St Mirren v Motherwell 31/07/22

[gaz7]

15 hours ago, mio said:

Hate making snap judgements on players but the boy speirs doesn’t look very good 

Totally disagree with that. In his 20 mins or so yes he had 3 passes that never found their targets however they were all attempts if they had completed would have resulted in 1 on 1 on goalkeeper chances for a team mate.  Shows me he 1 is in position to do this and 2 isn't afraid to try as well as having vision to try.  Also his attempt at end where he tried to chip keeper. 

Hammel also must know him well ike him and trust him to put him on at that stage when we were holding on for a win.

Here's hoping he gets plenty more minutes as I am firmly on-board with hope for the future for him.

 

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

judging on that game, they will finish above us...usually a happy clapper but we need some fresh blood, cant rely on kelly bailing us out every week

Re midfielders, i dont think Maguire or Cornelius have got it to be creative, good players can slow it down and pick a pass.anyway we bagged 3 vital points

Well as probably the biggest happy clapper I’m my usual full of confidence self. We’re clearly not at the fitness levels needed and Alexander needs to take responsibility for that but it will change. I have to say I did enjoy the comments from our stand in manager who genuinely cares about the club and has that relationship with the supporters. I’m never one for sacking manager after manager and in fairness to Alexander he does deserve a lot of credit at the end, he could have just waited to be sacked and pocketed a huge pay off, he did not do that and probably ended up taking a smaller settlement amount. I did not enjoy the football and in truth I felt he never made a connection with the supporters the way that Robinson did. He’s not someone I will look back on with any real fondness, I’m just not sure Motherwell and Alexander were a match made in heaven which is not his fault.

Its now a new start, regardless of what some people say about the squad I believe we have some good players and with the right management I don’t see any reason why we can’t have a decent season. We need to strengthen for sure but we are a million miles from being doomed. Make the right appointment and there is no reason we can’t finish top half again. 

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, gaz7 said:

Totally disagree with that. In his 20 mins or so yes he had 3 passes that never found their targets however they were all attempts if they had completed would have resulted in 1 on 1 on goalkeeper chances for a team mate.  Shows me he 1 is in position to do this and 2 isn't afraid to try as well as having vision to try.  Also his attempt at end where he tried to chip keeper. 

Hammel also must know him well ike him and trust him to put him on at that stage when we were holding on for a win.

Here's hoping he gets plenty more minutes as I am firmly on-board with hope for the future for him.

 

Agree totally, it was the lads debut so is obviously going to be making mistakes and would have been so nervous. I think it's great seeing a youngster get a chance. I have spoken so much over the years about this. Good luck Kian

[El Grew]

12 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Do us a favour and let us know the coaching qualifications you’ve attained to come to that conclusion? Have you never thought that the midfielders are just playing to instruction?

Oh bully for you.  Decry everybody and anybody who has the temerity to offer serious constructive criticism about the team.

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, El Grew said:

Oh bully for you.  Decry everybody and anybody who has the temerity to offer serious constructive criticism about the team.

Behave yourself. What was constructive in your criticism? Take my coaching quip away, how can you quantify your point of view ‘We don't currently have any midfielders at the club who have any creative ability’? To say we don’t is crass at best. Possibly confusing creativity with flair?

Suppose for those who understand, there are those who won’t accept explanation - for repeat, when the midfield is briefed to retain a shape rather than retain the ball which has been the set up you get the showings we have stifling creativity. Let’s see if a fresh philosophy bears fruit, in my opinion it will.

 

[Great Balls of Shire]

17 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

It’s just a shame that someone who has supported the club for so long only has negative things to say about it.

its what makes him a personality in his own mind

[Coatsy]

Can't grasp this we have a good squad, we have a very limited squad from what i see, with some players on long term contracts that should never even been renewed.  That's 3 games so far and not even a sniff of a goal in open play. We have an asset in Kelly who was outstanding yesterday but caught out on Thursday so yes a premier league quality player. Jury has to be out on our new signings until they bed in. 

Morris and VV played together before, Morris appears to be struggling with the physicality of the Scottish game ATM,  McGinn, looks short of pace as seen on Thursday,  Spittal so far has been anonymous in  games .  But will give all three time as i said before .

Perhaps with a weeks training we will see something different from Hammel but as the saying goes you can only pee with the cock you've got

[Great Balls of Shire]

4 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Judging on that game? I’m not sure I share that. We’ve still to get up to speed for the reasons I mentioned. New blood is a given, hoping we don’t rest on our laurels and a swift appointment gives room for manoeuvre in assessing & making changes to squad.

For some reason, Alexander seen both as number 6’s, neither are. Cornelius doesn’t have to be creative. His strength? Energy with the ability to go beyond our forward line yet, neither used to advantage.

prepared to give cornelius the benefit of the doubt, hes ok , but we need more than ok in the middle of the park see what a new manager/system can do for him...dont think we can salvage maguire, however.

[Onthefringes]

13 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

prepared to give cornelius the benefit of the doubt, hes ok , but we need more than ok in the middle of the park see what a new manager/system can do for him...dont think we can salvage maguire, however.

Could well be right

[wellfan]

On the often  debated subject of individual players and team performance, I think we will be feeling the ill effects of what Alexander has sewn into this squad until at least after the January transfer window. 

[El Grew]

6 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Behave yourself. What was constructive in your criticism? Take my coaching quip away, how can you quantify your point of view ‘We don't currently have any midfielders at the club who have any creative ability’? To say we don’t is crass at best. Possibly confusing creativity with flair?

Suppose for those who understand, there are those who won’t accept explanation - for repeat, when the midfield is briefed to retain a shape rather than retain the ball which has been the set up you get the showings we have stifling creativity. Let’s see if a fresh philosophy bears fruit, in my opinion it will.

 

Our midfield retains shape??  You must be joking unless you mean a zigzag shape.

I don’t know what your idea of a creative midfield player is but mine is one that plays an attacking support role with the capability to play defence opening passes and create chances for teammates. They should also have a decent range of passing, a good first touch and an awareness of what’s happening around them.

As far as I am aware, but I’m willing to be proved wrong, there are no such players in our current squad.

[Onthefringes]

4 minutes ago, El Grew said:

Our midfield retains shape??  You must be joking unless you mean a zigzag shape.

I don’t know what your idea of a creative midfield player is but mine is one that plays an attacking support role with the capability to play defence opening passes and create chances for teammates. They should also have a decent range of passing, a good first touch and an awareness of what’s happening around them.

As far as I am aware, but I’m willing to be proved wrong, there are no such players in our current squad.

Why would I be joking? It’s about seeing how it happens and not just watching hence, my those who won’t accept explanation comment.

For 18 months we’ve not been given opportunity to see what our midfield can do. Hopefully a fresh outlook may do just that.

Out of interest, who would you go for in the bracket you describe? 

[gee]

Hammell’s comments about Slattery made me think he’d plan to play him in the central role. I think this is where he’s best suited. With energy of maybe Spittal and Cornelius beside him, would like to see that midfield. 
 

 

[weeyin]

25 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

For 18 months we’ve not been given opportunity to see what our midfield can do. Hopefully a fresh outlook may do just that.

Agree with this. I think that if we ever start passing the ball through midfield we have a few players that would thrive on that.

[wellsince75]

I've got some sympathy for our midfield.  Playing 3 has led to 1) being up against a much better midfield 3 against top 6 teams and 2) being outnumbered against bottom 6 clubs. 

If playing with 3 generally they all need to be good both defensively & offensively.  I don't believe any of our players are all round midfield players and I doubt our budget can afford it. 

This is an over simplification but all players are limited. 
Maguire. Best attritibutes are as a defensive mid. Lacks pace but can be used to break up play and find a simple pass.
Spittal.  Too early to tell, looks an ok worker who can break up play and work hard.
Slattery.  Closest to our best all round player but tires quickly in games.  Decent ball skills and be good player to collect ball from defence and join up to attack. 
Goss.  Best on the ball player we have but don't expect him to protect left back, win balls or put in a hard shift. 
Cornelius. Great work effort and looks better moving forward. 
Morris. Early days but similar attributes to Goss albeit of a lower quality. 
Tierney. Most likely to score and should play in the hole between midfield and attack. 

Point being there's no combination I can see that suggests a 3 man midfield would work.  Personal view is we need at least 4 of them in different roles to make the midfield work and if being brutal would only have  Maguire & Morris as back up players. 

[davkel]

With regards to the midfield ... the one thing that is badly missing is someone or 2 who can break forward from midfield and getting beyond the front guys .....or even making late runs into the box to support the forwards....just doesn’t happen

[steelman1991]

Why would I be joking? It’s about seeing how it happens and not just watching hence, my those who won’t accept explanation comment.
For 18 months we’ve not been given opportunity to see what our midfield can do. Hopefully a fresh outlook may do just that.
Out of interest, who would you go for in the bracket you describe? 

Scott Allan???


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[Mad Dog]

2 hours ago, El Grew said:

Our midfield retains shape??  You must be joking unless you mean a zigzag shape.

I don’t know what your idea of a creative midfield player is but mine is one that plays an attacking support role with the capability to play defence opening passes and create chances for teammates. They should also have a decent range of passing, a good first touch and an awareness of what’s happening around them.

As far as I am aware, but I’m willing to be proved wrong, there are no such players in our current squad.

The creative midfielder(s) may well be in our squad but we haven't seen much evidence of it yet.

 

If the team is set up with the idea of Kelly going long to the front three every single time with the midfield seemingly following orders to hold their ground, then there won't be many opportunities to see what they can do with the ball at their feet.

 

As onthefringes says, with new ideas and a different formation with the ball on the deck, we will see what this squad is capable of. I'd play 3-5-2 - O'Donnell and Carroll have taken plenty abuse defensively so play them as attacking wing-backs with less emphasis on defence. McGinn, Lamie and a dominant centre half between them - could Sol, Bevis or Ojala do that job or do we need to recruit? Maguire to sit in midfield with Cornelius's energy and Slattery's ability on the ball. Who partners KvV? Tierney playing off him or Shields right up alongside him? We've got options and some good young lads on the bench. Johnston, Devine and Spiers need minutes this season.

[Onthefringes]

36 minutes ago, steelman1991 said:

Scott Allan???


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What for? Carrying the hamper? I’d be unsure he can cut it at top level.

[GazzyB]

1 hour ago, davkel said:

With regards to the midfield ... the one thing that is badly missing is someone or 2 who can break forward from midfield and getting beyond the front guys .....or even making late runs into the box to support the forwards....just doesn’t happen

Cornelius could do that, I think he’ll go on to be an excellent attacking midfielder. 

[2/6 tae get in]

9 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

Could well be right

If he was switched back to his original position as a central defender he might have a chance but never as a midfielder.

[Onthefringes]

43 minutes ago, 2/6 tae get in said:

If he was switched back to his original position as a central defender he might have a chance but never as a midfielder.

You do know he was brought to the club having spent his formative years playing on the right side of midfield? Academy coaches then tried to convert him to be a defender whilst Robinson/Ross viewed him as a number 6.

[2/6 tae get in]

21 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

You do know he was brought to the club having spent his formative years playing on the right side of midfield? Academy coaches then tried to convert him to be a defender whilst Robinson/Ross viewed him as a number 6.

Of all the positions i have seen him play he is best as a central defender, he's never a midfielder. 

[Winning by Name]

11 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

I've got some sympathy for our midfield.  Playing 3 has led to 1) being up against a much better midfield 3 against top 6 teams and 2) being outnumbered against bottom 6 clubs. 

If playing with 3 generally they all need to be good both defensively & offensively.  I don't believe any of our players are all round midfield players and I doubt our budget can afford it. 

This is an over simplification but all players are limited. 
Maguire. Best attritibutes are as a defensive mid. Lacks pace but can be used to break up play and find a simple pass.
Spittal.  Too early to tell, looks an ok worker who can break up play and work hard.
Slattery.  Closest to our best all round player but tires quickly in games.  Decent ball skills and be good player to collect ball from defence and join up to attack. 
Goss.  Best on the ball player we have but don't expect him to protect left back, win balls or put in a hard shift. 
Cornelius. Great work effort and looks better moving forward. 
Morris. Early days but similar attributes to Goss albeit of a lower quality. 
Tierney. Most likely to score and should play in the hole between midfield and attack. 

Point being there's no combination I can see that suggests a 3 man midfield would work.  Personal view is we need at least 4 of them in different roles to make the midfield work and if being brutal would only have  Maguire & Morris as back up players. 

I think your post is very good however I think you are perhaps being a bit previous on Morris.

[Onthefringes]

7 hours ago, 2/6 tae get in said:

Of all the positions i have seen him play he is best as a central defender, he's never a midfielder. 

He looked to be maturing in that position until physicality exposed badly. He has though filled out a bit, I don’t see him reverting to the defence.

He’s not the first pick Alexander & more than a few on here had him as.