Motherwell v Kilmarnock 23/12/2022

[MJC]

9 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

I know it's difficult for you at times but stop talking shite, how the feck can SH be blamed for us having a mad 2 mins and giving Kilkie 2 goals.

What magic game management strategy would have prevented the OG from McGinn, or Kelly not saving a well hit ball that was in the air for ages. For me if the OG does not happen killie were never scoring the 2nd, as they were shite all game.

So stop blaming SH for something totally out of his control.

Waiting until Killie got it back to 2-2 to make a change would have been bad enough. Waiting until 85 minutes to make changes was absolute lunacy.

2-0 can be a dangerous scoreline (it always has been for us anyway) so you need to try and manage it properly and we/SH didn’t do this last night. We didn’t look in danger at 2-0 up but at at the same time we didn’t look comfortable either and the sending off for them seemed to throw us a bit. Once they got it back to 2-1, own goal or not, they were always getting a second because we had completely lost momentum by that point.

I’m not blaming Steven Hammell for an o.g and poor goalkeeping, but I am blaming him for his game management last night. Put it this way, if we had Derek McInnes in our dugout last night we would not have lost a two goal lead.

[steelboy]

Two nil up against ten men. Take Shields off, put one of the midfielders on. It's not difficult. 

 

 

 

 

 

[gaz7]

We as a team were summed up when after going 2 goals up the ref had a word with Kelly about wasting time.

We were well on top and killie i thought looked the worst team to come to fir park all season.

When they went to 10 men all we had to do was pass the ball around for a wee while between our defenders and goalkeeper as they only had 1 up front. 5 v 1 is quite easy to do but we actually just lost all confidence and played long balls and made pitch smaller.

We should have been coming home last night on minimum 3-0 victory all in good spirits as we were miles the better team up to sending off.

Players confidence is shot to bits and only 1 game back.

We badly need a couple of new gd players in January that can lift us.

The whole atmosphere at club just now with the arrests of some of young team and bad results and performances doesn't make for much positivity .

It can all change quickly of course but hard to see where from

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Can someone send Hammy a huge sign for Christmas that says ‘442 and get Shields to fuck’, please? 

4-4-2? Deary me. We’ve a soft centre with 2 deep lying midfielders yet, you reckon taking a midfielder/attacking option out will solve our ills? It’s dinosaur stuff.

Has to get the balance right in 4-2-3-1 or variation of that he favours. It’s a sum of all parts, it functions, our defensive line functions and assists our attacking options. The trick at ours is getting all three consistently.

[Onthefringes]

10 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Naw ma hope is we get rid of Conner fucking Shields and our continual fatuation with 4-3-3 

Canny control a baw

Canny pass a baw

Canny cross a baw 

Canny beat a man 

Canny hied a baw

Canny tackle

Keeps running down blind alleys 

can someone please please tell me why he starts week in week out ??????

Continual fatuation? We’ve not played 4-3-3 since Kilmarnock at Rugby Park. Perhaps, it’s time to watch and understand?

This is not an endorsement of Connor Shields either

[Onthefringes]

8 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

We as a team were summed up when after going 2 goals up the ref had a word with Kelly about wasting time.

We were well on top and killie i thought looked the worst team to come to fir park all season.

When they went to 10 men all we had to do was pass the ball around for a wee while between our defenders and goalkeeper as they only had 1 up front. 5 v 1 is quite easy to do but we actually just lost all confidence and played long balls and made pitch smaller.

We should have been coming home last night on minimum 3-0 victory all in good spirits as we were miles the better team up to sending off.

Players confidence is shot to bits and only 1 game back.

We badly need a couple of new gd players in January that can lift us.

The whole atmosphere at club just now with the arrests of some of young team and bad results and performances doesn't make for much positivity .

It can all change quickly of course but hard to see where from

I’m not convinced that’s likely

[wellup83]

2 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

As soon as Killie got a goal, momentum swung hugely in their favour.

Which is precisely why the manager should have brought on fresh legs and energy to try and nullify the changing tide. It's clear Hamell doesn't feel he has the strength from the bench.

Burrows and the board need to seriously invest in the playing squad otherwise we'll find ourselves fighting for our lives in the summer. We're always hearing about the fantastic work the club does in the community. The best thing the club can do for my mental health is get a winning team on the park.

[mfc]

12 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

4-4-2? Deary me. We’ve a soft centre with 2 deep lying midfielders yet, you reckon taking a midfielder/anttacking option out will solve our ills? It’s dinosaur stuff.

Has to get the balance right in 4-2-3-1 or variation of that he favours. It’s a sum of all parts, it functions, our defensive line functions and assists our attacking options. The trick at ours is getting all three consistently.

Spot on,we don't have the players to play 4-4-2,it's the last formation we could actually switch to with the personnel we have.we don't have the wide men for it and the thought of going with two central midfielders is crazy.i think at the very least to play 4-4-2 you need to have players that are mobile and put themselves about and that's something we definitely don't have.like you I think we need to stick to what we're doing or a variation of that and hopefully we can bring in a couple of players in January that will help us function more as a team.

[gaz7]

16 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

I’m not convinced that’s likely

Neither am I.

We can only hope for a huge slice of luck

[MJC]

39 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

I’m not convinced that’s likely

Neither am I sadly.

Though I’ve heard rumours that Lionel Ainsworth has been spotted having a lunch meeting in the Moorings with Hammell and Burrows so perhaps a glorious return is on the cards for our 35 year old former hero.

And then we’ve always got King Louis to return soon. Probably. Possibly. You never know. 

[steelman1991]

41 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

The whole atmosphere at club just now with the arrests of some of young team .......

Care to shed a little perspective on this.......................just curious and I'm not on social media

[wellwell91]

36 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Continual fatuation? We’ve not played 4-3-3 since Kilmarnock at Rugby Park. Perhaps, it’s time to watch and understand?

This is not an endorsement of Connor Shields either

Then tell me what position McKinstry and Shields were playing last night 

[MJC]

16 minutes ago, MJC said:

Double post, sorry.

[Stevie73]

Any other team in the league see’s that game out, but we have been defensively weak for over a year now, with a very slow midfield offering little or no protection to the defence. Look at Killie last night, they were brutal and offered very little but there two CB’s won every  challenge, guys were flinging their bodies in-front of everything, but we still didn’t learn, it was constant high balls or set pieces played straight to their giant of a keeper. We are too easy to play against.

[Spit_It_Out]

I am just sick of hearing the same stuff after every game but I am not seeing any improvement that I am hearing about.

We are short on bodies heard that every week for about 2 months  then why the fcuk was it allowed to sign two players with a proven long injuries in the hope they 'might' be fit!That is laughable in itself.

Max Johnston should have been recalled for the first team if we are so bloody short of bodies but that shall be another that slips away.

 

 

 

[Onthefringes]

58 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Then tell me what position McKinstry and Shields were playing last night 

If you need it explained perhaps it ain’t the game for you.

They are set up as wide attacking players (not wingers, that’s a golden age long passed some by) as part of a 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 depending on passage of play or ‘transitions’ as the split arses called it during World Cup coverage.

Playing with 2 traditional no. 6 types in Goss & Slattery doesn’t align with any 4-3-3 I’m afraid…

[Kmcalpin]

2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We had a mad couple of minutes and that was it.

We had Maguire, Morris, Tierney and Cornelius on the bench and a bunch of kids.  Don't tell me any of them would have safeguard the points.  

When he actually made substitutions he got booed for taking off McKinstrey who had a great 1st half but didn't do much second half.

Fans got what they wanted at the start of the season and it's probably mostly the same ones getting on Hammell's back now.  You don't become an experienced manager in 20 games.  

Short term-ism is not the way to go.  Wasn't at the start of the season, isn't now.

 

The players must take some responsibility for last night - thats only right. However our malaise went far deeper than that. Yes, personnel choices were limited but we did have some. Decision to time waste / sit off Kilmarnock / delay substitutions until late on. All of these weren't down to Callum Slattery, Sean Goss or Keven Van Veen; they were clearly at the door of Stevie Hammell.

There is a strong case for Dean Cornelius to have started in place of Blair Spittal or at the very least to have come on much earlier in the 2nd half. I'm not saying he would have been the answer to all our problems but that was a managerial option Hammy chose not to enact. 

When Hammy was appointed the support was split, but I couldn't give you the exact proportions. I for one was in the sceptical camp and I've now moved on to the severe doubts camp.  Many more are the same. I was never in the "we must play exciting football camp".  Yes, he is a rookie manager and they make mistakes I get that. But 5 months into the job he's making the same ones he made at the start. If anything the squad has regressed, even after the opportunity for several weeks training time during the World Cup. 

I'm with Yorky - if we don't pick up points in the next few weeks (I'm writing off the Sevco game btw) then he's going to give the Directors a decision to make. Last night was not a one off. We simply cannot afford to let him carry on regardless, in the hope he learns.         

[smiddy]

11 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

I don't know too much about Hammell's time in charge of the youth set up but it does take time to identify and bring through talent; years in fact. However when he took over he made a play of promoting youth and giving it a chance. He hasn't followed through on that  - maybe the pressures and realities of management have got to him. 

unfortunatly this is now not the time for youths

[Richie]

Yeah, I'm agreeing with @MJC and @steelboy here

Obviously the players have to take reposibility and should have the nous to use game intelligence, but there were glaring warning signs which Hammel should have acted upon.

Especially after we conceeded the first, we should have sorted things.

Eg, take Shields of, go 5 in midfield, slow it down, utilise the extra man and 'spoil' the game.

The concerning thing as alluded to is a similar thing happened v Hearts etc.

At 11 v 10 we look to be the ones with a man less.

I like Hammell and hope it works out form him, but cutting your Managerial teeth at this level is a tough gig with a relatively small margin for error.

The positive you take fom the game is that we had it won and ironically probably would have had Power not been sent off.

We were fully in control first half.

Recurring theme with spurned chances though.

We need to add stiking/wide options as a matter of urgency.

A Holding midfielder would help control tempo of games more also.

[smiddy]

2 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

I know it's difficult for you at times but stop talking shite, how the feck can SH be blamed for us having a mad 2 mins and giving Kilkie 2 goals.

What magic game management strategy would have prevented the OG from McGinn, or Kelly not saving a well hit ball that was in the air for ages. For me if the OG does not happen killie were never scoring the 2nd, as they were shite all game.

So stop blaming SH for something totally out of his control.

like playing the same shite midfield every week and not learning, cornelius may well become " a better player when not playing "   but by feck the boy gives us a bit if dig, that none of the rest do,    we can chap the buns game down to non event, but livi away !!!!!    by fuck he better change things up a bit and i dont mean throwing the irish boy inn  and hopeing something changes

[smiddy]

2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

4-4-2? Deary me. We’ve a soft centre with 2 deep lying midfielders yet, you reckon taking a midfielder/attacking option out will solve our ills? It’s dinosaur stuff.

Has to get the balance right in 4-2-3-1 or variation of that he favours. It’s a sum of all parts, it functions, our defensive line functions and assists our attacking options. The trick at ours is getting all three consistently.

we can play any formation we fancy   OTF   but the old saying of you canny polish a shite comes to mind   were to powder puff in midfield, unsettled defence, a moody cf   that plays if he can be bothered  oh n heedless chicken shields        we have all the hallmarks of a struggling team with a rookie manager

[wellfan]

Putting the formation chat aside, the bottom line is that the squad needs to be entirely turned over before we can start to properly set up to be effective in different games, and that won't happen in January. Hammy is a rookie manager and it is concerning that he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes, but he is still hamstrung by the utter shite he inherited. 10th place is the best we can hope for this season. 

[El Grew]

I’m afraid Stevie Hammell is a victim of what is called “The Peter Principle”. This is a concept in management developed by Lawrence J. Peter which observed that people in a an organisation tend to rise to a level of respective incompetence - they are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another.

The only way Stevie Hammell will lose the manager’s job will be if he resigns. That time may be close as the prospect of 0 points from our next 3 games is looming large.

[MJC]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Putting the formation chat aside, the bottom line is that the squad needs to be entirely turned over before we can start to properly set up to be effective in different games, and that won't happen in January. Hammy is a rookie manager and it is concerning that he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes, but he is still hamstrung by the utter shite he inherited. 10th place is the best we can hope for this season. 

10th was always going to be the best we would have got this season. Some of the chat of top six early on in the season from some on here was absolutely bonkers. 
 

We won’t get a whole new squad in January but to be honest we don’t need one to be safe this season, we just need one or two players in key areas and we should be able to do enough to avoid the drop. Whether we get those types of players or not is another matter altogether.

[grizzlyg]

19 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

I think so.  Suspect McGinn is a better CH than either Mugabi or Sol. 

Certainly more deadly in front of goal!! Shame it was wrong bloody net