Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[stv]

22 minutes ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

Like you say, as co-manager, once up they then fell off rather quickly and he ended up sacked once he was solo manager. If we are looking for a manager to win us the championship then sure, he might be a good move. However when the chips are down and we are in the dug shit there is not much to suggest hes the man for it. 

Last two games. Say what you like but I bet you didn’t think he could get us 6 points from those games and with good performances .

Martindale would laugh in yer face.

[Yoshi-1991]

1 minute ago, stv said:

Last two games. Say what you like but I bet you didn’t think he could get us 6 points from those games and with good performances .

At risk of continuing to repeat myself, we did the same thing when Alexander left, we looked good under Hammell then quickly dropped off, I don't understand how people seem to have that short of a memory. You are right I didn't see us getting 6 points but if you think the St Mirren performance was "good" then I would hate to see what you think shite is, it was 2 crap teams with one being slightly less crap. The Hearts performance was a marked improvement and will give you that we did indeed look good, however that was also helped by the fact Hearts looked utter dug meat. 

 

Don't misunderstand me, if he gets the job and keeps us improving then I will be the first to hold my hands up and admit to being wrong, but I just dont see it. Everyone seems to be distracted by the shiny 6 unexpected points and quickly forgetting we have been through this already just a short while ago. 

[bobbybingo]

1 minute ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

At risk of continuing to repeat myself, we did the same thing when Alexander left, we looked good under Hammell then quickly dropped off, I don't understand how people seem to have that short of a memory. You are right I didn't see us getting 6 points but if you think the St Mirren performance was "good" then I would hate to see what you think shite is, it was 2 crap teams with one being slightly less crap. The Hearts performance was a marked improvement and will give you that we did indeed look good, however that was also helped by the fact Hearts looked utter dug meat. 

 

Don't misunderstand me, if he gets the job and keeps us improving then I will be the first to hold my hands up and admit to being wrong, but I just dont see it. Everyone seems to be distracted by the shiny 6 unexpected points and quickly forgetting we have been through this already just a short while ago. 

I see why we shouldn't get carried away, but Kettlewell isn't Hammell, so we shouldn't automatically expect the wheels to fall off either.

Holloway should never have got near the job in the first place. One look at what went on with Grimsby tells you he's not the guy we need.

As for McCann, he's had successful spells, but he also has 2 relegations on his CV, no managerial experience of the Scottish game and will have worked with a budget way above anything we can come up with. There's little chance he'd sign a short term deal, and if we did go down, would anyone want him hanging around?

Kettlewell's a risk, but so is any appointment, and what choice do we have? 'We don't know' isnae an option.

[dennyc]

42 minutes ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

Like you say, as co-manager, once up they then fell off rather quickly and he ended up sacked once he was solo manager. If we are looking for a manager to win us the championship then sure, he might be a good move. However when the chips are down and we are in the dug shit there is not much to suggest hes the man for it. 

In his time in charge of our first team, what have you seen that suggests he is not the man for the job? Is his performance to date..although limited timewise... not relevant and to be ignored?

['WellMagic!]

25 minutes ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

At risk of continuing to repeat myself, we did the same thing when Alexander left, we looked good under Hammell then quickly dropped off, I don't understand how people seem to have that short of a memory. 

I totally get that, but I think the difference is that Hammell had zero experience. The Kettlewell and Hammell comparisons are party due to both already being at the club, but it's not a fair comparison for the most part. 

[santheman]

9 hours ago, ppower said:

He is already on the wage bill so promoting him to manager will only involve a wage increase not a new guy on the wage bill. Then Clarkson will take Kettlewells job and he is also already on the pay role. Hopefully you understand what the cheap option is now.

Not being pedantic here but Clarkson is the Academy Director and Kettlewell is Head of Youth Development so Clarkson is technically Kettlewells boss at the moment so why would he want a demotion.

[Yoshi-1991]

10 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

I see why we shouldn't get carried away, but Kettlewell isn't Hammell, so we shouldn't automatically expect the wheels to fall off either.

Holloway should never have got near the job in the first place. One look at what went on with Grimsby tells you he's not the guy we need.

As for McCann, he's had successful spells, but he also has 2 relegations on his CV, no managerial experience of the Scottish game and will have worked with a budget way above anything we can come up with. There's little chance he'd sign a short term deal, and if we did go down, would anyone want him hanging around?

Kettlewell's a risk, but so is any appointment, and what choice do we have? 'We don't know' isnae an option.

I agree that Holloway should be nowhere near, despite having to continue to argue this point with my friends that keep insisting it would be a "great appointment". McCann I honestly don't know enough about but not having experience of the Scottish game doesn't rule someone out for me. There are only so many names out there that do without using up the usual suspects merry-go-round.

I would generally be more inclined  for SK to be a number 2 to a foreign entity to Scottish football on the short term and if we do go down then have another look at him as he has experience in winning the championship.

I get that "we dont know" isnt an option but "I don't know" is as I have no idea of the list of names that applied outside of the shortlist. 

[texanwellfan]

I think the next two games will tell us if it’s different from SH or not. 

[Yoshi-1991]

5 minutes ago, 'WellMagic! said:

I totally get that, but I think the difference is that Hammell had zero experience. The Kettlewell and Hammell comparisons are party due to both already being at the club, but it's not a fair comparison for the most part. 

I agree that its not fair to compare the two but I am mostly doing it to point to the similarity of the squads attitude looking better then dropping. When looking at it I look at his pervious record and based on that alone I am not impressed. Genuinely quite shocked so many people are happy to look at someone that was sacked from Ross County for sticking them dead last in his first (and only) solo managerial job as being good enough for Motherwell. If it wasn't for the results in the 2 last games then his support for the job would be a lot less than it is now, and thats the way I am looking at it. 

[santheman]

I could understand the reluctance over Kettlewell if we were 6 games into the season when there is plenty of time for a new manager to turn things around but we have 12 games left to save our season and we are on a bit of a roll.

Keep it going for another 4/5 games and we could be relatively safe.

Best result would be if Kettlewell took the job till the end of the season or at least until we were safe then all parties sit down and re-evaluate.

Worst case scenario is Kettlewell says he wants a 2 year deal or nothing, the board agree and we don't win another game this season and end up relegated and looking at another manager search and potential pay off.

I don't for a minute envisage the worst case scenario happening though.

We then limp through to the end of the season escape relegation by the skin of our teeth and the discussion starts over whether we stick with Kettlewell or start afresh or we finish strongly and Kettlewell looks the real deal and we all live happily ever after for another season.

[Clackscat]

Being old enough to remember Roger Hynd starting his tenure with 5 straight wins before it all went pear shaped, and of course SH picking up early wins, I well understand why we should be wary of appointing someone just on 2 results.

But we need to look beyond that. How did he get the results from a demoralised bunch, and new players?, How did he approach the games tactically?, how was his ingame management?, how is his man management?, how well does he communicate? How much of a 'leader' is he?, how well does he know our opposition?

Winning 2 games is no guarantee of future success, but he ticks all the boxes on the above questions.

I would not hold Ross Co sacking against him, if he demonstrates what he learned from it and is ready to go again. Resiliance is a great thing to have, and tbf the other 'candidates' have more than one sacking, and right now are more of a risk.

And if not him then who???

[Great Balls of Shire]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:50 PM, MJC said:

It was always going to be Kettlewell, rightly or wrongly. Some on here called it months ago that he would be our next manager if and when Hammell left.

I’d actually be surprised if the club have held discussions with anyone else tbh. It’s the way it works for us, we saw it when McGhee left and Robinson took ‘interim charge’ only to be appointed on a permanent basis a few weeks later. It was the same with Hammell on an even smaller timescale. Alexander being brought in in Jan ‘21 instead of Lasley getting the gig was the only exception to that rule in recent years.

I just hope that there is an agreement or clause between both parties that his long term position is dependent on us staying up this year.

Nah, don't agree with that 

Had SK lost both games, I don't believe he would've been in the running and it's well documented the board have spoken to at least 3 others.

 

[Great Balls of Shire]

On 2/20/2023 at 2:20 PM, wunderwell said:

We do know - we played Raith.

Do we? Things are seldom as black and white as supporters want to think 

We had 2 new central defenders, just bedding in v Raith,  who've played out their skin since , Kelly pulled off a worldy on Sunday but chucked 2 in the net v Raith

['WellMagic!]

55 minutes ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

I agree that its not fair to compare the two but I am mostly doing it to point to the similarity of the squads attitude looking better then dropping. When looking at it I look at his pervious record and based on that alone I am not impressed. Genuinely quite shocked so many people are happy to look at someone that was sacked from Ross County for sticking them dead last in his first (and only) solo managerial job as being good enough for Motherwell. If it wasn't for the results in the 2 last games then his support for the job would be a lot less than it is now, and thats the way I am looking at it. 

One could make the argument that Hammell's inexperience contributed to the squad becoming disinterested. Hammell looked genuinely rattled in some of his press conferences, and I wouldn't be surprised if that translated to being rattled when preparing the team. 

Aye, the recent results have certainly changed opinions on Kettlewell, but that's a fair enough reason, to be honest. If we can keep the intensity and fight up to the end of the season, that's all that matters at the moment. Another thing that's changed people's opinions is having someone that doesn't talk shite or look out of their depth. I can't deny Kettlewell's patter has been a welcome change in tone, especially considering how fucked things have felt for a while. 

I would have never gone for Kettlewell but compared to the other two options, and other names in the hat, I don't think it would be the worst outcome (for now). I would understand the reluctance if we were between seasons, but we are where we are. Perhaps, it's just the fear of Holloway blinding me....

[MelvinBragg]

2 hours ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

At risk of continuing to repeat myself, we did the same thing when Alexander left, we looked good under Hammell then quickly dropped off, 

I disagree. We won at St Mirren first day but didn't play well at all. We then showed our glass jaw against St Johnstone. Then followed Pitoddrie, one of two good wins under Hammell. We huffed and puffed to a win against Livi before again showing weakness against Killie.

We didn't look good under Hammell initially. He got two good wins, at Pitoddrie and Dingwall. 

Whether Kettlewell is the answer, I don't know. But can people stop making out that Hammell was getting a tune out of us due to some new manager bounce...

[Coatsy]

1 hour ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

I agree that its not fair to compare the two but I am mostly doing it to point to the similarity of the squads attitude looking better then dropping. When looking at it I look at his pervious record and based on that alone I am not impressed. Genuinely quite shocked so many people are happy to look at someone that was sacked from Ross County for sticking them dead last in his first (and only) solo managerial job as being good enough for Motherwell. If it wasn't for the results in the 2 last games then his support for the job would be a lot less than it is now, and thats the way I am looking at it. 

Would hate you to be my boss one failure and your finished, pack your bags do not pass go do not collect £200. Oh and by the way i have a long memory so you've got no chance to prove yourself again.

There goes a man that's never made a mistake, there's a man that's never achieved anything

[gilmour]

Holloway stepped aside and said give to kettlewell. 
Who agreed to take the job, just a few terms to iron out then will be announced. Quite happy as long as only till season end then we all see where we are. 

[ppower]

2 hours ago, santheman said:

Not being pedantic here but Clarkson is the Academy Director and Kettlewell is Head of Youth Development so Clarkson is technically Kettlewells boss at the moment so why would he want a demotion.

Before this big promotion he was "Head Intermediate at Motherwell Academy"🤣🤣🤣🤣. Wtf. Can anyone tell me what that that role was and what he did. Answers on a postcard. Another made up job and the continual job for the boys. That's why the club is in the state it's in. Meaningless jobs for ex players.

[ppower]

9 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

So would you like it better if mccann, or Holloway had got the job and we ended up in the same position, two managers one of whom is a headcase,  who dont know the players, or Scottish football,  will bring in their own staff etc, that's risk and potential upheaval we don't need with 12 games left in a season and fighting to stay up.

Giving  the job to SK was a good risk,he's hit the ground running and seems to have the players with him, with no reorganisation of the club required. Then if it goes Pete Tong the club can have more time to recruit another manager in the summer. Personally I think SK will keep us up, and still be in charge next season.

Stevie Hammell hit the ground running and had the players with him then he crashed and burned. So let's just hop on the same merry go round with Kettlewell and hope it works. Kettlewell has won two games in a row now he is the Messiah according to some people. Also why is Burrows interviewing him as reported in the press. Two wins and be thinks he can hold a gun to the clubs head and make all sorts of demands. Tell him to fuck off.

[weeyin]

10 minutes ago, ppower said:

Stevie Hammell hit the ground running and had the players with him then he crashed and burned. So let's just hop on the same merry go round with Kettlewell and hope it works. Kettlewell has won two games in a row now he is the Messiah according to some people. Also why is Burrows interviewing him as reported in the press. Two wins and be thinks he can hold a gun to the clubs head and make all sorts of demands. Tell him to fuck off.

Which new manager do you think we could hire where we wouldn't have to "hope it works"?

Negotiating a contract for any manager will involve them asking for things and the club deciding if they accept. It's hardly holding a gun to anyone's head when the club has other options and can easily say no.

[AllyMax]

Not sure if it's maybe just me but I can see a massive and obvious difference between the Hammel Bounce and the Kettlewell Bounce. Robinson/Alexander and then Hammel all persisted with a particular formation with a striker playing on the wing and midfielders doing things they weren't suited to, the more it didn't work, the more they stuck to it. Where are all the folks who went mental the last time a Hammy team sheet was read out with Sheilds on the right wing ?

What Kettlewell did was look at the formation and change it completely. Extra defender in the middle to make a back three, Goss in the middle where he's more effective and Spittal/Cornelius pressing from the front and tracking back, trying to deliver the ball to one or two strikers in the final third rather than on the half way line or out wide. 

These changes have taken us to two wins in a row, one of them beating the clear 3rd best team in the league. So, it's not 'just two wins', it's a complete change to the way we line up and approach games.  Neither of pre-sacking Robinson, Alexander or Hammel did that, with much more time to do it.

[grizzlyg]

Must be some amount of negotiations and I can understand it from both parties.

After getting 6 out of 6 pts and a total different attitude from players we have had .aye but buddies and Jambos were rotten to ...aye but Hammell won 3/4 games..

Could be totally wrong but I don't feel that with kettlewell. I have been impressed so far but I also can see it from boards point of view as they won't want to commit initially to a 2yr deal say.

Deal to end of season with 2yr contract extension if we stay up. If we go down he gets academy job back 

[joewarkfanclub]

Some amount of animation on here today!

What do folk really think our options are?

1. Take a chance on a guy who has been out of work for 2 years, his last job was a disaster and knows nothing about our players or the Scottish game.

2. Take a chance on a guy with an ok record but with no knowledge of our players or the Scottish game.

3. Take a chance on a guy who got his team promoted from the championship, only to be relegated again the next season when his budget was cut and his co-manager moved upstairs. He also knows our players, knows all our opponents and has back to back wins against the 3rd and 4th teams in the league with a set of players who hadnt won a game since October.

We have 12 games to go folks and the next 2 games could see us safe if we win both. We dont have time to be f#cking around bedding in a new manager, new tactics etc.

I still wouldnt give Kettlewell the job beyond the end of the season, but give him guarantee its his if he keeps us up.

But making any other decision right now comes with massive risk attached.

 

I found this quite interesting....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64712164

[Yorkyred]

20 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Must be some amount of negotiations and I can understand it from both parties.

After getting 6 out of 6 pts and a total different attitude from players we have had .aye but buddies and Jambos were rotten to ...aye but Hammell won 3/4 games..

Could be totally wrong but I don't feel that with kettlewell. I have been impressed so far but I also can see it from boards point of view as they won't want to commit initially to a 2yr deal say.

Deal to end of season with 2yr contract extension if we stay up. If we go down he gets academy job back 

That’s where I am.

[wellsince75]

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Some amount of animation on here today!

What do folk really think our options are?

1. Take a chance on a guy who has been out of work for 2 years, his last job was a disaster and knows nothing about our players or the Scottish game.

2. Take a chance on a guy with an ok record but with no knowledge of our players or the Scottish game.

3. Take a chance on a guy who got his team promoted from the championship, only to be relegated again the next season when his budget was cut and his co-manager moved upstairs. He also knows our players, knows all our opponents and has back to back wins against the 3rd and 4th teams in the league with a set of players who hadnt won a game since October.

We have 12 games to go folks and the next 2 games could see us safe if we win both. We dont have time to be f#cking around bedding in a new manager, new tactics etc.

I still wouldnt give Kettlewell the job beyond the end of the season, but give him guarantee its his if he keeps us up.

But making any other decision right now comes with massive risk attached.

 

I found this quite interesting....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64712164

Feels like we're past the point of no return . Option 3. 

From what I've gleaned the demands are fair. Assurances of fall back position to current job, brining in his No2 .  Suspect wants assurances over if achieve XYZ gets the job perm. 

He comes across as straight forward, confident and wants to do well.  Even if we did have to offer the job perm , keeping us safe or moving us up the league would be worth it. 

Was expecting this to be sorted by now, sooner the better.