Motherwell v St Johnstone 06/08/22

[wellfan]

5 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Anyone know why Carroll wasnt in the squad?

No mention of an injury in training......

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/motherwell-defender-jake-carroll-ruled-27676264

[joewarkfanclub]

As far as the game itself was concerned, first half was very poor. Slow, pedestrian, no movement, poor first touches all over the pitch and gifted them a goal. Felt a lot like the Sligo games.

2nd half was a lot better. Credit to Hammy for making the changes quickly and but for some better finishing and decision making in the final 3rd we should really have got the equaliser long before we did.  To get the equaliser so late and then give it straight back with such poor defending is just criminal.

Other observations, Collum is still a really shite referee. Not the reason we lost the game, but the 2 penalty decisions are huge, particularly when you see what he is giving free kicks for all over the rest of the pitch.

Finally, 90% of our support, me included, had no idea what the bois were demonstrating about.  As stated previously you cant see the banners from the East Stand so it just looked like idiotic behaviour and a disruptuon to the game. I realise that to be effective protests generally need to be spontaneous, and unannounced, but maybe a wee bit more forethought is needed as to how to take the whole support with you. Even if our support do push the boundaries at times, no one can deny the stewarding at St Mirren can be over officious, so there would be general support for the point made. That was lost today.

[joewarkfanclub]

11 minutes ago, wellfan said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/motherwell-defender-jake-carroll-ruled-27676264

Cheers, totally missed that. Not good.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

If that’s improvement, trouble is just around the corner. Today should put an end to any notion of Hammell moving office. It’s folly.

Absolutely. If we've learnt a valuable lesson today its that he should stay put.

[El Grew]

3 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

So your an educated bilingual prick then, take a chill pill ffs.

Nobody asked for your pennyworth.

[El Grew]

I thought the 2nd half today was a big improvement on the 1st half.  Cornelius and Tierney allowed Goss to take-up a more central position in midfield which I think suits him better and this allowed him to be more positive and effective.

I think it’s obvious a number of the players we have won’t do and so a huge task for the new manager will be trying to shift them on.

The biggest problem for the new manager however will be a lack of time between being appointed and the transfer window closing on 1st September.

[SteelmaninOZ]

Here’s our acting gaffer 

 

[Welldaft Mk1]

I am not saying Hammell should definitely get the job.  But those writing him off after today are well wide of the mark. Embarrassingly so. 

Is he a fuckin miracle worker ? Serious Q. Because clearly many on here think the pile of shite Alexander left us with should turn into prime Barcelona after a week and a half. 

I noticed a big improvement on Sligo. Not hard to be fair but we tried to play football. Second half we were the better team and should have had one penalty for sure for the rugby tackle on Sol. 

Hammell cannot be blamed for the comedy defending on 94 minutes. He made substitutes at HT. Taking of an ineffectual Maguire and Morris was the right call. Alexander would never have done that. Also made the correct subs later in the game. Tierney was underwhelming sadly. 

Taking the anger out of the late capitulation I think Hammell has done a good job so far. 

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

As far as the game itself was concerned, first half was very poor. Slow, pedestrian, no movement, poor first touches all over the pitch and gifted them a goal. Felt a lot like the Sligo games.

2nd half was a lot better. Credit to Hammy for making the changes quickly and but for some better finishing and decision making in the final 3rd we should really have got the equaliser long before we did.  To get the equaliser so late and then give it straight back with such poor defending is just criminal.

Other observations, Collum is still a really shite referee. Not the reason we lost the game, but the 2 penalty decisions are huge, particularly when you see what he is giving free kicks for all over the rest of the pitch.

Finally, 90% of our support, me included, had no idea what the bois were demonstrating about.  As stated previously you cant see the banners from the East Stand so it just looked like idiotic behaviour and a disruptuon to the game. I realise that to be effective protests generally need to be spontaneous, and unannounced, but maybe a wee bit more forethought is needed as to how to take the whole support with you. Even if our support do push the boundaries at times, no one can deny the stewarding at St Mirren can be over officious, so there would be general support for the point made. That was lost today.

Agree totally, we had no idea what was going on, understand the reasons but at start of 2nd half when we need a reaction when losing?, sorry I don't agree but just my opinion. Anyway onto the game, plenty endeavour and loved fact Hammell changed dugout set up so we are at home side.  Bevis and sol give me fear and up front I am sorry and I know fans like him but KVV needs to remember it's a team game and not all about him. Goss and mcginn good and mahon lively, shields needs rested and Efford taking an eternity to shoot bewildering.  However some fans still need to get a grip, some of shouts and criticism OTT, at this stage we all need to unite and get right behind the team 

[Dossertillidie2]

50 minutes ago, Welldaft Mk1 said:

I am not saying Hammell should definitely get the job.  But those writing him off after today are well wide of the mark. Embarrassingly so. 

Is he a fuckin miracle worker ? Serious Q. Because clearly many on here think the pile of shite Alexander left us with should turn into prime Barcelona after a week and a half. 

I noticed a big improvement on Sligo. Not hard to be fair but we tried to play football. Second half we were the better team and should have had one penalty for sure for the rugby tackle on Sol. 

Hammell cannot be blamed for the comedy defending on 94 minutes. He made substitutes at HT. Taking of an ineffectual Maguire and Morris was the right call. Alexander would never have done that. Also made the correct subs later in the game. Tierney was underwhelming sadly. 

Taking the anger out of the late capitulation I think Hammell has done a good job so far. 

Couldn’t agree more

huge change in the way we play after only one week. Regardless of who gets the job he has a massive task in identifying the players we and hammell already know shouldn’t be anywhere near that squad and quickly somehow move them on to get players in on the cheap that are better

 

a huge task to overhaul what’s been left which is no overnight job

[Kmcalpin]

The first half was woeful and I had to remind myself that GA had left. A few players, especially Morris, who is not a striker, did not seem to understand their role. If we play a 4-3-3 formation then we have to play Efford, Van Veen and Shields up front because they're the only 3 strikers we have.   No point in shoehorning others in.  A toothless attack and poor defence are not Hammell's fault. However, his starting midfield appeared to me beforehand to be too lightweight and unbalanced.  No idea why he started with that line up.  The midfield and defence looked totally disorganised and gave St Johnstone far too much room and space. No leadership,  energy or fight at all in the first 45. Hammell realised his error and made changes at half time, but by that time we were 1-0 down with 45 minutes to go.  The second half looked to be a bit better, although we were still fragile in defence and toothless up front, and I was pleased to see Cornelius come on. Tierney should have been brought on earlier. 

I thought the officials were shocking and failed to stamp out St Johnstone's playacting and timewasting. I expected at least 8 minutes , and possibly 10 added on but we only got 6. I doubt if that will be reported (at least the Well Bois highlighted it). 

I didn't expect Stevie Hammell to completely reorganise the team and transform it given the scale of the mess that GA left but  he made several management errors that indicated to me he isn't the man for the job, for now anyway.  He is better employed in his Academy role and thats no slight on him.

The team needs several additions - a striker, winger, experienced midfielder, left back and 2 central defenders.  Its hard to judge the players just now - we do have some decent ones but they're not punching their weight due to being not played to their strengths. That needs sorted and quickly.

[ppower]

I have watched 4 games now.  Two against Sligo Rovers who got humped 5-1, this week by a non descript Norwegian outfit. Then St Mirren who should have won had they taken their chances and St Johnstone who won 2-1 and scored all three goals. So in 360 minutes of football against piss poor opposition we have scored one goal and that was a penalty.  How anybody can think that we are heading for anything else but a relegation battle is beyond me. Fucking Pep Guardiola couldn't do anything with the shite that is masquerading as professional football players at Fir Park. Honestly, only two players have contributed positively in the past 8 months Kelly and Van Veen. The rest are incompetent at best. If any candidates were in the stand watching that horse shit today they have probably phoned up Burrows and with drawn their interest. Burrows and the rest of the amateur hour comedians who have consistently picked duff managers are the ones to blame for this clusterfuck. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

For the ones who weren’t there 

 

[Onthefringes]

9 hours ago, Dossertillidie2 said:

Couldn’t agree more

huge change in the way we play after only one week. Regardless of who gets the job he has a massive task in identifying the players we and hammell already know shouldn’t be anywhere near that squad and quickly somehow move them on to get players in on the cheap that are better

 

a huge task to overhaul what’s been left which is no overnight job

Couldn’t disagree more.

Huge change in the way we play? Think some are confusing this with a rise in match sharpness.

I note the same posters who were accepting of a few additions to an existing squad are now favouring an overhaul which in reality isn’t happening regardless of who is appointed -  left yesterday with the feeling we chased better players out the club including O’Hara.

[Kmcalpin]

I see Lee Johnson is complaining about St Johnstone's timewasting last week.  Well, they took it to a new level yesterday. Officials really do need to clamp down on it.

[Great Balls of Shire]

11 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I see Lee Johnson is complaining about St Johnstone's timewasting last week.  Well, they took it to a new level yesterday. Officials really do need to clamp down on it.

ironically i thought last week v st m , we were definitely in relegation bother, they are going to struggle and were much better than us.

I dont think st are better than us , need to see goals lost back but, at least in 2nd half we showed some enterprise and hopefully with a few additions, we could be fine but the defence needs tightening 

[Spiderpig]

34 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I see Lee Johnson is complaining about St Johnstone's timewasting last week.  Well, they took it to a new level yesterday. Officials really do need to clamp down on it.

Take the timing away from the referee Dave, copy the example of American football, have some official sit in the stand and every time the game stops  they stop the clock,  that would soon stop all the time wasting and nonsense that goes on, 

[Stevie73]

Our basic defending and spacial awareness is horrendous, our movement off the ball is slow and so predictable, and the same as from Xmas last year there are no goals in our team, new manager has an enormous job to turn this round, think we need at least five new faces in before close of window, big task.

[texanwellfan]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I see Lee Johnson is complaining about St Johnstone's timewasting last week.  Well, they took it to a new level yesterday. Officials really do need to clamp down on it.

We need to stop whining about teams time wasting. We would do the same and have done the same. The only way to deal with it is to not put yourself in that position. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

i know wullie colum takes a lot of abuse and its all totally justified, easy to blame refs when you lose but he seems to be a consistent factor for us. I disagree with sportscene pundits, i thought tierney shouldve had a pen, he " bought" it , but players do that all over the park and get a foul, defender got wrong side

the sol one was a pen all day long, unfortunately these guys will misuse var and too

[yosemite sam]

2 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

i know wullie colum takes a lot of abuse and its all totally justified, easy to blame refs when you lose but he seems to be a consistent factor for us. I disagree with sportscene pundits, i thought tierney shouldve had a pen, he " bought" it , but players do that all over the park and get a foul, defender got wrong side

the sol one was a pen all day long, unfortunately these guys will misuse var and too

We all know if that had been either one of the ugly sisters, the Tierney one would have been a stonewall penalty.

[Ya Bezzer!]

I felt our 'improved' second half improvement was more down to St Johnstone sitting back and defending a lead than us actually being any good.  Davidson isn't exactly known for expansive tactics.

The most alarming thing about yesterday was, apart from the odd snap shot here and there, we didn't actually create a goal scoring chance until about 61 minutes and didn't even look like doing so.

You might even say we are looking like last season's St. Johnstone - totally unable to score unless it's gift wrapped in the form of a pen or OG.

Too early to judge new players but Morris and Spittal just haven't been at the races.  In the two matches I've seen Spittal has arguably the worst player on both occasions.

Probably should have had at least one penalty but we couldn't defend an injury time equaliser so we deserve everything we get.

Was watching Match of the Day earlier and the way top teams press off the ball is in total contrast to us.  That's not a technique issue, that's an attitude issue. 

Our level of football has far too many guys phoning it in.  That's evident from the shocking goals we give away just about every week.  Our players just aren't switched on and who ever the next manager is needs to put a rocket up the arse of this squad.   O'Donnell is supposed to be the captain and one of the most experienced and he's making rookie mistakes that cost us the game.  He needs to be the example but the only example he is is what not to do.

If you have no ability, the only guy that looked like he could put his foot on the ball was Goss, you need to work and concentrate on your game.

Looking like a long hard season ahead and the managerial appointment is crucial.  As much as I like Hammell we need an experienced manager with a contact book who can bring in 3 good standard first XI players ASAP.

So far it's four dismal performances out of four.

[fizoxy]

O'Donnell is no longer the captain, it's Kelly now. He's probably better at left back than Carroll, mainly because Im not worried that he's going to maim someone out of nowhere.

We do seem to have a habit of letting runners do what they want. Some of that may be tactical, but we fail too often on fundamentals. Our overall football intelligence is about as low as I've seen it.

On the attacking sense it's the same, we're way too static, it's like table football at times.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I felt our 'improved' second half improvement was more down to St Johnstone sitting back and defending a lead than us actually being any good.  Davidson isn't exactly known for expansive tactics.............Was watching Match of the Day earlier and the way top teams press off the ball is in total contrast to us.  That's not a technique issue, that's an attitude issue.

About your first point, I agree St Johnstone sitting back in the second half did make us look better than we actually were. 

Your second point - you don't need to watch Match of the Day to see that. St Johnstone did that to us yesterday.  They closed us down at every opportunity and choked our game.  Thats been a feature of their play for years now - we knew in advance they'd do that.  Yesterday that could have been down to a variety of factors, beyond my knowledge: working harder, better attitude, being better organised, our off the ball movement being poor - others will know better than me why.  It was also a weakness in Alexander's team.  By contrast we gave Saints far too much room and space, or at least it seemed that way. Maybe poor organisation or players being undisciplined? 

[wellsince75]

56 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Your second point - you don't need to watch Match of the Day to see that. St Johnstone did that to us yesterday.  They closed us down at every opportunity and choked our game.  Thats been a feature of their play for years now - we knew in advance they'd do that.  Yesterday that could have been down to a variety of factors, beyond my knowledge: working harder, better attitude, being better organised, our off the ball movement being poor - others will know better than me why.  It was also a weakness in Alexander's team.  By contrast we gave Saints far too much room and space, or at least it seemed that way. Maybe poor organisation or players being undisciplined? 

Personal view is we’ve signed far too many very ordinary players. At their best they work hard but they offer v little else . Ordinary players at best will be very ordinary teams . we managed results due to having some flair/guile with Watt and KVV. 

i don’t expect a turnbull to arrive every year but it wasn’t long ago with similar budgets we had people of the quality of ainsworth and others like him . Not world beaters but had some skill and craft . 
 

Even likes of Jim Obrien were  far better than the dross we’ve had in recent years from seedorf , amaluzor.  Now we have guys like Morris, spittal , shields , efford -  it’s simply not good enough . I’m not impressed with the recruitment team at FP.   The manager rightly took flack but what is everyone else accountable for .