Motherwell v Aberdeen 22/10/2022

[jonnymfc]

First home game I've been to this season because of work and I was sorely disappointed by the quality on the park. Spital is a fraud. One of the worst players I've seen. Looked burst in the second half. 

Van Veen is not mobile enough. Their first goal was speed and a tidy finish. Van Veen continually dithered on the ball and the one opportunity to make a pass, took the selfish option.  If we don't work as a team we will continue on this run. And to have a go at Peeney was the last straw. I'd have hooked him . He needs an attitude adjustment. 

I felt Kelly could have just clattered into the boy. Put pressure on him for the first goal. He came out, stopped and it gave the lad enough time to pick his chip shot. 

Peeney was shocking first half and improved inthe second. Second half he put a couple crosses in which seemed out only genuine plan. 

All in all the summer window will cost us. I can see us sitting in the bottom 2 by the January window and we seriously need bodies in to avoid the drop. Our form since January 2022 has been one of the worst in my lifetime. 

The standout: Mckinstry looked good and was often open on the second half. We decided to force things down the right for some reason and every cross hit the first man.  Switch it up Motherwell. So easy to play against. 

Manager doesn't know his best team and is tactically inept. I'd have matched Aberdeen's formation as they constantly had the wingbacks available through the game. 

A sore one in the end. Also what's the point of VAR when it's clear the cooper stand seen a foul and it's not looked at. 

Terrible end to the game. 

[Kmcalpin]

7 hours ago, El Grew said:

Our next 3 games: Dundee Utd (a), Hearts (a), Celtic (h).  We’ll get zilch from that lot.................

If, (and it’s a big if) there’s anybody left on the board with a semblance of common sense they should now be quietly looking around for an experienced manager to either:

(1) Come in on a short-term basis to help Stevie Hammell out; OR

(2) To take over and allow Stevie Hammell to go back to his job as academy director.

As things stand, I think we'll struggle to take much from our next 4 games.

Its too early to bin Stevie yet but you're right maybe an experienced manager would help to stabilise our listing ship in the short term. He may yet turn out to be a great manager.  I think JonnyMFC  is exaggerating a tad when he says SH is tactically inept, but worryingly he's certainly been outfoxed a good few times most recently yesterday. I didn't like Goodwin as a player and not as a person, but he certainly had Hammell's number well and truly sussed yesterday.   

[Winning by Name]

1 hour ago, jonnymfc said:

First home game I've been to this season because of work and I was sorely disappointed by the quality on the park. Spital is a fraud. One of the worst players I've seen. Looked burst in the second half. 

Van Veen is not mobile enough. Their first goal was speed and a tidy finish. Van Veen continually dithered on the ball and the one opportunity to make a pass, took the selfish option.  If we don't work as a team we will continue on this run. And to have a go at Peeney was the last straw. I'd have hooked him . He needs an attitude adjustment. 

I felt Kelly could have just clattered into the boy. Put pressure on him for the first goal. He came out, stopped and it gave the lad enough time to pick his chip shot. 

Peeney was shocking first half and improved inthe second. Second half he put a couple crosses in which seemed out only genuine plan. 

All in all the summer window will cost us. I can see us sitting in the bottom 2 by the January window and we seriously need bodies in to avoid the drop. Our form since January 2022 has been one of the worst in my lifetime. 

The standout: Mckinstry looked good and was often open on the second half. We decided to force things down the right for some reason and every cross hit the first man.  Switch it up Motherwell. So easy to play against. 

Manager doesn't know his best team and is tactically inept. I'd have matched Aberdeen's formation as they constantly had the wingbacks available through the game. 

A sore one in the end. Also what's the point of VAR when it's clear the cooper stand seen a foul and it's not looked at. 

Terrible end to the game. 

I agree with what you are saying, my comment would be that I dont think Van Veen is a sole target man and needs someone to play that role beside him, god only knows who if Moult isnt fit.

[pretzel]

Frustrating day at the office to say the least. I feel like VAR is going to be torture, the unnecessary long waits I can let slide if they get the decisions right but not to be contradictory it seems that the first goal wasn't even close to that and should have taken seconds to arrive at the correct decision. Absolutely inexcusable that they never looked at the potential penalty at the end, doubt we'll ever get a reason to why not. Maybe I'm being salty but it was a bit of a piss take letting there players run all the way back from the half way line to the corner flag to celebrate the first goal.

Obviously the Ross County game was terrific as everything clicked in front of goal but it's the same script every game, Van Veen had two chances a striker would dream of getting, Spittal should have slipped in Shields but unleashed a pass back effort and the same with VV with Penney hence the disagreement but then with the only shot on target they have in the second half they score. I feel like we were the architects of our own downfall, that Stewart in defence for the Dons was an absolute disaster piece.

Someone mentioned it but Goodwin pulled back McGinn when he was taking a throw in, what happened to his lengthy ban? He was vocal about an opposition player cheating weeks ago but he has his side feigning head knocks, pulled hamstrings and so forth. 

Dundee United, Hearts, Celtic and St Johnstone coming up before the World Cup break, three of which are away from home. I was optimistic everything would click eventually but with the injuries stacking up you can't help but it feel it's going to be a tough season.

[Ya Bezzer!]

15 hours ago, ppower said:

Total rubbish. St Mirren is full of FP cast offs and can compete and beat Celtic and won today. Livingstone go to Ibrox and get a point. They don't have any more money than us.  The simple fact is we have appointed a rookie manager who is not up to it. It ain't rocket science.  And just how do you know no one else wanted the job. Were you there at the interviews. I really love reading your self important know it all posts. Gives me a good laugh and we all need that at times 

Celtic rested a lot of their first team against St Mirren and put in their worst display of the season.  Obviously not taking that in as a factor but that's hardly surprising because you don't do nuanced consideration.  As for Livingston, they pretty much play the Alexander game, remember him, two results against Rangers last season, and that was deemed unacceptable by our support.

As for your second point, I can throw your daft argument straight back at you.  How do you know?  Were you there at the interviews?  My view is based on an internal appointment and barely even any press speculation on anyone else.  If you can back up that there was a good, experienced manager with a track record that was serious about wanting the job let me know.

The whole point of my post was if you don't want 'eye bleed' football how do we compete in this league?  Because it seems, unless we get some unexpected results, we'll be sitting near the bottom of the league when the break comes.

You served up no answer and preferred to yap, chihuahua-like at the poser of the question.  I wasn't surprised.

  

[Great Balls of Shire]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

As things stand, I think we'll struggle to take much from our next 4 games.

Its too early to bin Stevie yet but you're right maybe an experienced manager would help to stabilise our listing ship in the short term. He may yet turn out to be a great manager.  I think JonnyMFC  is exaggerating a tad when he says SH is tactically inept, but worryingly he's certainly been outfoxed a good few times most recently yesterday. I didn't like Goodwin as a player and not as a person, but he certainly had Hammell's number well and truly sussed yesterday.   

I am as disappointed as anyone , but some of these comments are ott...I thought that was one of the most average Aberdeen teams I have seen and reckon  we should finish in or around the same position 

Most important stat is goals but to say hammy was outfoxed by Goodwin is just not accurate ...their timewasting at the end was tedious but that's not really being  tactically astute 

Plus thought he was banned from dugout??

 

 

 

[Yorkyred]

I would agree he still needs time and if possible support from a more experienced head, we could realistically be going into the World Cup break with one win in eleven and that’s a pretty frightening prospect. Two of the four games however are very winnable so maybe he can grab a few points which would settle things.  

[Ya Bezzer!]

Just now, Great Balls of Shire said:

I am as disappointed as anyone , but some of these comments are ott...I thought that was one of the most average Aberdeen teams I have seen and reckon  we should finish in or around the same position 

Most important stat is goals but to say hammy was outfoxed by Goodwin is just not accurate ...their timewasting at the end was tedious but that's not really being  tactically astute 

Plus thought he was banned from dugout??

Aberdeen were terrible at the back but not bad going forward.

In the first 10 minutes they made 2 big blunders at the back and we didn't even attempt to take advantage of them, we just let them recover and get away with it and that kind of set a pattern.  Aberdeen are definitely there for the taking defensively but we didn't put them under enough pressure, especially first half.

However one thing Aberdeen did do that we just don't is load the box.  Pretty much every time Aberdeen attacked they got 4 or 5 players into the 18 yard box.  Our players just don't do that.

[Yodo]

15 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

Dropping experienced midfielders for academy players in a team already struggling is a new level of madness for me.

Forgot u were a fan of the shitebags who have proved over the last few games how poor they really are 

[Stuwell2]

When Hammell was touted for the job I said that if chosen we would have to give him at least 2 seasons to learn/ build a team and that there was the potential for relegation this year. Most folk on here were still willing to go with him, yet 12 games into his tenure I’m reading a lot of negative chat about him, talk that he’s not up to the job and even the need to change manager again - FFS can some folk stop and think before posting! 
Yes we all see things differently and chat is good but get some perspective please - 12 league games and getting knocked out a cup quarter final by Celtic isn’t long enough to judge anyone on. 
Am I happy with the results or the way we have lost most games? No but at times I see enough to encourage me to believe that thing could get better, results could improve and with some luck this team should be good enough to stay in the top flight this year. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

Just watched highlights there, we need an alternative to big sol, I would say he was culpable for both

Ive already mentioned the var incident at end, someone should be getting pelters for that

[grizzlyg]

Yep some of the talk about Hammell is crazy, we are on a bad run though our last 4 league games we have lost by 1 goal, yep still a defeat but not getting pumped. No way do I regret us binning Alexander, can you imagine the atmosphere if he was still here. Hammell needs time and January huge as he needs to bring in good players as some in that starting line up are in my opinion simply not good enough.  Sol may be good with a megaphone but is so limited on the pitch and only slighter faster than ojala which says it all. Spittal shows odd parts of skill but hee haw pace.  Van Veen needs a strike partner cos as lone striker it's pointless as work rate not there, never got in front of Aberdeen defender once,  we also have no one in that side that can cross a ball, every one doesn't pass first defender or goes way over everyone.  We are on a bad run but can't start turning against the team, we need to get behind them . COYW

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Yodo said:

Forgot u were a fan of the shitebags who have proved over the last few games how poor they really are 

Spittal not so much, Goss and Slattery have shown their qualities in the past, Goss more recently. I honestly can’t remember you rating a single player we’ve signed in the last 5 years though so it’s a tough one for yourself when no one meets your standards.   Academy replacement suggestions suggest you were on the drink last night. Hopefully you’ve sobered up mate.

[joewarkfanclub]

7 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Spittal not so much, Goss and Slattery have shown their qualities in the past, Goss more recently. I honestly can’t remember you rating a single player we’ve signed in the last 5 years though so it’s a tough one for yourself when no one meets your standards.   Academy replacement suggestions suggest you were on the drink last night. Hopefully you’ve sobered up mate.

When the academy players turn out not to be good enough he will just slaughter them and blame Hammell and Burrows.....

[dennyc]

10 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

When the academy players turn out not to be good enough he will just slaughter them and blame Hammell and Burrows.....

He'll probably blame Yorkyred as well. 

[Yodo]

So does SH go with somebody else signings knowing their not up to it or take a chance on his own judgement . At the moment he has nothing to lose with backing his own judgement 

[joewarkfanclub]

Firstly, we were poor yesterday. No arguments there.

But the reaction from the usual suspects is unsurprisingly OTT and gives no consideration to the circumstances of the last few weeks.

 We have gone into a really tough run of fixtures with a threadbare squad and little ability to change things up as most of the missing personnell are in the same areas of the pitch.

Our results have been poor, but yesterday was the first time I felt the performance fell well below the required standard compared to the level of the opposition.

My one criticism of Hammell yesterday was that once it was obvious Goodwin had set Aberdeen up to counter our set up, he didnt go and match him up. We had the players on the bench to do it and I think it would have protected our defence a little more and given us a better platform to play from.

That said, the changes he did make got us back in the game and a bad KVV miss and an inexplicable refusal to use VAR for the penalty decision are all that stood between us and a point.

I also thought Tierney had a decent shout for a penalty in the first half and surprised VAR didnt look at that either.

Its clear to see where our problems are and there is no hiding from them at the moment. But most of them are not of Stevie Hammells making, so we need to get behind him and the players as they are all we have at the moment.

We need to try and scrape a few more points before the break and then hope we can get some players back fit and also sign a couple in the next transfer window.

The time to judge Hammell is not now.

 

[Yodo]

24 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Spittal not so much, Goss and Slattery have shown their qualities in the past, Goss more recently. I honestly can’t remember you rating a single player we’ve signed in the last 5 years though so it’s a tough one for yourself when no one meets your standards.   Academy replacement suggestions suggest you were on the drink last night. Hopefully you’ve sobered up mate.

Goss and Slattery got shown up in the Sligo game over run by a LoI side and contributed nothing in the two legs . BTW I’m tea total but yer slowly driving me tae drink 

[joewarkfanclub]

8 minutes ago, dennyc said:

He'll probably blame Yorkyred as well. 

Maybe his judgement is that the players he is picking are the best he has available right now?

Our problem right now is that that the youth players who are considered ready are Maguire, Cornelius and Miller. Given how Goss, Slattery and Spittal had been performing, there wasnt a case to drop them going into games against Celtic and Rangers.

Ive no idea if young Ferrie is good enough or not, but it would have been unfair to throw him in before now. It will be interesting to see if he is given a chance in the next run of fixtures.

[wellsince75]

9 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Maybe his judgement is that the players he is picking are the best he has available right now?

Our problem right now is that that the youth players who are considered ready are Maguire, Cornelius and Miller. Given how Goss, Slattery and Spittal had been performing, there wasnt a case to drop them going into games against Celtic and Rangers.

Ive no idea if young Ferrie is good enough or not, but it would have been unfair to throw him in before now. It will be interesting to see if he is given a chance in the next run of fixtures.

personally both Goss and Slattery would be in my first eleven.   I'd much rather put in an extra midfielder , preferably Cornelius and only work with 2 up front.  

Overall though I don't believe the formation to be the issue.  It's been and still is a very tough run of fixtures and when you lose confidence it's hard to get back (just look at Liverpool/Rangers/Aston Villa etc) .

We need to find a way to get a result in next few games and sometimes you just need to change for changes sake to give us something different.  Hence a change in formation and win more in the midfield.  We don't have the best central defence so makes sense to give them a bit more protection. (or put McGinn at Centre Half and bring back S'OD)

[Coatsy]

12 hours ago, El Grew said:

Our next 3 games: Dundee Utd (a), Hearts (a), Celtic (h).  We’ll get zilch from that lot.

The relegation bells now well and truly ringing loudly at Fir Park.

Nobody to blame for this situation but the board. Clearly intended to start the season with Alexander as manager. Let him  make all the pre-season arrangements, downsize the squad and bring in new signings etc.  Panicked (under pressure from support?) after the two European ties with Sligo Rovers and sacked him.  Clearly had no plans in place for a replacement.  Then go through an “interview process” only to offer the job to the academy director, a rookie with little or no experience for the job.

If, (and it’s a big if) there’s anybody left on the board with a semblance of common sense they should now be quietly looking around for an experienced manager to either:

(1) Come in on a short-term basis to help Stevie Hammell out; OR

(2) To take over and allow Stevie Hammell to go back to his job as academy director.

And there’s no point in saying we can’t afford to do this because the cost of relegation means we can’t afford not to do it.

You're looking for the third coming of McGhee i sense LOL

[dennyc]

8 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Maybe his judgement is that the players he is picking are the best he has available right now?

Our problem right now is that that the youth players who are considered ready are Maguire, Cornelius and Miller. Given how Goss, Slattery and Spittal had been performing, there wasnt a case to drop them going into games against Celtic and Rangers.

Ive no idea if young Ferrie is good enough or not, but it would have been unfair to throw him in before now. It will be interesting to see if he is given a chance in the next run of fixtures.

100% agree Rangers and Celtic were no place to throw in Miller or Ferrie. Could have set them back massively. I think we possibly would have seen them in the other matches as subs had things been going well and we were not chasing games. When confidence higher and pressure less.  Hammell will introduce Academy kids but only when he believes it will benefit them and not set them back. There is a balance to be found, thinking long term. That said I do expect Cornelius to feature more before the break, but he is ahead of Miller and Ferrie development wise. Playing kids just because you don't rate Goss etc (as Yodo proposes} is crazy..............cue abuse!

As for yesterday, Cornelius and O'Donnell made a positive impact when they were introduced so that should speak volumes to Hammell.  And at the end of the day only officiating incompetence deprived us the chance of a point. Inept finishing might even have deprived us of a win. Subject to scoring a penalty that is. Depressingly similar to the home game v Hearts when we would have been level at 1-1 and on the front foot going for a win, but for the McGinn miss from a yard out, with Hearts then running up the park and killing us off.  I still also believe finding a formation that includes McGinn, O'Donnell and Penney would benefit the entire team, including the under fire midfielders.

[Yorkyred]

58 minutes ago, Yodo said:

So does SH go with somebody else signings knowing their not up to it or take a chance on his own judgement . At the moment he has nothing to lose with backing his own judgement 

He sort of already has gone with his own judgement by picking them.

[ppower]

3 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Celtic rested a lot of their first team against St Mirren and put in their worst display of the season.  Obviously not taking that in as a factor but that's hardly surprising because you don't do nuanced consideration.  As for Livingston, they pretty much play the Alexander game, remember him, two results against Rangers last season, and that was deemed unacceptable by our support.

As for your second point, I can throw your daft argument straight back at you.  How do you know?  Were you there at the interviews?  My view is based on an internal appointment and barely even any press speculation on anyone else.  If you can back up that there was a good, experienced manager with a track record that was serious about wanting the job let me know.

The whole point of my post was if you don't want 'eye bleed' football how do we compete in this league?  Because it seems, unless we get some unexpected results, we'll be sitting near the bottom of the league when the break comes.

You served up no answer and preferred to yap, chihuahua-like at the poser of the question.  I wasn't surprised.

  

Doesn't negate the point that you have no clue who was interviewed and you assumed Hammell was the only candidate. Also Celtic played 7 first team regulars against St Mirren.  

Remember it is only your assumption about the interview process and that doesn't make it true no matter how self important you think you and your masturbatory posts are. As long as you get pleasure from your tiresome contrary musings I am happy for you.  At least you make me laugh.  Not enough of that these days.

[ppower]

17 hours ago, GrahamH said:

How do you know he is a soft touch? Have you been in the dressing room?

Well if he isn't and he is ripping into them there is no reaction.  He was also never vocal as a player. So you are right I don't know, but just from his personality and interviews leads me to make that assumption.  Either way whatever he is saying or what he is coaching then on isn't working.  No doubt he will have a lot of practice saying disappointing in the weeks to come.