we were up for it?there's been little evidence of it of late,this would be the ideal game for us to be at it and put a performance in.

[David]

9 hours ago, mfc said:

When was the last game we were up for it?there's been little evidence of it of late,this would be the ideal game for us to be at it and put a performance in.

I thought we looked up for it at the weekend against United. We just didn't convert on any of the chances we got, which seems to be our major problem since selling our top scorer in January.

[dennyc]

2 hours ago, David said:

I thought we looked up for it at the weekend against United. We just didn't convert on any of the chances we got, which seems to be our major problem since selling our top scorer in January.

Not saying we were not a better team when Watt was with us........he showed us on Saturday how good his hold up play is.... but to highlight his departure as the major reason we have struggled to score does not really stand up. Which truthfully did surprise me.

Someone can maybe check my arithmetic but your post got me looking over the results post and pre Watt. In the 15 League games since Watt left Motherwell  the team has scored 14 goals. So less than a goal a game which is just not good enough. By comparison, in the 15 League games before he left we scored a grand total of 14 goals. The exact same. Not looked up how many of those he scored but he had gone off the boil following his excellent start to the season. And his scoring record has not returned at Utd. Certainly no more talk of a Scotland call up.

In summary I think the decline is down to much more than letting Watt leave. Add to that the fact that our opponents have sussed out our tactics/set up and our paltry goal return is no longer good enough to scrape wins. Our determination to stick with certain players and an undermanned midfield became predictable and hurt us. Unsurprisingly our improved performance on Saturday coincided with a long overdue change of set up. For the first time in ages I thought we deserved something from the game.  VVD also deserves his arse kicked for picking up needless yellow cards which meant he missed two winnable games where we created chances but took zero points. To me VVD had taken over as our major goal threat even before Watt left.

Regards "supposed" targets.

Top 6.

Achieved so well done for that. But let's not go overboard. We are in a poor League.  Europe and 4th/5th was entirely possible given our league position pre break. Might still be secured but it will be a disappointment if that does not work out and our points gathering earlier in the season is not properly reflected in the table.

Cup Results.

Not really much of a target or achievement reaching a Quarter Final.

League cup we were rotten and were lucky to qualify from the Group. We then went out to the first Premiership team we faced. And that team are about to be relegated.

Scottish Cup we struggled to beat a mid table championship team at Fir Park, played well to defeat a bottom six Premiership team at Fir Park and then blew it at Fir Park against  another bottom six Premiership team in the Quarter Final. So despite the hype, our Cup Results were poor and in both cases a great chance to make a financially rewarding trip to Hampden was missed.

Targets need to set a real challenge. Not so sure ours did. 

 

[Winning by Name]

45 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Not saying we were not a better team when Watt was with us........he showed us on Saturday how good his hold up play is.... but to highlight his departure as the major reason we have struggled to score does not really stand up. Which truthfully did surprise me.

Someone can maybe check my arithmetic but your post got me looking over the results post and pre Watt. In the 15 League games since Watt left Motherwell  the team has scored 14 goals. So less than a goal a game which is just not good enough. By comparison, in the 15 League games before he left we scored a grand total of 14 goals. The exact same. Not looked up how many of those he scored but he had gone off the boil following his excellent start to the season. And his scoring record has not returned at Utd. Certainly no more talk of a Scotland call up.

In summary I think the decline is down to much more than letting Watt leave. Add to that the fact that our opponents have sussed out our tactics/set up and our paltry goal return is no longer good enough to scrape wins. Our determination to stick with certain players and an undermanned midfield became predictable and hurt us. Unsurprisingly our improved performance on Saturday coincided with a long overdue change of set up. For the first time in ages I thought we deserved something from the game.  VVD also deserves his arse kicked for picking up needless yellow cards which meant he missed two winnable games where we created chances but took zero points. To me VVD had taken over as our major goal threat even before Watt left.

Regards "supposed" targets.

Top 6.

Achieved so well done for that. But let's not go overboard. We are in a poor League.  Europe and 4th/5th was entirely possible given our league position pre break. Might still be secured but it will be a disappointment if that does not work out and our points gathering earlier in the season is not properly reflected in the table.

Cup Results.

Not really much of a target or achievement reaching a Quarter Final.

League cup we were rotten and were lucky to qualify from the Group. We then went out to the first Premiership team we faced. And that team are about to be relegated.

Scottish Cup we struggled to beat a mid table championship team at Fir Park, played well to defeat a bottom six Premiership team at Fir Park and then blew it at Fir Park against  another bottom six Premiership team in the Quarter Final. So despite the hype, our Cup Results were poor and in both cases a great chance to make a financially rewarding trip to Hampden was missed.

Targets need to set a real challenge. Not so sure ours did. 

 

Agree 100% about the setting of targets at least to be a bit stretching

[bobbybingo]

17 hours ago, C&A not the shop said:

With united playing County, Rangers and Celtic and County playing us, United and Rangers there's a very real chance that 6 points would be enough for 5th (possibly even 4th) 

Wild that for all the shit of 2022 we are still two wins away from what could be a very good season league position wise.

True. We're also one defeat - against County - away from our season being finished, cos there's no way we're taking those 6 points from the last 2 games. A draw just about keeps us in it, but we have to take the chance ourselves and stop relying on others to hand it to us. I'd rather we lost on Saturday while really going for it, than playing the percentages and hoping.

[David]

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

Not saying we were not a better team when Watt was with us........he showed us on Saturday how good his hold up play is.... but to highlight his departure as the major reason we have struggled to score does not really stand up. Which truthfully did surprise me.

Someone can maybe check my arithmetic but your post got me looking over the results post and pre Watt. In the 15 League games since Watt left Motherwell  the team has scored 14 goals. So less than a goal a game which is just not good enough. By comparison, in the 15 League games before he left we scored a grand total of 14 goals. The exact same. Not looked up how many of those he scored but he had gone off the boil following his excellent start to the season. And his scoring record has not returned at Utd. Certainly no more talk of a Scotland call up.

His departure is a fairly prominent reason why we've hit the skids post-January. Is it the only reason? Of course not, and I certainly didn't say it was. But there's a reason why he was being talked about for Scotland, and it wasn't just down to his goals. Anyone who watched us when he was in the team could clearly see he was one of, if not the best player in our team. 

No team, much less a club with our resources, can afford to lose a player of that importance to them and not miss a beat.

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

In summary I think the decline is down to much more than letting Watt leave. Add to that the fact that our opponents have sussed out our tactics/set up and our paltry goal return is no longer good enough to scrape wins. Our determination to stick with certain players and an undermanned midfield became predictable and hurt us. Unsurprisingly our improved performance on Saturday coincided with a long overdue change of set up. For the first time in ages I thought we deserved something from the game.  VVD also deserves his arse kicked for picking up needless yellow cards which meant he missed two winnable games where we created chances but took zero points. To me VVD had taken over as our major goal threat even before Watt left.

I'm not sure I buy into opponents "sussing out" our tactics, as if Alexander is somehow a fraud or one-trick pony in a league full of tactical masterminds. It's worth pointing out that while we were busy being shit, the opposition, far from sussing us out, were busy being shit as well! If this season is going to remembered for anything, it's going to be the fine margins that separated the majority of the league.

Our squad this season is bloated, for reasons mentioned elsewhere, and the squads of the teams around us are the same. There's a lot of deadwood that needs removed in the summer now that the situation has returned to normal. For the time being at least.

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

Regards "supposed" targets.

Top 6.

Achieved so well done for that. But let's not go overboard. We are in a poor League.  Europe and 4th/5th was entirely possible given our league position pre break. Might still be secured but it will be a disappointment if that does not work out and our points gathering earlier in the season is not properly reflected in the table.

Let's not go overboard? We're playing in a league where the top six should realistically be any combination of Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United and Aberdeen. By quite some margin.

Regardless of how poor those around us were, we still made it into the top six, and we're guaranteed the prize money for finishing 6th. Last time I checked that money is still the same even if the teams around us haven't been great. Which means that finishing in the top six is still worth just as much as it would had we been playing in a league full of teams playing really well.

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

Cup Results.

Not really much of a target or achievement reaching a Quarter Final.

League cup we were rotten and were lucky to qualify from the Group. We then went out to the first Premiership team we faced. And that team are about to be relegated.

Scottish Cup we struggled to beat a mid table championship team at Fir Park, played well to defeat a bottom six Premiership team at Fir Park and then blew it at Fir Park against  another bottom six Premiership team in the Quarter Final. So despite the hype, our Cup Results were poor and in both cases a great chance to make a financially rewarding trip to Hampden was missed.

Targets need to set a real challenge. Not so sure ours did. 

The cup is the cup. It all depends on the draw, and how the games go on the day.  I'd love a cup run, but it's certainly not something I consider a concrete target.

Our target every season from the outset is finishing 10th or better. Once we know that is in the bag we then start looking to potentially finishing in the top six. 

It seems the general consensus this season is to play down the accomplishments of the team and manager, and focus on the failures, which is fine if that's how people want to play it. But it doesn't change the fact that we've achieved a top six finish this season, with the money that comes with it. 

We could easily be in the same position as Aberdeen, or Hibs. Or even Dundee. Then the moaners would really have grounds for their negativity!

[C&A not the shop]

1 hour ago, bobbybingo said:

True. We're also one defeat - against County - away from our season being finished, cos there's no way we're taking those 6 points from the last 2 games. A draw just about keeps us in it, but we have to take the chance ourselves and stop relying on others to hand it to us. I'd rather we lost on Saturday while really going for it, than playing the percentages and hoping.

Aye, lose this one and I'm not sure I'd bother going to the Hearts game. Can do without the negativity I my life, and if we do turn in a great performance and get a result it would he even more frustrating.

It's the hope that gets you.

[Great Balls of Shire]

15 hours ago, mfc said:

When was the last game we were up for it?there's been little evidence of it of late,this would be the ideal game for us to be at it and put a performance in.

last time was Saturday v united

[mfc]

14 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

last time was Saturday v united

If that's up for it then god help us

[dennyc]

9 hours ago, David said:

I thought we looked up for it at the weekend against United. We just didn't convert on any of the chances we got, which seems to be our major problem since selling our top scorer in January.

Merely pointed out you were incorrect in suggesting our downturn was due to losing our top scorer in January. Or am I misreading the above comment.

We have scored as many goals in the games since Watt left as we did in that same number of games immediately before he left. And created as many chances. You failed to respond to that fact and instead seem to be yet again using Watt's departure to deflect from how poor Alexander has been in the past four months, if not before when points gained offset some awful outings. Teams, even poor teams, worked out how to negate our one dimensional approach and until Saturday Alexander showed no willingness or ability to try anything different. He did adapt on Saturday and in my opinion it was our best performance in months. Still a defeat, but this time a defeat that was not deserved. 

Oh and just to emphasise why top six should be a minimum expectation and not the Holy Grail, the last time your projected  top 6 worked out as you suggested, in any order,  looks to have been  1991-92. So history does not support that reasoning either.

Watt's departure is not the major reason we have failed to turn up for most matches since he left.  

[AllyMax]

20 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Merely pointed out you were incorrect in suggesting our downturn was due to losing our top scorer in January. Or am I misreading the above comment.

We have scored as many goals in the games since Watt left as we did in that same number of games immediately before he left. And created as many chances. You failed to respond to that fact and instead seem to be yet again using Watt's departure to deflect from how poor Alexander has been in the past four months, if not before when points gained offset some awful outings. Teams, even poor teams, worked out how to negate our one dimensional approach and until Saturday Alexander showed no willingness or ability to try anything different. He did adapt on Saturday and in my opinion it was our best performance in months. Still a defeat, but this time a defeat that was not deserved. 

Oh and just to emphasise why top six should be a minimum expectation and not the Holy Grail, the last time your projected  top 6 worked out as you suggested, in any order,  looks to have been  1991-92. So history does not support that reasoning either.

Watt's departure is not the major reason we have failed to turn up for most matches since he left.  

Watt, as well as his goals, was pretty much our only mechanism for keeping possession and getting the ball and men forward,  Without that, we're under even more pressure than we were in the first half of the season.

[dennyc]

2 minutes ago, AllyMax said:

Watt, as well as his goals, was pretty much our only mechanism for keeping possession and getting the ball and men forward,  Without that, we're under even more pressure than we were in the first half of the season.

We can't retain the ball because we are usually out numbered in midfield and our defenders and goalkeeper are instructed to hoof the ball long in the hope we get a break. Or for Woolery to try to get his head to. Reminds me of the Fraser Kerr days. When VVD is not suspended that sometimes works because he can hold the ball up every bit as well as Watt did. Decent midfielders like Slattery and O'Hara were sidelined by Alexander because he had no use for them. Much better to play headless chickens like Efford who will chase after those punts upfield.

[Yabba's Turd]

It's not Efford's fault, but man does he look like a fish out of water