ECL Fir Park Motherwell v Sligo Rovers 21/07/22

[Ya Bezzer!]

6 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I normally agree with a lot of what you post, but I cant agree that tonight looked as good as  St Mirren, St Johnstone etc. I thought they looked more akin to a championship side, which makes tonights result even harder to take.

Some 'Premiership' standard results this season so far.

Hibs 0 Falkirk 1

Greenock Morton 1 Hibs 1

Partick 1 Kilmarnock 1

Livingston 1 Inverness 2

Ross County 1 Buckie Thistle 1

St Johnstone 0 Annan Athletic 0

Queen of the South 2 St Johnstone 2

St Mirren 0 Arbroath 1

Airdrieonians 2 St Mirren 0

Motherwell 0 Sligo 1

I said before the match I didn't have much confidence having seen us struggle against Glentoran and Coleraine, both poorer teams than Sligo, and us with better personnel then.  Then you go and look at other Scottish results in Europe in recent times like Kilmarnock being eliminated by Connah's Quay or Hearts going out the Scottish Cup to Brora Rangers or St Johnstone going out to Kelty Hearts and the penny should start to drop.

From 3rd down our league is trash. 'Premiership' standard is virtually a meaningless phrase.  There is no standard in the premiership.   

 

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

5 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

That chant - or any other bigoted, racist, ect chant - should never be heard at FP. 

Well when you have a street march before the match you are going to attract a certain type.

[MJC]

7 hours ago, Stevie73 said:

Alan Burrows listen to the fans and the stats, get this guy out of our club.

A bit of a side issue, but why is Burrows always on the trackside during matches? I get that he can go where he wants but it just seems abnormal for a Chief Exec to be down there.

Perhaps he will appoint himself as next manager when GA leaves, let’s face it he couldn’t do any worse.

[wellsince75]

We don't learn from our mistakes.
4-3-3 doesn't several  players. Many are  out of their position 
We don't have the ability to get ourselves up for big games.
We don't create many clear chances against any level of opposition. 
GA's assessment of the game was disingenuous .

 

I don't see it changing.  Will we maintain our win record under GA ?  it's hard to fathom how he's managed it, but he has and may well continue. 

 

[David]

2 hours ago, Kmac said:

We have been staring at a weak frontline since January and Watt’s departure and done nothing to address it. We have known we needed a centre half but allowed Lamie back into the fold (fair enough but if he was deemed surplus to requirements, why is he the best we have to offer now?). We have known left full back is an issue but have done nothing to fix it. 

This part comes down to two things, quite simply. Money and availability. 

It's easy to say that Watt left and we've not replaced him properly, but are we to assume the recruitment team haven't been trying? A club of our size and with our budget needs a few things to fall in our favour to sign a player of Watt's quality. We can't really afford to buy them if they're currently showing the kind of form we'd want. We need to find players who are at a loose end, not favoured by their own club, have talent, are affordable, and most importantly they don't have any other offers on the table that better what we can provide them with.

In short, we need to take a gamble. 

Remember when Watt signed? He'd just left CSKA Sofia in Bulgaria by mutual consent after six months or so. Before that he'd left St Johnstone after scoring three league goals for them all season. 

The opinion when we signed him was very much split if I recall correctly. He was considered a waster who was still living on a goal for Celtic against Barcelona years ago. 

Yes, it paid off, but it could so easily have been another waste of money and time. We gambled, and won to a certain degree. 

So, we need to keep scouring the market until the next potential winning gamble pops up and circumstances work in our favour. In the past we've slagged off the club for just signing any old shite, so we can't get all pissy when they appear to be keeping the powder dry for a player that will fit the bill. 

The same goes for the other positions you mention. It's not as easy as identifying a position and "fixing it." The right player needs to be available at the right price. Look at other clubs with much more money who still can't get it right. It's not as easy as some people think.

[supermarv]

31 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

We don't learn from our mistakes.
4-3-3 doesn't several  players. Many are  out of their position 
We don't have the ability to get ourselves up for big games.
We don't create many clear chances against any level of opposition. 
GA's assessment of the game was disingenuous .

 

I don't see it changing.  Will we maintain our win record under GA ?  it's hard to fathom how he's managed it, but he has and may well continue. 

 

The thing that frustrates me is it’s not even a proper 433 with 2 wingers on the touch line attacking with full backs supporting. A lot of the time both Carroll and McGinn had the ball and were forced inside when loads of space were out wide but nobody to start an attack with as Spittal on the left was constantly in the middle, and McGinn had the same when Shields went off in the second half nobody to attack with and let’s face it Paul McGinn is a solid steady eddy but he’s no James Tavernier who even plays with someone in front of him. 
 

I take into consideration past posts about us probably trying to bring in players. Most Motherwell fans accept it can be hard to attract the top players, but for me the 3 so far aren’t anywhere near enough and maybe with the exception of Morris who seems decent the other 2 weren’t needed and won’t have a great impact. I just hope last night makes him go out and bring in a couple new fresh faces particularly players with some pace, but after his comments last night I won’t hold my breath. 
 

It is so disheartening that we got a great crowd last night the place was buzzing, European Thursday night back at Fir Park and a chance to generate a lot of income for the club and we are served that on the park but I’ve seen too many on Twitter saying won’t be buying ST etc. some people need to grow up we don’t support or watch Motherwell and expect success just the players give 110%. Yes the football may not be great at the moment and the manager has next week to save his job properly but we need to get behind the team and not be booing at HT it’s quite embarrassing only 45 minutes into a new season to hear boos ringing out.

[Benson]

9 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

And yet he was involved in just about everything positive we did by your estimation. How shite must the rest of the team have been?

Maybe he could have done better but at least he never hid like a lot of others, on his first start I will side with the positives 

[David]

14 minutes ago, supermarv said:

I just hope last night makes him go out and bring in a couple new fresh faces particularly players with some pace, but after his comments last night I won’t hold my breath. 

I really hope it doesn't.

If we are running the recruitment at the club on a reactionary basis, where we rush out to sign players based on individual match performances then we have bigger problems that I thought. 

We have a plan in place, and we're looking to fill positions and skillsets identified long before now I hope. Let's stick to the plan and make sure that anyone we bring in adds something that the manager is looking for.

McGinn is clearly a replacement for O'Donnell. I think it's clear the manager doesn't really rate him as highly as others do. Spittal is a decent premiership level player, and I think he'll add more than the midfielders we've let go. 

Morris I still don't know enough about, and we've not seen anywhere near enough of him to judge. I'll cast an opinion on him after ten games or so.

[twistandshout1983]

Best team won on the night, was a result that I am not too surprised about , and as an earlier post mentioned I believe Sligo would beat half the sides in our league also

Once again the fans turned up in a big game, and the players didnt.  Has been happening all too often in the last 10 years or so, playoffs and the two cup runs in 2017/2018 aside

Hopefully we get a result in Ireland next week and turn this around but not too confident that will be the case 

[MJC]

14 minutes ago, supermarv said:

It is so disheartening that we got a good crowd last night the place was buzzing, European Thursday night back at Fir Park and a chance to generate a lot of income for the club and we are served that on the park but I’ve seen too many on Twitter saying won’t be buying ST etc. some people need to grow up we don’t support or watch Motherwell and expect success just the players give 110%. Yes the football may not be great at the moment and the manager has next week to save his job properly but we need to get behind the team and not be booing at HT it’s quite embarrassing only 45 minutes into a new season to hear boos ringing out.

How often has that happened that we get a good crowd in only to be completely let down? European games more often than not see that happen. Think Nancy, Odense, PAO, Levante, Kuban Krasnador, Stjarnan and now last night. All of those games got big crowds in, there was a sense of excitement and anticipation and all of them ended in a damp squib. Seven games with a grand total of TWO goals scored and not a single win among them. 
 

Europe for us is nothing but a bit of fluff at the start of a season. Glorified friendlies that attract big crowds and end in embarrassment.

Give me the League Cup group stages any day of the week.

[Benson]

Still doesn't know his best team and if he's still here at the end of the season,still won't, formation doesn't work,weekly tombola doesn't help and fitting who he thinks is his best players into unnatural positions just to accommodate them doesn't help either,

[David]

2 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

Give me the League Cup group stages any day of the week.

Really? Result and performance aside, last night was class. The march to the stadium, the fan display, the atmosphere for ten minutes before the main stand started booing our own team and manager.

We get none of that playing against Annan in front of 3,000 fans. 

But hey, maybe that's what the fans want? I actually heard people behind me in the main stand last complain that there was too many people at the game!

[Kmcalpin]

10 hours ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:

We were massively underprepared for tonight’s game.

He has also said that we need more quality up top but hinted we have enough to deal with Sligo. Absolute bollocks.

Spot on. A few of us had concerns pre match about lack of bounce games to prepare the team.  That coupled with the fact that Sligo's tactics and and strengths seemed to take us by surprise points to a serious lack of preparation and that needs to be investigated. In truth we were beaten before a ball was even kicked. GA has now had one and a bit 2 windows to sign another out and striker and hasn't done so ...so far. That could cost us a good few thousand pounds. We really are powder puff up front without a fit and interested Van Veen. Yes, his comments about us having enough firepower to deal with Sligo were, as you say, absolute bollocks. No other word for it.

Despite losing 1-0 we were lucky. They had perhaps the 3 best chances of the game and had a strong penalty claim turned down. The tie could easily have been completely lost last night.

Yes, we have to qualify our comments by stating the caveat we were short of match fitness, but several features stood out for me. Poor defending; a slow and predictable midfield (we really are short of pace there); poor set pieces; a toothless strikeforce; and playing a type of football (long high balls) for which we are not suited.     

[The African]

The most disappointing thing from my perspective was the fact that we were obviously underprepared for what should have been considered an extremely important fixture. We are all aware that it is our first competitive fixture of the season, but this fails as an excuse because we were so obviously aware of it. Whatever we did to prepare, it obviously wasn't successful.

As for hopes for progressing, we were behind for over an hour and threatened very like. It would be very optimistic to think that seven days will make too much of a difference in performance. 

[wellfan]

Too many happy clappers here trying to defend the indefensible. We’ve been absolutely brutal since December, and Alexander would’ve likely been fired had we not scraped into the top 6 and European qualification. He, therefore, rightly got the summer to turn things around. However, after going to the Partick and Sligo games, I’d suggest we’re worse than last season. He needs to be shown the door now. His arrogance and cluelessness will see us in a relegation battle. 

[MJC]

1 minute ago, David said:

Really? Result and performance aside, last night was class. The march to the stadium, the fan display, the atmosphere for ten minutes before the main stand started booing our own team and manager.

We get none of that playing against Annan in front of 3,000 fans. 

But hey, maybe that's what the fans want? I actually heard people behind me in the main stand last complain that there was too many people at the game!

Yes, really. At least with the League Cup you know that there is a chance, albeit a slim one, that we could go further or even all the way in that tournament.
 

Fair play to the fans who took part in the march to the stadium before the game, but ultimately I’m more interested in what happens ON the park. And last night what happened on the park simply wasn’t good enough, just like it hasn’t been for far too long. That is why, in my opinion, some started turning on the team/manager because they are sick fed up watching the same laboured, directionless guff and the manager trying to tell them afterwards that it was a good performance.

If you or anyone else take the positives from the atmosphere/occasion last night then that is fair enough, likewise to those who will be travelling to the away leg next week. If that’s what the club and the football is about for you then great. From my point of view I just want to see us put a team on the park that can be the best we possibly can be and be competitive in matches in competitions that match the level we are at.

 

 

[Kmcalpin]

17 minutes ago, David said:

 I actually heard people behind me in the main stand last complain that there was too many people at the game!

Good to see a large crowd last night but as so often happens the team let them down.

Main Stand was an absolute shambles last night and a few emails will no doubt be sent to the club this morning about it, including one from me.  I have no idea about the other 2 home stands. We got to our usual area well before kick off to find others occupying our seats. They refused to move saying they had been told they could sit anywhere - I wonder who told them as we couldn't find any stewards. This situation got steadily worse nearer and after  kick off with folk standing about looking for seats, groups being split up etc. I've seen  many games in a packed Main Stand but this was the worst experience ever. Come on MFC if the Hydro can organise larger crowds with everyone sitting in their correct seats why can't we? Stewarding was totally inadequate.

[MJC]

1 minute ago, wellfan said:

Too many happy clappers here trying to defend the indefensible. We’ve been absolutely brutal since December, and Alexander would’ve likely been fired had we not scraped into the top 6 and European qualification. He, therefore, rightly got the summer to turn things around. However, after going to the Patrick and Sligo games, I’d suggest we’re worse than last season. He needs to be shown the door now. His arrogance and cluelessness will see us in a relegation battle. 

Hear! Hear!

We are most definitely worse than we were this time twelve months ago. We have no Watt to get us the goals from August to December that basically kept us out of relegation trouble last season and haven’t, as far as I can see, brought in anyone so far that is going to improve the team.

I have huge concerns about the season ahead.

[David]

1 minute ago, MJC_mkII said:

Yes, really. At least with the League Cup you know that there is a chance, albeit a slim one, that we could go further or even all the way in that tournament.

But we're still in the league cup, aren't we? It isn't a choice between playing in the league cup or in European competition. So we still have that slim chance of progressing far into that tournament that you mentioned.

2 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

Fair play to the fans who took part in the march to the stadium before the game, but ultimately I’m more interested in what happens ON the park.

It all matters though, doesn't it? Getting a better-than-average crowd will help the club financially, that's for sure. 

3 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

And last night what happened on the park simply wasn’t good enough, just like it hasn’t been for far too long. That is why, in my opinion, some started turning on the team/manager because they are sick fed up watching the same laboured, directionless guff and the manager trying to tell them afterwards that it was a good performance.

And obviously every single fan has the option of doing that. They pay their money and can (within reason) hurl abuse at the team they supposedly support if they wish. One thing that's for sure is that it does absolutely zero good. 

Giving pelters and dogs abuse to the players and manager won't improve anything. 

5 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

If you or anyone else take the positives from the atmosphere/occasion last night then that is fair enough, likewise to those who will be travelling to the away leg next week. If that’s what the club and the football is about for you then great. From my point of view I just want to see us put a team on the park that can be the best we possibly can be and be competitive in matches in competitions that match the level we are at.

I take little positive from the actual game itself. The atmosphere, the fan display, the number of people in attendance is something we can look at from a positive slant. And it's something we wouldn't get in the League Cup group stages.

I wasn't impressed at all with the team, and didn't leave the stadium happy. I just don't see the point in hurling abuse at anyone in general, much less the team I'm supposed to support. I personally think it says more about the person who's making a bit of an arse of themselves by acting up than it does anything else.

8 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Too many happy clappers here trying to defend the indefensible. We’ve been absolutely brutal since December, and Alexander would’ve likely been fired had we not scraped into the top 6 and European qualification. He, therefore, rightly got the summer to turn things around. However, after going to the Patrick and Sligo games, I’d suggest we’re worse than last season. He needs to be shown the door now. His arrogance and cluelessness will see us in a relegation battle. 

First of all, I'd probably rather be a "happy clapper" than a miserable, moaning sod like many of our support seems to be. After all, it's better to be happy than not, right? 

In all seriousness, there was no "happy clappers" last night. Absolutely zero people in the crowd would have been happy with the result. I don't understand why it has to be one or the other. It seems like you either approve of and join in the embarrassing abuse of our manager and players, or you're someone who is stupid and doesn't recognise a terrible display by the team.

Personally, I know we played badly. I wasn't happy. In fact, I was as unhappy as anyone else in the crowd. As soon as that final whistle went I was offski. I wasn't applauding the players, or the manager. They didn't deserve it. The only difference is that I don't see the point in losing the rag in front of women and children and acting like a mentalist. 

You're right, he does deserve the summer window to add to the team, and he did get us into Europe and the top six last season. This season is ground zero. None of what he did last season matters now. And if we hit October or so in bad form and looking like we're in danger of falling into a relegation battle there will be questions asked and most likely a change made. 

But he's not going to be sacked now. After a friendly and European game in July? No chance.

[Spiderpig]

12 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Good to see a large crowd last night but as so often happens the team let them down.

Main Stand was an absolute shambles last night and a few emails will no doubt be sent to the club this morning about it, including one from me.  I have no idea about the other 2 home stands. We got to our usual area well before kick off to find others occupying our seats. They refused to move saying they had been told they could sit anywhere - I wonder who told them as we couldn't find any stewards. This situation got steadily worse nearer and after  kick off with folk standing about looking for seats, groups being split up etc. I've seen  many games in a packed Main Stand but this was the worst experience ever. Come on MFC if the Hydro can organise larger crowds with everyone sitting in their correct seats why can't we? Stewarding was totally inadequate.

Well said Dave it was a shambles the alleged stewards are,a waste of space they do nothing and are not interested in helping anybody, "speak to the club" was the frequent response I heard them dishing out.

For games like that the stewarding has to be robust but I don't know if these guys actually receive any training on how to handle crowds like that, I suspect not for me they just pull on the high viz jacket stand about for a couple of hrs doing feck all and then pocket their wages, the club needs to sort it out.

[David]

21 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Good to see a large crowd last night but as so often happens the team let them down.

Main Stand was an absolute shambles last night and a few emails will no doubt be sent to the club this morning about it, including one from me.  I have no idea about the other 2 home stands. We got to our usual area well before kick off to find others occupying our seats. They refused to move saying they had been told they could sit anywhere - I wonder who told them as we couldn't find any stewards. This situation got steadily worse nearer and after  kick off with folk standing about looking for seats, groups being split up etc. I've seen  many games in a packed Main Stand but this was the worst experience ever. Come on MFC if the Hydro can organise larger crowds with everyone sitting in their correct seats why can't we? Stewarding was totally inadequate.

Aye, that was a nightmare.

The reasoning behind it was the club sold a load of seats to the left hand side of the main stand, then were told by UEFA that they couldn't actually do that, so everyone who had bought tickets for that area had to relocated.

People were getting emails and phone calls from the club on Wednesday and Thursday I believe, and they had to scramble to accommodate everyone. 

Not making excuses for the way it was done, but I'm not surprised to hear that UEFA were playing funny buggers. They have previous for that kind of thing.

[twistandshout1983]

49 minutes ago, MJC_mkII said:

How often has that happened that we get a good crowd in only to be completely let down? European games more often than not see that happen. Think Nancy, Odense, PAO, Levante, Kuban Krasnador, Stjarnan and now last night. All of those games got big crowds in, there was a sense of excitement and anticipation and all of them ended in a damp squib. Seven games with a grand total of TWO goals scored and not a single win among them. 
 

Europe for us is nothing but a bit of fluff at the start of a season. Glorified friendlies that attract big crowds and end in embarrassment.

Give me the League Cup group stages any day of the week.

I see where you are coming from with this

In  2017/2018 and 2019/2020 we won all 4 group games, which can only build confidence 

Might not have the glamour of a euro tie, but as you rightly point out the euro ties you mentioned all ended in defeat which doesnt build confidence 

[ZT_1886]

I would accept ‘not prepared enough’ and ‘not played enough games’ if I hadn’t seen that exact same performance for the last 6 months.

[wellup83]

The most concerning thing for me is that after I left I wasn't even angry. Sub par performances are now becoming the norm and as others have said issues from last season have not been addressed. We are crying out for a central striker and an animal of a centre half. I'm well aware we can't throw money at an in-form 20 goal a season forward but we haven't even taken a punt on an out of favour player of that position (like we did with Watt). Mugabi and Lamie together won't do either. We need a centre half who is vocal, can organise and will knock heads together if things aren't going right at the back. Alexander has until September to address this or we could be in for a tough season. Ending on a positive note I think the new boys will do a job once up to speed. Morris was always looking to go forward although his final ball was erratic. Mcginn for me already looks like an upgrade on O'Donnell and Spittal we've all seen can play when used in the right way. 

[wellfan]

52 minutes ago, David said:

You're right, he does deserve the summer window to add to the team, and he did get us into Europe and the top six last season. This season is ground zero. None of what he did last season matters now. And if we hit October or so in bad form and looking like we're in danger of falling into a relegation battle there will be questions asked and most likely a change made. 

But he's not going to be sacked now. After a friendly and European game in July? No chance.

Why should this season be 'ground zero', though? Our record in 2022 (since Watt left) has been appalling, and nothing has changed. I would agree that it was 'ground zero' if we had signed the right players and changed formation and tactics over the summer, but that has evidently not happened, noting that it should have been Alexander's priorities before our European games.

Just look at the following results history: https://www.flashscore.co.uk/team/motherwell/YuW7ZfMM/results/

Losing last night did not come as a surprise; it was a carbon copy result from the lacklustre performances of the second half of last season. That's the inescapable fact and issue here. It was obvious to anyone who went to the Partick game that we would not be capable of beating Sligo. 

The alarm bells have been ringing for 8-months, so I hope Alexander gets his jotters before it's too late.