Motherwell v Aberdeen 22/10/2022

[Spiderpig]

31 minutes ago, ppower said:

Well if he isn't and he is ripping into them there is no reaction.  He was also never vocal as a player. So you are right I don't know, but just from his personality and interviews leads me to make that assumption.  Either way whatever he is saying or what he is coaching then on isn't working.  No doubt he will have a lot of practice saying disappointing in the weeks to come. 

Even if SH was ripping into them as you put it and the players dont respond what can he do, have people forgot we are in a bit on an Injury crisis at the club just now, a paper thin squad with no cover, none of which is SH's fault, he inherited the mess. So currently we need to run with what we have and the team we had out yesterday is probably the strongest 11 we could field, maybe Cornelius in for Tierney from the start is all that he could realistically change.

So we need to run with what we have until the injured players recover( maybe never in the case of Aarons and Moult) to give us more of a threat and pick up as many points as we can before January when we can hopefully strengthen the squad and get a couple of goalscorers in. So basically people need to cut SH some slack at the moment and wring their knickers out, no need for any pant wetting just yet.

[smiddy]

3 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

Spittal not so much, Goss and Slattery have shown their qualities in the past, Goss more recently. I honestly can’t remember you rating a single player we’ve signed in the last 5 years though so it’s a tough one for yourself when no one meets your standards.   Academy replacement suggestions suggest you were on the drink last night. Hopefully you’ve sobered up mate.

YODO   as our next midfield dynamo          or dildo        the forum can choose

[Yodo]

Don’t think the groundsman wid like me on the pitch wae my walking sticks u still using that Dildo 

[Kmcalpin]

7 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

 to say hammy was outfoxed by Goodwin is just not accurate ...their timewasting at the end was tedious but that's not really being  tactically astute

I wasn't referring to the timewasting at all i.e. feigning injury. That was cheating pure and simple, although the media will refer to it as game management. I don't think Stevie would resort to that.

More along the lines that Joewarkfanclub said "once it was obvious Goodwin had set Aberdeen up to counter our set up, he didnt go and match him up. We had the players on the bench to do it and I think it would have protected our defence a little more and given us a better platform to play from. " I'm no tactician, but there were a few "faults" that were obvious from the kick off that we didn't address at all.  Also, Tierney playing behind Van Veen just didn't work and hasn't worked before. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

40 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I wasn't referring to the timewasting at all i.e. feigning injury. That was cheating pure and simple, although the media will refer to it as game management. I don't think Stevie would resort to that.

More along the lines that Joewarkfanclub said "once it was obvious Goodwin had set Aberdeen up to counter our set up, he didnt go and match him up. We had the players on the bench to do it and I think it would have protected our defence a little more and given us a better platform to play from. " I'm no tactician, but there were a few "faults" that were obvious from the kick off that we didn't address at all.  Also, Tierney playing behind Van Veen just didn't work and hasn't worked before. 

I agree re Tierney, not saying he hasn't

 got something but I don't know if he's strong enough .

The stats I posted , we had more shots and more on target , so I think we probably played the better football, but they scored the goals , there's no denying that 

The two chances vv misses are not difficult, so the chances were there.

 

 

 

[grizzlyg]

If we had won yesterday it would have been full of praise and we will definitely be challenging top 6. We lose and it's a crisis. Watching highlights and KVV's 2 missed chances were ones that if they go in changes complexion of game. Fine margins plus goals we are conceding are criminal.  Mcginn been a steady 7/10 but I would happily have SOD back and would even consider mcginn at CB with lamie as Sol just gives me the fear. Beat Utd and it's a happy forum again. COYW

[Motherwellfc1991]

We simply don’t have enough quality players at our disposal within the squad but hammell must use what player options he has wisely . Spittal is a non entity and offers nothing defensively, creates nothing and runs( sorry jogs) like he is running in quick sand . Given penny is one of our best attacking options why not play sod at left back and push penny further up the pitch on the left. . Cornelius also has to play purely based on his energy and willingness to show for the ball and he actually gives a shit. 
 

On academy players being given a chance I don’t understand where they all are over the past few years. I get the 16 year olds aren’t ready but where are the 19/20/21 year olds that were coached under Hammells stewardship as academy director - all very strange - not one good enough out of 60 plus ? 

[grizzlyg]

3 minutes ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

We simply don’t have enough quality players at our disposal within the squad but hammell must use what player options he has wisely . Spittal is a non entity and offers nothing defensively, creates nothing and runs( sorry jogs) like he is running in quick sand . Given penny is one of our best attacking options why not play sod at left back and push penny further up the pitch on the left. . Cornelius also has to play purely based on his energy and willingness to show for the ball and he actually gives a shit. 
 

On academy players being given a chance I don’t understand where they all are over the past few years. I get the 16 year olds aren’t ready but where are the 19/20/21 year olds that were coached under Hammells stewardship as academy director - all very strange - not one good enough out of 60 plus ? 

Totally agree about Spittal pace (or lack of). Also what happened to young Spiers? Appears from nowhere against St Mirren away and never been seen since 

[Yorkyred]

15 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

If we had won yesterday it would have been full of praise and we will definitely be challenging top 6. We lose and it's a crisis. Watching highlights and KVV's 2 missed chances were ones that if they go in changes complexion of game. Fine margins plus goals we are conceding are criminal.  Mcginn been a steady 7/10 but I would happily have SOD back and would even consider mcginn at CB with lamie as Sol just gives me the fear. Beat Utd and it's a happy forum again. COYW

I think Hammell summed it up when he stated before yesterdays game that we need to be better in both halves. The stats don’t lie but they can paint a bit of a false picture. We had plenty of the ball but yet again failed to do many of the basics well, we continue to make basic defensive mistakes and can’t hit a barn door from five yards up front, that’s the story of the season, the lack of points over the last 7 games back it up.  We do need to start picking up points and again that will come if we become better organised, work harder and get those basics right, there is no reason why some of our players should be going backwards the way they are, that comes down to what happens in training, a couple of wins will also see the confidence increase which is also important. Hammell needs time but I’ve not seen a lot to convince me he was the right appointment in truth, but of course it is early days and he wants to actually play attractive football which in itself is a refreshing change.

[ropy]

6 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

 

Our problem right now is that that the youth players who are considered ready are Maguire, Cornelius and Miller. Given how Goss, Slattery and Spittal had been performing, there wasnt a case to drop them going into games against Celtic and Rangers.

Ive no idea if young Ferrie is good enough or not, but it would have been unfair to throw him in before now. It will be interesting to see if he is given a chance in the next run of fixtures.

We were 4 down against Celtic by 76 minutes, it may have been a statement that we thought the game was gone but why not give a young player a run out at that stage?  

[stv]

48 minutes ago, ropy said:

We were 4 down against Celtic by 76 minutes, it may have been a statement that we thought the game was gone but why not give a young player a run out at that stage?  

Because we would have lost even more goals . That Celtic team are miles in front of our first team never mid bringing on inexperienced players , what a stupid idea.

[Kmcalpin]

3 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

Mcginn been a steady 7/10 but I would happily have SOD back and would even consider mcginn at CB with lamie as Sol just gives me the fear. Beat Utd and it's a happy forum again. COYW

McGinn didn't looked great yesterday but as a mate pointed out he was often having to cover for others drifting out of position.  That made him look worse than he actually was. Aberdeen weren't great but our defence was a bit shambolic and leaderless.

[mfc]

25 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

McGinn didn't looked great yesterday but as a mate pointed out he was often having to cover for others drifting out of position.  That made him look worse than he actually was. Aberdeen weren't great but our defence was a bit shambolic and leaderless.

Good point,we are definitely leaderless at the back,both goals we conceded yesterday could maybe have been prevented with a bit of communication between our centre half's,why we were defending so high up at the first goal when we have no pace at the back is a mystery and the second goal for the aberdeen player to be in between the centre half's 6 yards out in a joke and that's not the first time we have lost a goal like that this season.there doesn't seem to be any reaction when we lose goals,they just stand around looking at each other which is frustrating.we have serious issues defending as a team that's needs addressed and quick,we have been well in all these games that we have lost by the odd goal but we can't keep giving the opposition an average of two a game,if we can remotely tighten up at the back we can easily turn these tight games into more points.

[Winning by Name]

8 hours ago, mfc said:

Good point,we are definitely leaderless at the back,both goals we conceded yesterday could maybe have been prevented with a bit of communication between our centre half's,why we were defending so high up at the first goal when we have no pace at the back is a mystery and the second goal for the aberdeen player to be in between the centre half's 6 yards out in a joke and that's not the first time we have lost a goal like that this season.there doesn't seem to be any reaction when we lose goals,they just stand around looking at each other which is frustrating.we have serious issues defending as a team that's needs addressed and quick,we have been well in all these games that we have lost by the odd goal but we can't keep giving the opposition an average of two a game,if we can remotely tighten up at the back we can easily turn these tight games into more points.

I dont think our centre backs are up to much but imo the second goal was down to McGinn allowing the Aberdeen left back get in behind him because of loss of concentration.

[Spit_It_Out]

One thing we need to do is not play such a high back line.That first goal and our defenders trying to get back was utterly laughable to watch I don't know because they are all slow or they just couldn't be arsed.

It was like carthorses going through mud and only what 4-5 mins in.

[mfc]

1 hour ago, Winning by Name said:

I dont think our centre backs are up to much but imo the second goal was down to McGinn allowing the Aberdeen left back get in behind him because of loss of concentration.

Definitely,mcginn could have done a lot better,he was beaten far to easily.the second goal just sums us up at the minute,we gave cheap possession away,then mcginn gets skinned and there's a free header 6 yards out with our centre half's nowhere to be seen,it was preventable on so many levels.

[Yorkyred]

1 hour ago, Spit_It_Out said:

One thing we need to do is not play such a high back line.That first goal and our defenders trying to get back was utterly laughable to watch I don't know because they are all slow or they just couldn't be arsed.

It was like carthorses going through mud and only what 4-5 mins in.

One of the problems we have is a lack of pace across the whole team, this is where we need a balance in how we play, dare I say this is where that naivety comes in at times. 

[Antrimmfc]

On 10/23/2022 at 5:04 AM, Yabba's Turd said:

It's Burrows' fault.

Only McKinstry's 3rd start. I reckon get better and better as season goes on. Although we need to pick up points soon. Lump out of defense set their second goal in motion. Wee bit of composure required when we are on top. 

[Spit_It_Out]

1 hour ago, mfc said:

Definitely,mcginn could have done a lot better,he was beaten far to easily.the second goal just sums us up at the minute,we gave cheap possession away,then mcginn gets skinned and there's a free header 6 yards out with our centre half's nowhere to be seen,it was preventable on so many levels.

To be fair alot of our goals this season have been utterly so basic it's embarrassing.When you look back on a whole lot of them it's amateur hour.Lack of tackles putting that foot the midfield for me is where we lack that bite that just puts pressure on the defence.

Said it before if we can get a experienced coach to come in with a defensive mind to help Hammel out think it do wonders.

[joewarkfanclub]

The crazy thing for me is that on the whole, we have defended well for large parts of most games since the start of the season. It makes it even more inexplicable how we manage to contrive to to cough up such easy chances that continue to cost us goals and points. Im no master tactician, so Im not sure if its just a lack of concentration or poor decision making under pressure, but its something that plagued us last season as well, and we werent set up as open as we are now. Last season I felt it was because we invited pressure upon ourselves, as we didnt take very good care of the ball. This season we have been much better at that side of things but the same mistakes persist. Not sure what the answer is other than winning the Euromillions and being able to sign better players.

[Kmcalpin]

36 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

To be fair alot of our goals this season have been utterly so basic it's embarrassing.When you look back on a whole lot of them it's amateur hour.Lack of tackles putting that foot the midfield for me is where we lack that bite that just puts pressure on the defence.

Said it before if we can get a experienced coach to come in with a defensive mind to help Hammel out think it do wonders.

Looking at the highlights our defending is very poor. Could Kelly have made it harder for the scorer at the first goal? He seems stuck in no man's land.  Even at Aberdeen's early disallowed goal, Lamie has no idea that Duk is unmarked and behind him. Their 2nd goal, you're right Spit_it_out, it starts off with Aberdeen players breaking and unmarked in midfield - no challenge or closing down at all. McGinn is left totally exposed with no cover in front of him - Spittal? He's been hung out to dry. The cross comes in and the scorer is unmarked between 2 defenders.  There are several other examples  in the highlighted clips. Must do better.

[Coatsy]

Interesting reading so many different opinions here,  from hammell not knowing his best team, wanting youth player played, poor defending, nothing up front, no pace up front or  at the back although some say Shields has pace, others looking for some players to be played out of their natural position, no quality, in crisis, no crisis just a few points off the top 6. Everyone is divided do we want eye bleeding football like Alexander served up or a passing game that Hammell it trying.

I think we are light as a squad, i would rather see a 5-0 Ross County game and losses to others if it progresses the passing style i want to see.

I would like to see some more youth players introduced as i feel they bring a freedom  and are not afraid to try and display their skill , but recognise that we still need experience.

Our spine is very week, our full back issues appear to be resolved, shields will never be a winger. Goss is a luxury player. With a bit of recruitment and sticking with the passing game we will be ok but we must find a player to build our team around

[SteelmaninOZ]

 

[joewarkfanclub]

5 hours ago, Coatsy said:

Interesting reading so many different opinions here,  from hammell not knowing his best team, wanting youth player played, poor defending, nothing up front, no pace up front or  at the back although some say Shields has pace, others looking for some players to be played out of their natural position, no quality, in crisis, no crisis just a few points off the top 6. Everyone is divided do we want eye bleeding football like Alexander served up or a passing game that Hammell it trying.

I think we are light as a squad, i would rather see a 5-0 Ross County game and losses to others if it progresses the passing style i want to see.

I would like to see some more youth players introduced as i feel they bring a freedom  and are not afraid to try and display their skill , but recognise that we still need experience.

Our spine is very week, our full back issues appear to be resolved, shields will never be a winger. Goss is a luxury player. With a bit of recruitment and sticking with the passing game we will be ok but we must find a player to build our team around

Definitely want us to stick with the passing game. 

We have been infinitely more enjoyable to watch this season than last, and our points total is not that disimilar, although the last week or so has impacted that.

I agree our squad is thin and we need to bolster it. We may need to take a chance on some of the youngsters between now and the next window just to see us through.

I also think more pragmatism against the big 2 might have to be considered.

I think we will be fine. But it has been a rough couple of weeks.

 

[Antrimmfc]

On 10/22/2022 at 5:44 PM, Robbos boy said:

Never thought I'd say this, but sorry Stevie, it's just not working. Time for a change, you can go back to your youth job as its not been filled. We asked for a striker you brought in a cripple. Van Veen we all know has no pace, but he can lay passes off if you had a proper striker to play off him. Solholms position play is poor and he can't header the ball away. McGinn has had enough chances, Slattery and Spittal have been poor for weeks and who ever sanctioned a new contract for Barry McGuire needs his head examined, sits on the bench every week and due to his absence becomes a better player to some. Controversial or not, get Neil Lennon in, he will boot a few rear ends and get a bit of fight into the team. 

Too many teams stopped playing for Lennon. Hibs debacle tells it all.  Simple answer. Get the ball down and play. Not enough short passes. Everything going long.