Motherwell v St Mirren 17/12/2022

[MJC]

32 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Nope, Dundee as well.

I see that.

But I still don’t know of any other club who has had such a variety of call offs for such a variety of reasons. We’ve had ice, water, fire, exploding generators, power cuts, broken structures, lightning strikes over the years.
 

I appreciate that some of them can’t be helped but it’s some catalogue of issues with the ground. All we need is subsidence and an earth quake to complete the set.

[MJC]

Getting back to the ‘onfield’ matters, SH’s comments about Moult’s situation should be sounding alarm bells loud and clear to anyone who hasn’t yet heard them regarding his fitness. He’s back at Burton having another ‘niggle’ assessed and going by Hammell’s words and tone he doesn’t sound optimistic about his chances of getting him back fit any time soon.

Terminate his loan now.

[wellsince75]

14 minutes ago, MJC said:

Getting back to the ‘onfield’ matters, SH’s comments about Moult’s situation should be sounding alarm bells loud and clear to anyone who hasn’t yet heard them regarding his fitness. He’s back at Burton having another ‘niggle’ assessed and going by Hammell’s words and tone he doesn’t sound optimistic about his chances of getting him back fit any time soon.

Terminate his loan now.

Nothing to gain by terminating it now. 

He's back at his home club due to having the surgery and needing to be assessed.  He won't return unless given the all clear. which may or may not happen. 

If he can't return , the loan will end. If he can and fit then we get him back.  I don't know the financials but doubt we're breaking the bank and don't believe it's prevented us from signing other top talent. 

Unless he get's the all clear sounds likely to come to a natural end. 

[MJC]

So we continue to pin our hopes on his somehow regaining match fitness again after five years when we’re facing a potential relegation battle? Surely it would be better to just accept that this gamble hasn’t paid off and instead look to bring in a forward or two who actually has ability(which Moult has but the majority of our forwards don’t) and the required fitness(which Moult doesn’t have) to improve our striking options in the second half of the season?

[GazzyB]

We aren’t pinning our hopes on him, I very much doubt he’s breaking the bank. Keep his loan going, he’s shown he can be an asset if he can get fully fit, and sign a striker in the mean time.

 

Doesn’t have to be one or the other.

 

As for facing a relegation battle, gimme a fuckin break. Every year you say this, every year (bar the playoffs) we don’t even really come close.

[Yodo]

3 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Maybe we need to sign a plumber 

Used to be a A Plumber and A Joiner played wae Clyde Rangers 

[steelboy]

I think this game being off suits us.

Hopefully we have some bodies in for the rearranged fixture.

[MJC]

41 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

We aren’t pinning our hopes on him, I very much doubt he’s breaking the bank. Keep his loan going, he’s shown he can be an asset if he can get fully fit, and sign a striker in the mean time.

 

Doesn’t have to be one or the other.

 

As for facing a relegation battle, gimme a fuckin break. Every year you say this, every year (bar the playoffs) we don’t even really come close.

We signed him hoping he would be the answer to our goalscoring issue. Given his injury record we knew it was a gamble but given his previous record with us and that we knew he had ability it was worth taking the gamble at the time. 

Unfortunately it hasn’t worked out because he hasn’t been able to gain any sort of fitness and as such has been able to start just one match, score one goal(a penalty) and is yet again back down the road being assessed for an injury issue.

He is done, I’m sorry to say that because he is one of my favourite all time Motherwell players but he is. I wouldn’t want to see Tommy Coyne, Dougie Arnott or Wullie Pettigrew on our books right now as registered full time players either, regardless of how good they were for us previously.

We are facing a potential* relegation battle. *Potential being that it is not guaranteed but given our form, poor squad and rookie manager then it is a possibility, not a certainty as you are implying that I was saying.

 

[Mccus28]

On the plus side I will have a weekend with no fear of Motherwell gettin pumped 

[santheman]

1 hour ago, wellsince75 said:

Nothing to gain by terminating it now. 

He's back at his home club due to having the surgery and needing to be assessed.  He won't return unless given the all clear. which may or may not happen. 

If he can't return , the loan will end. If he can and fit then we get him back.  I don't know the financials but doubt we're breaking the bank and don't believe it's prevented us from signing other top talent. 

Unless he get's the all clear sounds likely to come to a natural end. 

If the rumours are true, he's on a play and pay basis  so costing us nought.

[wellsince75]

34 minutes ago, MJC said:

We signed him hoping he would be the answer to our goalscoring issue. Given his injury record we knew it was a gamble but given his previous record with us and that we knew he had ability it was worth taking the gamble at the time. 

Unfortunately it hasn’t worked out because he hasn’t been able to gain any sort of fitness and as such has been able to start just one match, score one goal(a penalty) and is yet again back down the road being assessed for an injury issue.

He is done, I’m sorry to say that because he is one of my favourite all time Motherwell players but he is. I wouldn’t want to see Tommy Coyne, Dougie Arnott or Wullie Pettigrew on our books right now as registered full time players either, regardless of how good they were for us previously.

We are facing a potential* relegation battle. *Potential being that it is not guaranteed but given our form, poor squad and rookie manager then it is a possibility, not a certainty as you are implying that I was saying.

 

I don't disagree that he's likely to be done, equally I don't believe we're pinning our hopes on him. Having him on the books costs us some investment in coaching etc but he's not holding anyone else back.

We signed Moult because he was the best we could get at that point in the window. Any player who could bang in goals and was fit was singed well ahead of Hammell being appointed.  We took a chance because we had nothing to lose. 

In the transfer window in Jan (when players are in contract) I have little hope of unearthing a striker who can bang in goals , why would any club let them go. The hope is to bring in some youngsters on loan.

What I'd rather happen is we play a formation that doesn't need 3 front players rotating. We have a couple who are out and out strikers and some other decent midfield options. I think we need to change the system. Have a decent holding midfielder to protect the defence and bring in better defenders.  It's far more likely to bring in decent quality from back to front that manage to unearth a striker

[MJC]

Just now, santheman said:

If the rumours are true, he's on a play and pay basis  so costing us nought.

But still taking up a place on our treatment table and taking our focus off bringing in another striker.

[MJC]

3 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

We signed Moult because he was the best we could get at that point in the window.

Was he though? You might be right about that and he genuinely was but is it not also possible that the fact that he played for us before and was/still is a cult hero amongst the support was a big factor in his re-joining? 
 

I’ve said this before but had we signed Leigh Griffiths - who I believe was also available at the time we did the loan deal with Moult - and he had contributed what Moult has so far then he would have been given far less leeway with the support.

[wellsince75]

33 minutes ago, MJC said:

I’ve said this before but had we signed Leigh Griffiths - who I believe was also available at the time we did the loan deal with Moult - and he had contributed what Moult has so far then he would have been given far less leeway with the support.

without question.   Griffiths would have been chased out at pace .  Not too many would have welcomed him. 

Moult's previous relationship was a reason we got him.  Im sure he had other options as well but nostalgia works for both the club and the player.

Similarly I have lots of patience for Hammell.  I'm willing to give him 2+ seasons as long as we avoid relegation because of his history with the club + Im tired of us chasing the unicorn and expecting every manager to work wonders.  I'll happily wait a few years to see small improvements , youngsters coming through etc.  

[Mintymac]

Regarding tomorrow’s postponement due to freezing /burst pipes . Am I missing something here?
Drain the system and or lag the pipes?

Sounds fairly , simple surely a bit of proactive work rather than reactive might have ensured the game went ahead .

Dont know the in and outs of it all but it wasn’t as if we didn’t now there was an artic blast coming down the line .

Not trying to be over critical on any individual just pragmatic, however surely the conversation had to have taken place when we found out the weather was changing for the worse. 
Stand to be corrected if I’m off piste 

[MJC]

Yes I see what you mean and I’ve got a lot of patience for Stevie Hammell and would love nothing more than to see him succeed as Motherwell Manager. 
 

But we have a poor squad and our forward options outwith Kevin van Veen are hopeless. Because they either have limited ability or have limited match fitness, with Moult fitting into the latter category.

I doubt there is a Motherwell fan out there who wouldn’t want to see Moult come good for us, but we can’t afford to keep looking backwards, as we do all too often as a club when it comes to ‘cult heroes’. We did it with McFadden when it was obvious that he was way past it and had little to nothing more to offer and he even managed to get into the position of player/Asst Manager.

We need to look forward as a club and rather than re-sign the McFaddens, the Moults we should be looking to try and sign players who can offer us the same as those players did when they were at their prime, rather than trying to get a tune out of them when they are well past their best.

[Spit_It_Out]

Worst front line we have had in years properly poor when we have to  expect KVV to get most of the goals but I put that down to not playing anyone remotely near him.The service has been shocking.

If we keep playing the formations we are playing then we will be in about the relegation battle for real.These players are not capable of playing a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 we need to get out hands on some battlers that can tackle not afraid of getting stuck in.Goss and Slattery in the middle don't track back lost so many goals due to this.

A Bowman esk frontman with KVV up front be better as KVV is not a runner him sitting about the box while fellow striker puts in the shift will work.

 

 

[MJC]

You can definitely see KvV is hugely frustrated most weeks at the lack of support and service he gets and this absolutely must be addressed in January as a priority. There are other areas of the team that need improved but if we can start scoring more goals that may well be enough to keep us from the drop this season. Stevie Hammell needs to be as fully supported as he possibly can be in getting the funds to get recruits in during the window.

[wellfan]

7 minutes ago, MJC said:

You can definitely see KvV is hugely frustrated most weeks at the lack of support and service he gets and this absolutely must be addressed in January as a priority. There are other areas of the team that need improved but if we can start scoring more goals that may well be enough to keep us from the drop this season. Stevie Hammell needs to be as fully supported as he possibly can be in getting the funds to get recruits in during the window.

The only way we will be able to sign better players in January is by farming a lot of the dross out on loan or offloading them, and I note that Hammy suggested loaning players out in his recent interview. I don't imagine the cost of fixing the recent weather damage will help our transfer window war chest. We need Penney to re-sign, a new CB, new CM, and new attackers. 

[MJC]

8 minutes ago, wellfan said:

The only way we will be able to sign better players in January is by farming a lot of the dross out on loan or offloading them, and I note that Hammy suggested loaning players out in his recent interview. I don't imagine the cost of fixing the recent weather damage will help our transfer window war chest. We need Penney to re-sign, a new CB, new CM, and new attackers. 

I agree we basically need a whole new team as this current lot would struggle to be mid table in the Championship if we were in that league right now. However that’s unrealistic to expect that in January so we need to address our weakest area, which is up front. It’s very fine margins in this league and whether we are involved in the relegation battle or actually relegated or not will likely come down to us picking up wins at the right times. For that to happen we need better attacking options.

[mfc]

The forward area definitely needs attention,van veen is our best option but we never quite know what we're going to get from him from week to week,mckinstry has shown some flashes but needs to start finding some consistency,shields for me isnt good enough and efford who I don't rate much either is injured anyway.i don't think we will see moult back so another striker and a right winger would be ideal in january.

[MJC]

Livingston v Dundee Utd now off as well. At least Utd can’t now gain any ground on us today but we really could be do with Hearts and St.Johnstone beating Killie & Ross County to keep both of them below us.

[ppower]

Game off. Really. Sums up the amateurish setup. Don't we have a stadium manager to keep on top of maintenance issues.??

To be honest they should be fined for this. They have had more made up excuses for games being postponed than any club I know. 

[MJC]

16 minutes ago, ppower said:

Game off. Really. Sums up the amateurish setup. Don't we have a stadium manager to keep on top of maintenance issues.??

To be honest they should be fined for this. They have had more made up excuses for games being postponed than any club I know. 

No doubt you’ll get replies to this along the lines of “what ye on about, Dundee’s game is off too, so is Livis, have you seen the weather this week?” But you certainly have a point about the number of times this has happened to us at Fir Park. I love the old ground but by God it certainly can’t handle any sort of adverse or inclement weather conditions.

Having seen Burrows tweets of the damage it looks absolutely horrendous. The Cooper toilets and the Gym are badly flooded. I’d be very surprised if Friday nights game v Killie goes ahead.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Flow has posted some videos of the damage on Twitter

https://twitter.com/Alan_Burrows/status/1604046425830330368?t=YiJoNBVPZbgRIIqi0-uYhQ&s=19