Dossertillidie2 Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 On 2/2/2024 at 12:04 AM, Spiderpig said: As I've said in another thread the whole current structure and governance at the club is not fit for purpose, no full time CEO, potential financial issues, recruitment is a shambles etc etc. Root and branch changes are required to get the club on a sustainable operating model going forward, if not the future is looking bleak. agree with this 100%. Best signing we can make is a Chief exec and a head of football operations. one to oversee the business side of the club and one to oversee the football including contracts/recruitment/academy we need to build our platform from the academy and need a natural link between academy and first team managers we currently have a number of bodies in lower positions where they are not contributing and we remain rudderless at the top end of the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 23 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said: The one thing Hammell had in abundance was a great judge of character. wanted Dawes/sol/ojala/morris/shields/maguire moved on to make space for new signings the day he came in. Eventually got the majority of those out but dawes held on to damage us again this summer. The guy fancies himself as a coach but landed a nice cushty number working from his home down south thanks to his pal alexander and we are stuck with him. when a guy not long retired can scout furlong, butcher, casey, penney before his own recruitment manager that says it all! Which players did Dawes recommend in the summer and which ones were Kettlewell's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 Hammell raved about his own involvement in getting Danzaki, and he brought in Aarons and Moult, who were known injury risks (he flat out admitted moult wasn't going to be fit enough to play full games). He also had the utter gobshite Brian "lazy leg" Kerr as assistant, so I'm not going to give him too much credit. Kettlewell has definitely shown he can clear out when needed, but he's also responsible for Obika and Shaw. Dawes raved about going into international markets, but im not sure what that has really brought us. Sol, Ojala, and Efford were flops, and as much as i like Davor, there's plenty of scottish players that can do his job, and wont have to take half a season to figure out the league. I dont know the true extent of Dawes' role, maybe it's mainly administrative, but I'm sure his position will be under review whenever a new CEO rocks up. I can't imagine it being expensive to cut him loose should we decide to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 15 hours ago, Dossertillidie2 said: The one thing Hammell had in abundance was a great judge of character. wanted Dawes/sol/ojala/morris/shields/maguire moved on to make space for new signings the day he came in. Eventually got the majority of those out but dawes held on to damage us again this summer. The guy fancies himself as a coach but landed a nice cushty number working from his home down south thanks to his pal alexander and we are stuck with him. when a guy not long retired can scout furlong, butcher, casey, penney before his own recruitment manager that says it all! Hammell wasn't getting results and how does anyone know who he wanted moved on and when? He made the decision to punt half a dozen players in one day? That's the same Hammell who couldn't face the media the day of the cup defeat yeah? Couldn't even be arsed to tell the fans he was sorry about that result? When has Kettlewell ever hidden from an interview? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dossertillidie2 Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 6 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Hammell wasn't getting results and how does anyone know who he wanted moved on and when? He made the decision to put half a dozen players in one day? That's the same Hammell who couldn't face the media the day of the cup defeat yeah? Couldn't even be arsed to tell the fans he was sorry about that result? When has Kettlewell ever hidden from an interview? Hammell got shafted and could have called out quite a few people in that club for broken promises and some wrong doings. It’s admirable he has kept his silence since he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dossertillidie2 Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 7 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Hammell wasn't getting results and how does anyone know who he wanted moved on and when? He made the decision to put half a dozen players in one day? That's the same Hammell who couldn't face the media the day of the cup defeat yeah? Couldn't even be arsed to tell the fans he was sorry about that result? When has Kettlewell ever hidden from an interview? As for the results. The most we lost with a vastly depleted squad ( and a few days of a window) was 3 on the bounce. We just went 13 games without a win there following a number of new signings in the summer. I can’t farthom why people think results last season were worse. difference was there wasn’t a Livingston last year rooted to the bottom . you do know we are on the same points now at this time in Feb as we were under hammell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 4 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said: As for the results. The most we lost with a vastly depleted squad ( and a few days of a window) was 3 on the bounce. We just went 13 games without a win there following a number of new signings in the summer. I can’t farthom why people think results last season were worse. difference was there wasn’t a Livingston last year rooted to the bottom . you do know we are on the same points now at this time in Feb as we were under hammell? Is that to me? We won two games on the bounce as soon as Kettlewell took over with the same squad. Im quite aware of the situation we are in - let's sack Kettlewell and get someone new in eh - the revolving door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 9 hours ago, Dossertillidie2 said: you do know we are on the same points now at this time in Feb as we were under hammell? Actually, that's not true. Hammell left after 24 games when we were on 20 points. We've played 23 games so far and have 22 points. We'll see what happens on Tuesday. As shit as our results have been so far, we've been picking up points lately - 6 from our last 5 games. Hammell's side amassed a total of 1 point from his final 5 games. That might be the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 33 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said: Hammell got shafted and could have called out quite a few people in that club for broken promises and some wrong doings. It’s admirable he has kept his silence since he left. And you know that how? Insider knowledge or guesswork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dossertillidie2 Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 23 minutes ago, santheman said: And you know that how? Insider knowledge or guesswork. I wouldn’t post guesswork . What would be the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 On 4/8/2023 at 12:29 AM, Spiderpig said: For me Daws is nothing more than a scout hawking players to any club who will take them. If Motherwell feel they need a head of recruitment etc then that person should be based at the club full time, know the players, set up etc and identify players that they think will fit our system and improve on what we have. Agree with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 6 hours ago, Dossertillidie2 said: I wouldn’t post guesswork . What would be the point Ladies and gentlemen… it’s Steven Hammell 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 9 hours ago, Dossertillidie2 said: I wouldn’t post guesswork . What would be the point If you're going to post "facts" don't be selectively one sided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dossertillidie2 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said: If you're going to post "facts" don't be selectively one sided. I can’t answer for why the people did what they did tho? They can go public should they choose, they would have had to if Hammell chose to throw them under the bus. Promises were made and retracted after a couple of good results before the summer window shut. Things were leaked that shouldn’t have been. And accountability across board level wasn’t upheld. Amongst pressure to adopt a style and commitments that were ultimately torn up in the Jan when kettlewell was appointed. i have held those above accountable and had the conversations with them directly so I’m not being selective. They know they made mistakes and acknowledged that. I am just saying things were certainly not as they may have seemed from August 22 to Feb 23 and they were up against it, I have no doubt ketlewell is dealing with a number of the same issues as the last manager I do find it weird that we go on such a barren run/ question kettlewells signings/slag off Dawes / blame burrows yet are quite happy this time to keep everything the same by not wanting to change the manager as quickly as we did the last. we need new leadership at the top as quick as possible or I fear like another poster commented we will be the next Dunfermline Edited February 5 by Dossertillidie2 Had some things to add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 19 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said: I can only presume kmcalpin that you are close to one of these people that I refer to having spoken to directly about this I don't know who you have spoken to about this. However if you mean club directors or management; or Society Board members then I am not close to them nor have I spoken to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Dossertillidie2 said: I can’t answer for why the people did what they did tho? They can go public should they choose, they would have had to if Hammell chose to throw them under the bus. Promises were made and retracted after a couple of good results before the summer window shut. Things were leaked that shouldn’t have been. And accountability across board level wasn’t upheld. Amongst pressure to adopt a style and commitments that were ultimately torn up in the Jan when kettlewell was appointed. i have held those above accountable and had the conversations with them directly so I’m not being selective. They know they made mistakes and acknowledged that. I am just saying things were certainly not as they may have seemed from August 22 to Feb 23 and they were up against it, I have no doubt ketlewell is dealing with a number of the same issues as the last manager I do find it weird that we go on such a barren run/ question kettlewells signings/slag off Dawes / blame burrows yet are quite happy this time to keep everything the same by not wanting to change the manager as quickly as we did the last. we need new leadership at the top as quick as possible or I fear like another poster commented we will be the next Dunfermline Some people on here have been quite open about the fact they want Kettlewell to go. And from recollection a lot of fans didn't want Hammell to go and were hugely supportive of his appointment. If he hadn't been a club legend I think he'd have parted ways with us sooner. I certainly don't recall fans calling for his head all over social media the way some people have been with Kettlewell. A lot of fans seemed genuinely sorry that the appointment didn't work out. You seem to be suggesting that he didn't get the support he needed in the August transfer window and that he played the team in a style that he wasn't comfortable with? Surely if you are the manager and you are on the kind of run we were on at that point - if you need to make changes on the pitch you have the authority to make those changes. Otherwise what is the point of being manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 12 hours ago, Dossertillidie2 said: I wouldn’t post guesswork . What would be the point Its not the fact you are posting guesswork or not - you are suggesting that Hammell wasn't well treated but you can't say exactly what because it's for him to say - that's completely fine but it explains nothing to anyone on here. I personally didn't think Hammell was the right person for the job from the outset. I thought he was too inexperienced at that level. It was very clear that something was wrong as time went on - you could see how stressed he was in post match interviews. And yes - we are struggling just now but as someone said above - we are five matches unbeaten. From my point of view when Hammell left we didn't look as if that bad spell was going to turn around. I think we'd have been relegated without Kettlewell last season. It's a result driven business as everyone knows - sure Kettlewell knows that too. And if we hit a slump again I'm sure Kettlewell knows his job will be at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Balls of Shire Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 51 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Its not the fact you are posting guesswork or not - you are suggesting that Hammell wasn't well treated but you can't say exactly what because it's for him to say - that's completely fine but it explains nothing to anyone on here. I personally didn't think Hammell was the right person for the job from the outset. I thought he was too inexperienced at that level. It was very clear that something was wrong as time went on - you could see how stressed he was in post match interviews. And yes - we are struggling just now but as someone said above - we are five matches unbeaten. From my point of view when Hammell left we didn't look as if that bad spell was going to turn around. I think we'd have been relegated without Kettlewell last season. It's a result driven business as everyone knows - sure Kettlewell knows that too. And if we hit a slump again I'm sure Kettlewell knows his job will be at risk. I am not unhappy with Ketts, but the fact remains that Hammy never got the chance to work with the guys he brought in , e g Butcher, Obika ..can't recall the others but they did make a difference ..plus kvv decided to start playing, I mind him missing an easy chance in the Raith cup tie...that's the kind of sliding doors moment.Anywsy it's all been and gone now and hopefully he gets a chance at management again somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said: I am not unhappy with Ketts, but the fact remains that Hammy never got the chance to work with the guys he brought in , e g Butcher, Obika ..can't recall the others but they did make a difference ..plus kvv decided to start playing, I mind him missing an easy chance in the Raith cup tie...that's the kind of sliding doors moment.Anywsy it's all been and gone now and hopefully he gets a chance at management again somewhere Yeah that is a sore one - but that's football. The fact that he didn't talk to the media after the cup defeat was a sign that it was all over. He's working at Celtic just now I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, wellgirl said: And if we hit a slump again I'm sure Kettlewell knows his job will be at risk. I didn't realise we had emerged from the one win in nineteen slump. The increasing level of Kettlewell apologists on this forum reminds me of a creeping and mass onset of Stockholm syndrome. Let's hope he proves me wrong come the end of the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 16 minutes ago, wellfan said: I didn't realise we had emerged from the one win in nineteen slump. The increasing level of Kettlewell apologists on this forum reminds me of a creeping and mass onset of Stockholm syndrome. Let's hope he proves me wrong come the end of the season. Im not a Kettlewell apologist just because I don't agree with you. People should be able to have different views on the manager without being referred to as apologists. If there's only room for one opinion on this or any other football forum then what is the point of having a platform where people should be able to express different viewpoints? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 22 minutes ago, wellfan said: I didn't realise we had emerged from the one win in nineteen slump. The increasing level of Kettlewell apologists on this forum reminds me of a creeping and mass onset of Stockholm syndrome. Let's hope he proves me wrong come the end of the season. If we do win tomorrow, be interesting to see if that's described as 2 wins in 20 or 2 wins in 5. Both correct, obviously. Suppose it depends on the argument you want to make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 28 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: If we do win tomorrow, be interesting to see if that's described as 2 wins in 20 or 2 wins in 5. Both correct, obviously. Suppose it depends on the argument you want to make. If we do win tomorrow, that's all that matters. The next step would be to beat Morton. Those outcomes would shift the narrative to 4 wins & 3 draws in 7 consecutive games (including the cup) since the Rangers defeat, which would be positive. It's that simple; we need to start winning more games, and certainly more than the 2 in 20 (league and cup) we've seen on the recent run. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, wellfan said: If we do win tomorrow, that's all that matters. The next step would be to beat Morton. Those outcomes would shift the narrative to 4 wins & 3 draws in 7 consecutive games (including the cup) since the Rangers defeat, which would be positive. It's that simple; we need to start winning more games, and certainly more than the 2 in 20 (league and cup) we've seen on the recent run. From 6th place down, only Dundee, Aberdeen, St Johnstone and ourselves have won a single game out of the last 5 (same for Killie). Nobody outside the top 3 has taken more points than we have from those games, so the team should be feeling pretty good about their form, but those 3 points are like hen's teeth in this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 26 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: From 6th place down, only Dundee, Aberdeen, St Johnstone and ourselves have won a single game out of the last 5 (same for Killie). Nobody outside the top 3 has taken more points than we have from those games, so the team should be feeling pretty good about their form, but those 3 points are like hen's teeth in this league. Speaking of poultry, the average hen lays more eggs in less than a week than we've won games all season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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