Yorkyred Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 Anyway getting away from VAR which I think is going to dominate discussions from now on a very important three points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texanwellfan Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 59 minutes ago, weeyin said: The ref gets to to see full speed, slowed down and freeze frame. He also knows the rules better than most fans. A good example of that is when Spurs had their goal disallowed in midweek. Most players, pundits and fans thought you can't be offside if the ball is played backwards, when there's no such rule. ( It's just that 99 times of out 100, when you pass the ball backwards there isn't anyone else in an offside position interfering with play.) And then there are the rules that rarely, if ever, come into play. Did you know, for example, if a red card offence is committed and the offender can't be identified then the red card is given to the "senior team official in the technical area"? For red card offences, the law is pretty vague. The relevant wording is "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent" - the other part of that law is " or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play" which I think we can rule out in this case. So the ref has a lot of latitude here. I'd likely have been upset if our player saw red for that, but given incidents like Mugabi's red against Hibs in the cup, it's no surprise to me when they happen. Correct. The law doesn’t mention a backward pass but was he behind the ball at the time of the pass or did he run back from ahead of the ball to collect that pass ? basically if you are behind the ball you are onside see the section below regarding offside position any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretzel Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 I'm generally stumped how people don't think thats a red. The Pie and Bovril twitter page recently posted a video and it slows down the contact of Watts connection. His studs actually rake down the side of Goss's shin and the force makes him plant his foot, it could have been a nasty one. I said it yesterday, but as soon as Watt makes the challenge you see him turn to the ref waving his arms saying he didn't mean it and when he is eventually shown the red he puts his head down and walks off without saying a word to Beaton, the sign of a guilty man. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassin Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 I think people are forgetting that a) it was Tony Watt and b) very funny. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, Yassin said: I think people are forgetting that a) it was Tony Watt and b) very funny. 8 minutes ago, pretzel said: I'm generally stumped how people don't think thats a red. The Pie and Bovril twitter page recently posted a video and it slows down the contact of Watts connection. His studs actually rake down the side of Goss's shin and the force makes him plant his foot, it could have been a nasty one. I said it yesterday, but as soon as Watt makes the challenge you see him turn to the ref waving his arms saying he didn't mean it and when he is eventually shown the red he puts his head down and walks off without saying a word to Beaton, the sign of a guilty man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mccus28 Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 Late to the party here but just getting a chance. Was up at Tannadice yesterday and thought the game was terrible but a 3 points I will take all day long. The take aways from the game for me are:- Kelly's kicking is getting worse, he either found a Utd player or a fan!!!! Shields is really poor Morris is really poor Maguire is really really poor Slattery is defo a footballer with talent but he looked about a stone overweight?? Great 3 points though so well done boys!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 hours ago, pretzel said: I'm generally stumped how people don't think thats a red. The Pie and Bovril twitter page recently posted a video and it slows down the contact of Watts connection. His studs actually rake down the side of Goss's shin and the force makes him plant his foot, it could have been a nasty one. I said it yesterday, but as soon as Watt makes the challenge you see him turn to the ref waving his arms saying he didn't mean it and when he is eventually shown the red he puts his head down and walks off without saying a word to Beaton, the sign of a guilty man. My issue with the incident is how why the ref initially played on. Watt caught Goss, had a free kick and yellow card been awarded it would never have gone to VAR. Given how close the ref was how the heck did he miss it. in terms of red , had that been one of our players I think many would feel hard done by. It wasn't anywhere the type of challenge Mugabi put in when he was sent off v's His and many of the Well fans felt Mugabi was harshly treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middleeastdave Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Mccus28 said: Late to the party here but just getting a chance. Was up at Tannadice yesterday and thought the game was terrible but a 3 points I will take all day long. The take aways from the game for me are:- Kelly's kicking is getting worse, he either found a Utd player or a fan!!!! Shields is really poor Morris is really poor Maguire is really really poor Slattery is defo a footballer with talent but he looked about a stone overweight?? Great 3 points though so well done boys!!!!!!! Can I add KVV to that list I personally think he is still a good player but he has played a lot of minutes of football and have to say recently looking a bit off form, if there was someone suitable to fill in for him I would have him rested, but unfortunately we don’t have that luxury, although King Louis might be close but hopefully the World Cup break coming will do him and the team a big boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 3 hours ago, ropy said: <br /> I've just watched this and completely changed my mind. Its a red all day long. If Watt tried to pull out of the challenge, why did he rake his studs down Goss' shin? As far as I can tell, he simply walked off with no backchat or complaint - unlike Tony Watt eh? He knew perfectly well what he did. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 15 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: I've just watched this and completely changed my mind. Its a red all day long. If Watt tried to pull out of the challenge, why did he rake his studs down Goss' shin? As far as I can tell, he simply walked off with no backchat or complaint - unlike Tony Watt eh? He knew perfectly well what he did. I'm totally with you there having seen it from that angle,it's a shocking challenge,there was no attempt at pulling out of it,you can see the way that goss sock moves that he's done him by raking the studs down him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 Liam Fox was moaning cos he saw tackle from different angle....well Liam.check this angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 Don't know what game everyone else was watching, Watt's challenge is a red all day, every day, no debate or discussion. Pundits don't know the rules, looks like half the forum don't know the rules either. Even Faddy, why did the ref let play continue? Because that's what how VAR is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz7 Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 27 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said: Don't know what game everyone else was watching, Watt's challenge is a red all day, every day, no debate or discussion. Pundits don't know the rules, looks like half the forum don't know the rules either. Even Faddy, why did the ref let play continue? Because that's what how VAR is used. That is exactly why there's as much debate yabba. Loads don't know the rules. I'm a big believer in if refs came out and explained any big decision in a game or even the head of referees came out after game and explained why certain decisions were given then it would clear a lot up. Pundits quite clearly don't know rules and it creates untold problems for referees in their next games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 23 minutes ago, Yabba's Turd said: Don't know what game everyone else was watching, Watt's challenge is a red all day, every day, no debate or discussion. Pundits don't know the rules, looks like half the forum don't know the rules either. Even Faddy, why did the ref let play continue? Because that's what how VAR is used. I think perhaps you should say "That's how VAR is abused". See it every week now. Referees abdicate decisions believing VAR will bale them out if they miss something. So they play safe and it isn't working. Same with Assistants and offside. Then again if Collum referees as he used to, VAR interventions will result in matches taking over two hours to complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyred Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 10 hours ago, gaz7 said: That is exactly why there's as much debate yabba. Loads don't know the rules. I'm a big believer in if refs came out and explained any big decision in a game or even the head of referees came out after game and explained why certain decisions were given then it would clear a lot up. Pundits quite clearly don't know rules and it creates untold problems for referees in their next games. I’m surprised the pundits don’t understand that play continues at times, it’s worked like that down south for ages, maybe they only watch Scottish football, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Completely agree that it should be a basic requirement that pundits should know the laws of the game. I also agree that it would be ideal if refs were allowed to explain their decisions. Even if we disagree with them, they are a lot easier to understand and accept if they tell you how they saw it from their vantage point and what law they applied in the circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 2 hours ago, weeyin said: Completely agree that it should be a basic requirement that pundits should know the laws of the game. I also agree that it would be ideal if refs were allowed to explain their decisions. Even if we disagree with them, they are a lot easier to understand and accept if they tell you how they saw it from their vantage point and what law they applied in the circumstance. Agree 100%. Saturday was a classic example. From one angle the Watt red card looks harsh. But when you view it from that other angle, it is a correct decision. I can only think that is the clip Beaton reviewed and so he changed his decision. And that is a pat on the back to VAR. Even if Beaton is not allowed to comment afterwards, surely it would be simple enough to issue the supporting clip the following day, if not before. Might answer a few, valid, questions. And minimise costly appeals. Dermott Gallagher on Sky Ref Watch said he had seen such a clip and so the decision to issue a red card was spot on. Sadly Sky did not have it to show. Perhaps DG is an avid Steelmen Online reader. If that clip was available to Sportscene I wonder what Stewart, Faddy, Miller etc would have said then? Maybe would have helped them to arrive at a different opinion, supportive of the referee and VAR. But, let's be honest. Everything is a secret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 I have listening to the Sportscene analysis a couple of times now and I actually don't know what point they are trying to make. Faddy is rambling. He seems to be aggrieved about the fact that the decision has gone from no free kick to red card. What he does not say is that the decision not to give a free kick in the first place is where the controversy stems from. How has John Beaton looked at that challenge in real time and decided it was fair? Ex players like McFadden and Stewart should be applauding VAR for situations like Saturday because it protects players from the incompetence of Scottish referees. Player safety should be high on their agenda. That could have been a leg breaking tackle on Saturday. I actually believe that Watt did try to pull out of the challenge at the last second but it was still high and still dangerous. There does not have to be intent for it to be red. Mugabi's red card last season was an example of just that. I wonder if the BBC pundits purposefully take an opposing view to play devils advocate. Certainly McFadden sounded like he was struggling to justify his own position on the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 They need people to phone in or discuss them online, so spouting I'll informed shite is a feature, not a bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 4 hours ago, dennyc said: Saturday was a classic example. From one angle the Watt red card looks harsh. But when you view it from that other angle, it is a correct decision. I can only think that is the clip Beaton reviewed and so he changed his decision. Presumably what they showed on Alba with the big "VAR" logo was the footage that Beaton reviewed. In which case, it appeared to be being operated by somebody who'd never used any kind of video player before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 I think the entire Utd video team had the day off. There were pictures on the live stream on Saturday that were so distant and wide-angle they looked like they were using the cameras in Dens Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 9:42 PM, steelboy said: I would guess he's fit enough to chase a goal of we are bombing balls into the box like Saturday looking for an equaliser. But not fit enough to protect a lead. Tierney is a man down. All he does is lose the ball. To be fair to Tierney they all give the ball away for fun and our tackling is very weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 7:00 PM, pretzel said: Delighted with the win. It's typical how we blew them away at Fir Park and somehow came away with just the solitary point but today certainly wasn't anywhere near our best and we take home the three points. For all the possession United enjoyed I think they really only tested Kelly once. Great result all things considered. My concern was they shouldnt have been able to have so much possession with ten men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: My concern was they shouldnt have been able to have so much possession with ten men. I think we just bottled it in the second half, scared we'd give up the three points. Although, tbf, Kelly wasn't tested much, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 That’s your Tony Watt red card downgraded to a yellow, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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