St Johnstone v Motherwell 12/11/2022

[fizoxy]

Grimshaw, fuck sake.

[grizzlyg]

Was out today so never saw any of game but it's a point so not a disaster. If Moult can get fit it will benefit us, KVV regularly starts and strolls about like a training session. Get them together in regular basis and see what happens 

[ML1]

1 hour ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I actually think the midfield is the biggest problem.

Should maybe ask Moult if he has any midfield convalescent pals that we could take on now and pay for a few months in the hope that we might get a tune out of them in time for the relegation play off

 

What's Craig Tanner up to ?

[Motherwellfc1991]

There’s no doubt Hammell doesn’t have much to work with however his insistence  on playing  433 and being outnumbered in midfield with players who can’t run, tackle or pass the ball is causing us all sorts of problems. 
 

I also still can’t work out how our old academy director who spoke so passionately about his academy doesn’t have any talent coming through apart from 2006 boys. Where are the players from the 17-21 year old age groups he was in charge of? What was he doing whilst in that post ? And why was that not challenged  by our jobs for the boys board during the interview process. 
 

We need a massive turnaround and a spot of luck in the transfer window but I fear we have no money for much. Hammell has talked a good game and had us playing well for 3 or 4 weeks but the football has been shit for a longer period and more worrying for me we are a team devoid of leaders, men and players willing to put their head above the parapet for our club .

Plenty suggesting moult is done , only time will tell but give me a moult attitude and desire any day of the week over the likes of mugabi , spittal , Morris , KVV, shields , Slatterly who couldn’t really give a shit if we win lose or draw  - that’s evident in their efforts on the pitch or lack of it. 

 

[GazzyB]

Chat of players not trying, not giving a shit etc is just bollocks. How can you tell that looking from the stands?

 

If a player plays badly it doesn’t automatically mean he doesn’t care. 

[Stevie73]

Thank god we are getting a break from this, at the game today, we were rotten, midfield is so slow and easy to play against, Moult was the only decent player today and you can see he still isn’t match fit, Shields came on and offered absolutely nothing, there is zero fight in this side, we need at least five in in January, guys that want to win football matches, every team we play are hungrier, quicker, sharper than us, difference today was St Johnstone’s finishing was as pish as ours.

[joewarkfanclub]

Some amount of utter shite posted on here tonight. You would be forgiven for thinking we had been pumped 3-0 and were bottom of the league.

Admittedly I only saw the second half, but we were level at the break and from what I saw we looked to me the team in the ascendency and more likely to get the winner. I dont recall Kelly having hellish much to do.

Those wetting their knickers about Moult being a waste of a wage, crocked, done? What are you watching?

He was still chasing balls down well into the second half, and if there had been any of our players on the same wavelength as him when he beat 2 Saints players and drove into the box to cross, we might have won the game.

Give me that level of desire and effort over KVVs petulance any day.

Ive no idea whether Moult will get fit, stay fit, score goals going forward, but those writing him off at this stage should hang their heads in shame.

We are not in a great place at the break, but neither are we up shit creek without a paddle. 

We now have 4 weeks to get our injured players fit, identify some fresh talent to bring in during the window and to rethink and reset for the second half of the season. 

We have a couple of very winnable fixtures after the break. If we can hit the ground running we will be right back in the mix.

[Welldaft Mk1]

15 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Some amount of utter shite posted on here tonight. You would be forgiven for thinking we had been pumped 3-0 and were bottom of the league.

Admittedly I only saw the second half, but we were level at the break and from what I saw we looked to me the team in the ascendency and more likely to get the winner. I dont recall Kelly having hellish much to do.

Those wetting their knickers about Moult being a waste of a wage, crocked, done? What are you watching?

He was still chasing balls down well into the second half, and if there had been any of our players on the same wavelength as him when he beat 2 Saints players and drove into the box to cross, we might have won the game.

Give me that level of desire and effort over KVVs petulance any day.

Ive no idea whether Moult will get fit, stay fit, score goals going forward, but those writing him off at this stage should hang their heads in shame.

We are not in a great place at the break, but neither are we up shit creek without a paddle. 

We now have 4 weeks to get our injured players fit, identify some fresh talent to bring in during the window and to rethink and reset for the second half of the season. 

We have a couple of very winnable fixtures after the break. If we can hit the ground running we will be right back in the 

Good post. Out of keeping with most of the negative views on here. But good to read some common sense and not just utter despair. 

It has not been a good run. But it has been a tough set of fixtures and we have not had much rub of the green. 

The players are injured / knackered / lacking confidence (because of results) or a combination of all 3. It was not that long ago we were playing very good football at home  and outplaying Hearts and United despite the end results

 Hopefully we can get back to that after the World Cup with some easier (on paper at least) fixtures and start climbing up the table. 

 

 

[Motherwellfc1991]

33 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

Chat of players not trying, not giving a shit etc is just bollocks. How can you tell that looking from the stands?

 

If a player plays badly it doesn’t automatically mean he doesn’t care. 

A few obvious pointers of that from watching from the stands 

- one of our midfielders generally hides behind his opponent meaning the ball can’t be passed to him meaning he can’t give it straight back to the opposition.

- a midfield 3 who haven’t put a tackle in for months

- Goss has shat out of numerous tackles in the past 4/5 games 

- KVV got criticised for months for silly yellow cards for lunging in, late barges etc . Great he’s cut that out but he needs to move off the spot he’s stood on at some point and put himself about 

- rangers first goal a few weeks ago - no player that plays with his heart in his sleeve allows a player to waltz past them like that - all 5 of them 

 

it’s great how no one wants to comment on Hammells shambles of a youth set up - can’t go upsetting the club legend . Great  player no doubt infact a legend of a player , failure in developing the academy and let’s be honest if it hadn’t played so many games for us his managerial stint would be getting questioned already. 

 

[Stevie73]

21 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Some amount of utter shite posted on here tonight. You would be forgiven for thinking we had been pumped 3-0 and were bottom of the league.

Admittedly I only saw the second half, but we were level at the break and from what I saw we looked to me the team in the ascendency and more likely to get the winner. I dont recall Kelly having hellish much to do.

Those wetting their knickers about Moult being a waste of a wage, crocked, done? What are you watching?

He was still chasing balls down well into the second half, and if there had been any of our players on the same wavelength as him when he beat 2 Saints players and drove into the box to cross, we might have won the game.

Give me that level of desire and effort over KVVs petulance any day.

Ive no idea whether Moult will get fit, stay fit, score goals going forward, but those writing him off at this stage should hang their heads in shame.

We are not in a great place at the break, but neither are we up shit creek without a paddle. 

We now have 4 weeks to get our injured players fit, identify some fresh talent to bring in during the window and to rethink and reset for the second half of the season. 

We have a couple of very winnable fixtures after the break. If we can hit the ground running we will be right back in the mix.

Obviously you weren’t at the game, Midfield were absolutely honking, dithering on the ball, passing to blue shirts all game, leaving the defence exposed, Moult was excellent doing the running and chasing down that the old Van Veen used to do, game was there for the taking today, but they just looked fitter and sharper than our boys. It was a hard watch.

[grizzlyg]

Give me Louis Moult any time as he has a passion for the club, hopefully after world cup will be a lot fitter. Shows a lot more passion than KVV who just has look of not caring ......again just my opinion which I am entitled to...COYW

[joewarkfanclub]

On 11/12/2022 at 11:07 PM, Stevie73 said:

Obviously you weren’t at the game, Midfield were absolutely honking, dithering on the ball, passing to blue shirts all game, leaving the defence exposed, Moult was excellent doing the running and chasing down that the old Van Veen used to do, game was there for the taking today, but they just looked fitter and sharper than our boys. It was a hard watch.

I stated from the outset I only saw the second half, so clearly wasnt at the game. I didnt think we were amazing in the second half, but we were far from honking and certainly no worse than St Johnstone. As I said, I thought we were actually looking the more likely to win the game. 

 McDairmid Park is a tough place to go at the best of times. Ive rarely seen a good game of football there.  Today looked like a mixture of a bad pitch and having to combat St Johnstones style of play, but we ground it out and gained a very deserved point.

Folk have been complaining for weeks that playing nice football is no good if we dont put points on the board, so today we have traded one off against the other. What do our fans actually want?

St Johnstone have just racked up 11 points out of 15. That doesnt happen by accident. They have turned their season around and are back to their old hard to beat selves.

I think some of our players deserve a bit more credit than they are getting.

[Welldaft Mk1]

7 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think some of our players deserve a bit more credit than they are getting.

Good luck with that on here. 

Most of the moaners on here - which accounts for over 50% rarely if ever take into account anything other than worse case scenario pretty much all the time. 

Look at Hibs and United. Budgets of 2 to 3 times ours. They have had as bad a season so far or worse. 

We have a new Manager finding his feet. We have a bottom 6 budget. We have had key injuries over the past month. We have been in all games and our GD is better than most of the league. 

But no we are pish. The Managers appointment was a mistake. He should be sacked blah blah blah. 

The truth is somewhere in between but this site is depressing at the best of times. And b4 anyone says if you don’t like it etc. I now spend most of my time on P&B. Much more sensible and balanced posts imho. 

[Onthefringes]

8 hours ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

A few obvious pointers of that from watching from the stands 

- one of our midfielders generally hides behind his opponent meaning the ball can’t be passed to him meaning he can’t give it straight back to the opposition.

- a midfield 3 who haven’t put a tackle in for months

- Goss has shat out of numerous tackles in the past 4/5 games 

- KVV got criticised for months for silly yellow cards for lunging in, late barges etc . Great he’s cut that out but he needs to move off the spot he’s stood on at some point and put himself about 

- rangers first goal a few weeks ago - no player that plays with his heart in his sleeve allows a player to waltz past them like that - all 5 of them 

 

it’s great how no one wants to comment on Hammells shambles of a youth set up - can’t go upsetting the club legend . Great  player no doubt infact a legend of a player , failure in developing the academy and let’s be honest if it hadn’t played so many games for us his managerial stint would be getting questioned already. 

 

A midfield 3? Kind of negates your point as we’ve set up 4-2-3-1 or a variation of since playing  Inverness.

Now, that may work in certain games - not to deviate and counter changes of others is Alexander like.

it also gives rise to those branding KvV as lazy et all. The 3 attacking behind him never go beyond him to compliment the work he does do.

Plenty questioning Hammel and the board decision to promote from within. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

12 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

They played the better football but created fuck all so I agree a draw was a fair result. We just booted the ball whatever way we were facing St Johnstone tried to pass the ball and use the wide spaces.

I get football is subjective but I just didn't see it that way, I thought they were good at buying free kicks....like having 11 Calum Slatterys in Ur team

[Great Balls of Shire]

10 hours ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

A few obvious pointers of that from watching from the stands 

- one of our midfielders generally hides behind his opponent meaning the ball can’t be passed to him meaning he can’t give it straight back to the opposition.

- a midfield 3 who haven’t put a tackle in for months

- Goss has shat out of numerous tackles in the past 4/5 games 

- KVV got criticised for months for silly yellow cards for lunging in, late barges etc . Great he’s cut that out but he needs to move off the spot he’s stood on at some point and put himself about 

- rangers first goal a few weeks ago - no player that plays with his heart in his sleeve allows a player to waltz past them like that - all 5 of them 

 

it’s great how no one wants to comment on Hammells shambles of a youth set up - can’t go upsetting the club legend . Great  player no doubt infact a legend of a player , failure in developing the academy and let’s be honest if it hadn’t played so many games for us his managerial stint would be getting questioned already. 

 

That's a couple of posters commenting on the lack of youths ... Presumably if they were good enough and ready,they would be in ...it's only going to dent a young guys confidence to put him into a struggling team

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

That's a couple of posters commenting on the lack of youths ... Presumably if they were good enough and ready,they would be in ...it's only going to dent a young guys confidence to put him into a struggling team

I think the ones on the bench are considered ready. But you generally blood young players when the game is won and their is no risk attached for them or the team. That just hasnt been the case for most of our games recently.

Hammell is under pressure from a lot of the very same fans calling for youths to be thrown in. Its no surprise that he has become reluctant to throw the boys in when his job increasingly depends on getting results.

[Spiderpig]

22 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I think the ones on the bench are considered ready. But you generally blood young players when the game is won and their is no risk attached for them or the team. That just hasnt been the case for most of our games recently.

Hammell is under pressure from a lot of the very same fans calling for youths to be thrown in. Its no surprise that he has become reluctant to throw the boys in when his job increasingly depends on getting results.

Spot on, we are all assuming that the academy squad is full of players ready to step up to the 1st team,  we will be lucky  if we get two who make the step up and Hammell will  know who they are.

As somebody once said you win nothing with kids, and unless we have another group of players as talented as the class of 92, the same will happen to us. The academy players who are good enough will get their chance at some point.

[wellwell91]

2 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

That's a couple of posters commenting on the lack of youths ... Presumably if they were good enough and ready,they would be in ...it's only going to dent a young guys confidence to put him into a struggling team

Think we have 5 or 6 of our youth out on loan to gain match experience …… Which is not to shabby IMO

The boy Johnson at Cove seems to be the best and would not be surprised to see him back in January 

Also the boy Miller is very highly thought of in the 1st team squad most weeks and he is only 17 !!!

A lot of the doomsayers on here need to get a grip and have a look at the big picture regarding the clubs youth policy !!!!!

[Kmcalpin]

3 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

A midfield 3? Kind of negates your point as we’ve set up 4-2-3-1 or a variation of since playing  Inverness.

Now, that may work in certain games - not to deviate and counter changes of others is Alexander like.

it also gives rise to those branding KvV as lazy et all. The 3 attacking behind him never go beyond him to compliment the work he does do.

Plenty questioning Hammel and the board decision to promote from within. 

Good post OTF.

I was at the  game yesterday and we deserved our draw, which I thought was beyond us before kick off. St Johnstone had the better of the first half and we had the upper hand in the second and finished the game quite strongly. Both teams had their strengths as expected and we tried to play the better football whilst Saints played their usual game - hard working, organised, solid and streetwise. They had the better leading up play, courtesy of our midfield and defence, whilst we created the better chances. Fortunately they were toothless up front.  We were totally exposed down the flanks, especially on our left side and more clinical opponents would have taken more advantage of the space  we offered them.  I'd hate to be playing in our central defence right now - no protection from the front or sides.  Defencewise we were unorganised and shambolic.  I thought substitutions to bring on fresh legs, especially in midfield were required midway through the 2nd 45 were needed but only Shields appeared.  

I'm not a fan of 4-2-3-1 or similar at all. Maybe thats unfair of me - perhaps its just the way we implement it or we don't have/play the players to suit it.

Up front I was pleasantly surprised to see Moult start and last 90 minutes and he worked damned hard. The problem was that he was too isolated. As a few others have said, KVV was played far too deep and he didn't link up with Louis.  Not KVV's fault. Moult is not a lone striker; thats not his game. 

I have to question our coaching. Week after week, the same problems manifest themselves i.e. we appear disorganised defensively, midfield doesn't function and the  lone striker is left isolated.   Thats not the fault of individual players.

Two main positives for me: an unexpected point, and Moult getting 90 minutes

Finally, the less said about Nick Walsh the better.

[Motherwellfc1991]

Cornelius should in my opinion start every week on the basis he has attributes that the other midfielders don’t have - he has energy , pace , can tackle and looks to play forward where possible - I think he is 21. The only other youngster to come through of late is macguire and he is the opposite of Cornelius. 

My point is that with Hammell in charge of the academy no other 20/19/18/17 year olds have really at any game time other than the lad who came on at st mirren at start of the season and then disappeared. Each of these squads is at least 20 strong so thats circa 40 players possibly more who hammell signed/coached as part of his academy role and none are ready. He has put Ferie , Miller and Ross on the bench a few times and not used much/at all. 

He sold us on youth and a team trying to play football for us to be proud of. In 4 months I’ve yet to see that other than a small spell of games around united/hearts at home. It’s a lack of progress and lack of ideas on change that’s alarming me. Some players are going backwards as well - Slatterly , Lambie for example. 

Yea it’s better than Alexander but honesty as of yet not by far. The league table and quality of what we are watching shows that. 
 

Massive January window ahead for him and his chums on the board. 

 

 

 

 

[Kmcalpin]

8 minutes ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

Cornelius should in my opinion start every week on the basis he has attributes that the other midfielders don’t have - he has energy , pace , can tackle and looks to play forward where possible - I think he is 21. The only other youngster to come through of late is macguire and he is the opposite of Cornelius. 

My point is that with Hammell in charge of the academy no other 20/19/18/17 year olds have really at any game time other than the lad who came on at st mirren at start of the season and then disappeared. Each of these squads is at least 20 strong so thats circa 40 players possibly more who hammell signed/coached as part of his academy role and none are ready. He has put Ferie , Miller and Ross on the bench a few times and not used much/at all. 

He sold us on youth and a team trying to play football for us to be proud of. In 4 months I’ve yet to see that other than a small spell of games around united/hearts at home. It’s a lack of progress and lack of ideas on change that’s alarming me. Some players are going backwards as well - Slatterly , Lambie for example. 

Yea it’s better than Alexander but honesty as of yet not by far. The league table and quality of what we are watching shows that.

Massive January window ahead for him and his chums on the board.

Good post. I'm not suggesting that we chuck in young lads willy nilly and in the deep end but 2/3 minutes here and there would not be amiss.

Also, I'm not suggesting that Dean Cornelius is the answer to all our problems, but you're right he gives us something different and would have given us fresh impetus and supported Moult and KVV better yesterday. 

[wellwell91]

7 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Good post. I'm not suggesting that we chuck in young lads willy nilly and in the deep end but 2/3 minutes here and there would not be amiss.

Also, I'm not suggesting that Dean Cornelius is the answer to all our problems, but you're right he gives us something different and would have given us fresh impetus and supported Moult and KVV better yesterday. 

There was nothing between the teams yesterday and like others thought we should have looked at fresh legs but it’s fine lines ……… we were not under the cosh and we’re dealing with what they were able to throw at us ( which was not a lot ) so do you stick or twist hold on to what you’ve got or change it and it goes tits up.

For what it’s worth St Johnstone put on 3 subs at 75minutes and I thought it weakened them …… swings on roundabouts.

[Mio Krivokapic]

1 hour ago, wellwell91 said:

There was nothing between the teams yesterday and like others thought we should have looked at fresh legs but it’s fine lines ……… we were not under the cosh and we’re dealing with what they were able to throw at us ( which was not a lot ) so do you stick or twist hold on to what you’ve got or change it and it goes tits up.

For what it’s worth St Johnstone put on 3 subs at 75minutes and I thought it weakened them …… swings on roundabouts.

Not the best idea ..... Sounds fucking lethal

[Great Balls of Shire]

4 hours ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

Cornelius should in my opinion start every week on the basis he has attributes that the other midfielders don’t have - he has energy , pace , can tackle and looks to play forward where possible - I think he is 21. The only other youngster to come through of late is macguire and he is the opposite of Cornelius. 

My point is that with Hammell in charge of the academy no other 20/19/18/17 year olds have really at any game time other than the lad who came on at st mirren at start of the season and then disappeared. Each of these squads is at least 20 strong so thats circa 40 players possibly more who hammell signed/coached as part of his academy role and none are ready. He has put Ferie , Miller and Ross on the bench a few times and not used much/at all. 

He sold us on youth and a team trying to play football for us to be proud of. In 4 months I’ve yet to see that other than a small spell of games around united/hearts at home. It’s a lack of progress and lack of ideas on change that’s alarming me. Some players are going backwards as well - Slatterly , Lambie for example. 

Yea it’s better than Alexander but honesty as of yet not by far. The league table and quality of what we are watching shows that. 
 

Massive January window ahead for him and his chums on the board. 

 

 

 

 

Cornelius is becoming better by not playing, not saying he doesn't have attributes and maybe should get a run just so we can judge 

I like Goss and Slattery but they do lack dig , spittal is chipping in with goals, but we do something else in midfield 

You are saying he has pace, I haven't seen that, . .like I said give the boy a chance, he does have energy but that's a bit of a prerequisite for a pro footballer.