well_said Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: If away who do we get then? Why do we need anybody . All clubs worked for years without the need for any of these leeches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: If away who do we get then? Someone with a decent track record and who is not connected to our management team whatsoever. We've suffered with Alexander bringing his own guy in, because now we're in the position we're in now. Ideally the club would have a way they want to play, most likely involving bringing through youth players and finding gems that can do a job for a few years before being moved on at profit, and bring in a head of recruitment who can work within those parameters. We don't ever want a manager bringing in an extended backroom team or head of recruitment, because it causes issues when they leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 We go back to a team of scouts with a chief scout as in previous years. I doubt we had a head of recruitment when we brought in the likes of Brian Martin , Rab McKinnon etc , scouts identified these and the managers at the time done the rest . Mind you we've had some bummers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, fizoxy said: His brother George just left a gig a couple of weeks back Scores on the doors...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, well_said said: We go back to a team of scouts with a chief scout as in previous years. I doubt we had a head of recruitment when we brought in the likes of Brian Martin , Rab McKinnon etc , scouts identified these and the managers at the time done the rest . Mind you we've had some bummers as well. Ahhhhh whoever scouted Buff and Rob must be found. 2 of my favourite ever well players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, well_said said: We go back to a team of scouts with a chief scout as in previous years. I doubt we had a head of recruitment when we brought in the likes of Brian Martin , Rab McKinnon etc , scouts identified these and the managers at the time done the rest . Mind you we've had some bummers as well. You're talking about a system that clubs utilised over thirty years ago. The game has changed, the way clubs recruit has changed. I don't know if a team of scouts is the way ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Everythings on databases now is it not? Hope Mr Daws left the passwords to his club laptop for Alan Burrows to access it otherwise we could be up Shit Creek! 😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Just now, joewarkfanclub said: Everythings on databases now is it not? Hope Mr Daws left the passwords to his club laptop for Alan Burrows to access it otherwise we could be up Shit Creek! 😄 If password is McGhee1? Then time to panic lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellup83 Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: Ahhhhh whoever scouted Buff and Rob must be found. 2 of my favourite ever well players Bobby Jenks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 It's the various gaffers that decide who we sign. The buck starts and stops there for each and every transfer. Blaming a scout for a signing is like blaming a waiter for your dinner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 8 hours ago, weeyin said: It's the various gaffers that decide who we sign. The buck starts and stops there for each and every transfer. Blaming a scout for a signing is like blaming a waiter for your dinner. The Head of Recruitment in the modern game is far more than just a scout. Not saying the manager doesn't have final say, but it's more complex than the old fashioned relationship between a manager and scout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 What does a Head of Recruitment do? Here's an example: https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9432133/what-does-a-head-of-recruitment-do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, David said: The Head of Recruitment in the modern game is far more than just a scout. Not saying the manager doesn't have final say, but it's more complex than the old fashioned relationship between a manager and scout. A key aspect of Derby County's relevant role. "To effectively lead the First Team and Academy recruitment departments to identify and recommend players who fit with the philosophy, identity and style of play and build and deliver productive relationships with other clubs and key stakeholders within the industry." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 42 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: A key aspect of Derby County's relevant role. "To effectively lead the First Team and Academy recruitment departments to identify and recommend players who fit with the philosophy, identity and style of play and build and deliver productive relationships with other clubs and key stakeholders within the industry." Exactly. The Head of Recruitment is tasked with more than jumping in his car and watching games or players that the manager has earmarked. This part here is key... "who fit with the philosophy, identity and style of play and build and deliver productive relationships with other clubs and key stakeholders within the industry." This is why we need a Head of Recruitment who is brought in independently of whoever the manager is at the time. Daws was brought in at the behest of Alexander, and is someone who's worked with him before. We can't appoint a backroom team at the request of the manager. It has the potential to cause so many issues when he eventually departs. In an ideal world we'd have a philosophy, identity and style of play determined by those who run the club. We'd have a head of Recruitment, identified and hired by the board, not the manager, who's in sync with that ethos and spends his time building a database of players who fit the criteria. Then we'd have a manager/coach who has been chosen because he agrees with and fits well with the philosophy decided upon by the people who run the club. I have to admit, as much as I think Alexander did a good job for us, I was initially surprised when he was brought in, knowing his style of play and the reputation he had at his previous club for how he set his teams out, and I was even more surprised when the club started taking on a long-term approach to signing players etc that fit within that model and philosophy. What I'd like to see happen now is for Daws to be released from his position (nothing against the guy, but I don't think he's a good fit) and replaced with someone who can identify the kind of players we need and often-times signed when Martin Foyle was here. We do need some long-term structure, and I did like the way the club seemed to be going down that road, but I just didn't like how much influence the manager had, and I didn't think his style of play was a long-term philosophy that the fans would get behind. Ideally, we should be able to hire a manager and when they move on we can bring someone else in who has the same ideas around philosophy and style of play who can plug into the current setup easily. Any manager hired should have a say on who his assistant is, but beyond that we need to curb their power, because it causes havoc when they inevitably move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 Daws was brought in to support Alexander's philosophy, so he should now be moved on as well. As others have stated, we need a new Head of Recruitment who supports the Club's philosophy, which every manager should align with, including Hammell. It should not be the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 Have we figured out what Alexander's philosophy was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 Alternatively Flow could just buy the Sun and see who Killie St Mirren and St Johnstone are linked with and join the queue for their signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyred Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 33 minutes ago, fizoxy said: Have we figured out what Alexander's philosophy was? I never saw any evidence there was one other than score a goal then get everyone behind the ball for the remaining 88 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, fizoxy said: Have we figured out what Alexander's philosophy was? Hubris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiddy Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 18 hours ago, David said: You're talking about a system that clubs utilised over thirty years ago. The game has changed, the way clubs recruit has changed. I don't know if a team of scouts is the way ahead. well heres one for you,,,,,, gordon young big motherwell fan ( employed or not ) knows SH well from bygone years, not to employ him, but ask him the question, have you came across any good players you could reccomend to us, a know for a fact he tried to persaude a young left back from cove who was at the end of his contract to keep us in mind , now surely in his travels all over the world hees noticed somebody for his wee home town team ?? just a thought so dont shoot me down unless youv a better idea, i know its clutching at straws, but !!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 7 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: A key aspect of Derby County's relevant role. "To effectively lead the First Team and Academy recruitment departments to identify and recommend players who fit with the philosophy, identity and style of play and build and deliver productive relationships with other clubs and key stakeholders within the industry." I like this. As I also like Stevie Hammells style of play. How about we make that the club ethos and get a Head of Recruitment who can identify players for the first team and academy that fit that philosophy? As a bonus, if they were young and could be developed to earn us a transfer fee, all the better. Its kind of what we did under Robinson and lost under Alexander. In hindsight, he was completely the wrong manager for our club and what our philosophy should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: In hindsight, he was completely the wrong manager for our club and what our philosophy should be. Agreed. Appointing a manager like Alexander has been more disaster than success. He is not greater than the Club, yet he was allowed to take it off on a tangent with his own philosophy and staff. Look how that worked out and the subsequent repercussions. It'll take the Club years to recover from this mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan91 Posted April 6, 2023 Report Share Posted April 6, 2023 Interesting hearing SK say Daws met with him today, he must be based down south and meet the manager every so often….SK gave the impression he’s very much part of his plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted April 7, 2023 Report Share Posted April 7, 2023 15 hours ago, Wellfan91 said: Interesting hearing SK say Daws met with him today, he must be based down south and meet the manager every so often….SK gave the impression he’s very much part of his plans. When SK outlined the roles he took care of at Ross County - it was incredible he had any team to coach the first team. He seems comfortable pulling the strings rather than having his string pulled. Re Dawes I'm supportive of having a head of recruitment/talent. What I didn't like is it came across that he doesn't base himself at the club and therefore is more of a scout. If' he's not based at the club regularly ,watching both existing squad players its a challenge to. understand how he'd know what he's seeing elsewhere is better than what we have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted April 7, 2023 Report Share Posted April 7, 2023 15 hours ago, Wellfan91 said: Interesting hearing SK say Daws met with him today, he must be based down south and meet the manager every so often….SK gave the impression he’s very much part of his plans. For me Daws is nothing more than a scout hawking players to any club who will take them. If Motherwell feel they need a head of recruitment etc then that person should be based at the club full time, know the players, set up etc and identify players that they think will fit our system and improve on what we have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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