Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[MJC]

1 hour ago, wunderwell said:

 

Absolute doom and gloom panic merchant.

I don’t see much wrong with what he says to be fair.

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, MJC said:

I don’t see much wrong with what he says to be fair.

Aye doom and gloom your speciality, you could write his scripts 

[MJC]

34 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Aye doom and gloom your speciality, you could write his scripts 

Six losses out of seven…doom and gloom, realism/to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to.

Or perhaps you’d rather hear the story of Goldilocks and the three Bears? Albeit in the Happy Clappers version Goldilocks is wearing a Claret & Amber ribbon when the bears find her asleep in their bed having eaten their porridge and broken their chairs, so for that reason they forgive her, fire up Twist and Shout on Alexa and they all jump about the house shouting “there’s only one James McFadden”…

 

[wunderwell]

2 hours ago, MJC said:

Six losses out of seven…doom and gloom, realism/to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to.

Or perhaps you’d rather hear the story of Goldilocks and the three Bears? Albeit in the Happy Clappers version Goldilocks is wearing a Claret & Amber ribbon when the bears find her asleep in their bed having eaten their porridge and broken their chairs, so for that reason they forgive her, fire up Twist and Shout on Alexa and they all jump about the house shouting “there’s only one James McFadden”…

 

Happy Clappers. Such a patronising phrase. Let's fire out Negative Nancies at you boys for your style. If you add up the points you predict we will get in any season be lucky if it's double figures. Complete joke.

Forums suit negative people like yourself and Steelboy. Trying to talk the loudest and criticising everyone who doesn't share your viewpoint.

Tell me this why have the Hibs, Livingston, Ross County managers not been sacked yet?

 

[ropy]

The notion that KVV gets the credit for the run last year and SK gets none is nonsense. 

That being the case you couldn’t criticise the manager for recent performances as it’s all down to the players.

[grizzlyg]

14 minutes ago, ropy said:

The notion that KVV gets the credit for the run last year and SK gets none is nonsense. 

That being the case you couldn’t criticise the manager for recent performances as it’s all down to the players.

Well said

[SteelmaninOZ]

2 hours ago, ropy said:

The notion that KVV gets the credit for the run last year and SK gets none is nonsense. 

That being the case you couldn’t criticise the manager for recent performances as it’s all down to the players.

Hear Hear

[David]

15 hours ago, ropy said:

The notion that KVV gets the credit for the run last year and SK gets none is nonsense.

As is usually the case, the truth will lie somewhere in the middle. Kettlewell coming in with fresh ideas and a different approach will undoubtedly have helped, but Van Veen hitting a really rich vein of form also played a serious part.

The thing that makes me question who's really responsible for this current run of form is who actually recruited the players we brought in. I said at the start of the season that I wasn't confident in virtually all of them, and some more than others. And sadly it's now looking like it's playing out that way.

If Kettlewell is shipped out, and that's an if, we will need to do some proper recruitment in the winter window. If we don't, I don't think it matters who the manager is. No one is getting performances out of guys who are either injured or who can't score goals. 

If Kettlewell had the final say on our recruitment, then my fears about him would have been confirmed. His record when he was given the Ross County job on his own was pretty atrocious. It's looking like he's going down a similar route here when given his first full season in charge. 

I hope it's not true and that he can change things up enough to get the results needed to get to the winter window, but I have my doubts.

[grizzlyg]

Be interesting to see what kind of bad runs both Ross Co and Livingston have had past few seasons. Both teams have stood by their managers.

Current form is bad but Kettlewells record overall has been good so I still feel he is the right man to turn things round.  When we were on good run KVV was never mentioned yet suddenly once on a bad run it's like Kettlewell isn't a good manager and KVV saved our full season .....which I am not denying but he is 1 player.  I would say Casey and Butcher were just as vital.

Anyway hopefully we can get a massive 3pts on Tuesday.   COYW

[steelboy]

17 hours ago, wunderwell said:

 

Tell me this why have the Hibs, Livingston, Ross County managers not been sacked yet?

 

HIbs did sack their manager. County have drawn 3 their last 3 away games. Livi won a game in October.

[David]

28 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Current form is bad but Kettlewells record overall has been good so I still feel he is the right man to turn things round.

Our form for this season after the preliminary league cup games stands at 3 wins, 2 draws, and 7 losses. 12 goals scored, 18 conceded.

So he has a 25% win rate. 

33 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

When we were on good run KVV was never mentioned yet suddenly once on a bad run it's like Kettlewell isn't a good manager and KVV saved our full season .....which I am not denying but he is 1 player.  I would say Casey and Butcher were just as vital.

Kevin Van Veen was mentioned a lot. He scored 18 goals after the turn of the year, which played a huge part in where we finished. 

Casey and Butcher were just as vital. None of them were players that Kettlewell signed. And that's my biggest concern.

[grizzlyg]

23 minutes ago, David said:

Our form for this season after the preliminary league cup games stands at 3 wins, 2 draws, and 7 losses. 12 goals scored, 18 conceded.

So he has a 25% win rate. 

Kevin Van Veen was mentioned a lot. He scored 18 goals after the turn of the year, which played a huge part in where we finished. 

Casey and Butcher were just as vital. None of them were players that Kettlewell signed. And that's my biggest concern.

His signings so far not great but I still feel he needs time.

If I am right...and apologies if I am wrong, you were a big defender of Alexander when everyone was crying out for him to leave.

With any manager everyone will have their own views.    I just feel that we can't keep changing managers and what chance do we have attracting a replacement as they will just look at our recent past and see that managers aren't given time. Though at same time Hammell situation was totally different and needed addressed.

COYW

[grizzlyg]

27 minutes ago, David said:

Our form for this season after the preliminary league cup games stands at 3 wins, 2 draws, and 7 losses. 12 goals scored, 18 conceded.

So he has a 25% win rate. 

Kevin Van Veen was mentioned a lot. He scored 18 goals after the turn of the year, which played a huge part in where we finished. 

Casey and Butcher were just as vital. None of them were players that Kettlewell signed. And that's my biggest concern.

KVV was also helped by fact it was SK that came in and immediately changed the formation so he had a strike partner. Something we all saw was required apart from previous management 

[David]

15 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

If I am right...and apologies if I am wrong, you were a big defender of Alexander when everyone was crying out for him to leave.

I was indeed. I am not one for wanting a manager moved on. I'm usually among the last to say that they should go, and I'm usually among the very last to be critical of any player. 

This season seems different to me though. 

On Alexander, I saw the sense in him getting the job because he had a track record. He'd accomplished stuff before coming here to suggest he at least knew what he was doing.

Kettlewell hasn't. Once he got the Ross County job on his own it became clear that he was a man seemingly out of his depth. 

I think he's a really articulate speaker, and he's a great personality. But what he says and what he's managed to accomplish are two different things. I think that how he carries himself in the media gains him a lot of favour with fans. He's a confident guy who's comfortable in that settling. 

I think his signings have, for the most part, been terrible though.

I can fully get behind the moving on of the likes of Shields and Efford, but can we honestly say that the players brought in have been, on the whole, an upgrade? 

I don't see us getting anywhere with this current crop of players. Even if we brought in an experienced manager tomorrow I think they'd find it really difficult to get anything from the squad as it is.

The problem we have now is that we have Wilkinson on a two-year deal, Davor on a two-year deal, and Bair on a two-year deal. Thankfully Obika was a year-long deal with an option. The first three won't be easy to move on and trust me, if we bin Kettlewell for a new manager before January he'll be looking to do exactly that. And while those players might not be on much, it's still a decent chunk of change for a club that continually claims to have no money.

We got got rid of Danzaki, Efford, Tierney, Maguire, Lamie and McGinley this summer. And got fees for Van Veen and Shields. 

We then used that freed up financial space to sign Obika, Wilkinson, Souare, Davor, and Bair on contracts, and got Mika, Spencer, Shaw, and Gent on loan.

That's not good business in my opinion.

[grizzlyg]

When Alexander got job I also thought it was right decision and I do agree that their interview skills are a big factor.   We all remember Alexander's interviews and I think that just put a lot of folk off him...me included.

SK has media experience and you can see that.   Getting Frail in as No.2 I thought was a good decision but yep it's hard to defend the signings though with Davor we haven't had proper chance to assess him yet.

Getting rid of the attacking midfielders/ wingers means our options limited and strikers are amongst the poorest I have seen.   And this is a lad that remembers Mark Caughey!!

I really hope SK can turn things round but I will also put my hand up if things don't look like improving.

COYW

[David]

As I said about Bair in another thread, I want him to succeed. It would be mental for me, as a Motherwell fan, to not want him to become this incredible success story. 

Same with Kettlewell. I'm hoping with every fibre of my being that he can turn this around and make a success of it.

[bobbybingo]

I didn't want Kettlewell to get the job. It seemed the easy option at a lower than low point - plus, he does talk a very good game, which generally makes me suspicious of folk's actual abilities. But, like any Motherwell manager or player, I wanted him to succeed, which he did. I still feel the same and don't want to see him booted, but between his summer signings and our recent results, he's entering dangerous territory for any manager. Hopefully he can find a way out, but it needs to start soon. Preferably tomorrow night.

The basic job for every Well boss has to be, keep us up. The board's job is to make sure they neither panic nor wait too long in situations like this. I wouldn't fancy either job.

[Dossertillidie2]

3 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

His signings so far not great but I still feel he needs time.

If I am right...and apologies if I am wrong, you were a big defender of Alexander when everyone was crying out for him to leave.

With any manager everyone will have their own views.    I just feel that we can't keep changing managers and what chance do we have attracting a replacement as they will just look at our recent past and see that managers aren't given time. Though at same time Hammell situation was totally different and needed addressed.

COYW

How was Hammell’s situation different?

[bobbybingo]

15 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said:

How was Hammell’s situation different?

Results and performances deteriorated rapidly after his first few games, not following a longer period of success. He looked and sounded like a deer caught in the headlights and the players looked like they'd jacked it. That might come with Kettlewell, but we're not there yet.

[pretzel]

I had mentioned it in another thread last week but this season feels like a mirror image of last season as we got off to a strong start, we were losing despite decent performances then confidence ended up shattered and each performance got worse than the last. Hammell got 24 league games before getting his jotters but by this date last year he was sitting on 16 points but by the time he departed in early feb he left us with a paltry 20 points level with Dundee United who were bottom. I don't know what it is with us as a team but for a good number of years now we either seem to be incredibly hard to beat and go on great runs or with no rhyme or reason we do the exact the opposite there seems to be no in-between.

I hope Kettlewell can turn things around, I throughly enjoyed the last few months of the last campaign and was fairly confident we wouldn't be seeing a repeat as last season. The league is as tighter as it has ever been, three points tomorrow night would be most welcome. 

[grizzlyg]

33 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said:

How was Hammell’s situation different?

We were in total free fall under Hammell and heading for relegation.   Under Alexander we weren't as bad but he had lost the dressing room and fans.

I just feel different with SK. Won 15 out of 22 so deserves chance to turn things around 

[Dossertillidie2]

17 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

We were in total free fall under Hammell and heading for relegation.   Under Alexander we weren't as bad but he had lost the dressing room and fans.

I just feel different with SK. Won 15 out of 22 so deserves chance to turn things around 

See I have never seen it like that because I saw hammell as a guy that inherited Alexander’s team, made 4 signings. Two had returned to their parent clubs injured  by Nov and had at one point and I (quote his press conference) 13 first team players out injured

 

he was a guy who desperately needed a window and players which he got eventually but didn’t get the time to spend playing them together. The players he signed that were a big reason for our up turn in fortunes were Casey/blaney and butcher at the back and the likes of Mandron /obika to play alongside van veen

it was those same players that kettlewell inherited and got the benefit of. 
 

when you look at both managers there starting points were in stark contrast 

[grizzlyg]

19 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said:

See I have never seen it like that because I saw hammell as a guy that inherited Alexander’s team, made 4 signings. Two had returned to their parent clubs injured  by Nov and had at one point and I (quote his press conference) 13 first team players out injured

 

he was a guy who desperately needed a window and players which he got eventually but didn’t get the time to spend playing them together. The players he signed that were a big reason for our up turn in fortunes were Casey/blaney and butcher at the back and the likes of Mandron /obika to play alongside van veen

it was those same players that kettlewell inherited and got the benefit of. 
 

when you look at both managers there starting points were in stark contrast 

I definitely agree with you regarding some of the signings,  butcher and Casey were massive for us.  But he couldn't get a result and some of his last games in charge were dreadful with cup game the final straw.

I can see where you are coming from.  I just think SK has done better but we shall see.   Tomorrow night is massive 

[El Grew]

On 11/5/2023 at 12:11 PM, Ya Bezzer! said:

Back in the days mobs formed on Fir Park street screaming for McLean to get fired.  We had a chairman that actually supported the manager back then. Nowadays they are weaklings that cave to any pressure.

I’m old enough to remember when mobs formed in Fir Park Street demanding that Bobby Howitt be sacked. 😂

[davkel]

5 hours ago, David said:

 

5 hours ago, David said:

I was indeed. I am not one for wanting a manager moved on. I'm usually among the last to say that they should go, and I'm usually among the very last to be critical of any player. 

This season seems different to me though. 

On Alexander, I saw the sense in him getting the job because he had a track record. He'd accomplished stuff before coming here to suggest he at least knew what he was doing.

Kettlewell hasn't. Once he got the Ross County job on his own it became clear that he was a man seemingly out of his depth. 

I think he's a really articulate speaker, and he's a great personality. But what he says and what he's managed to accomplish are two different things. I think that how he carries himself in the media gains him a lot of favour with fans. He's a confident guy who's comfortable in that settling. 

I think his signings have, for the most part, been terrible though.

I can fully get behind the moving on of the likes of Shields and Efford, but can we honestly say that the players brought in have been, on the whole, an upgrade? 

I don't see us getting anywhere with this current crop of players. Even if we brought in an experienced manager tomorrow I think they'd find it really difficult to get anything from the squad as it is.

The problem we have now is that we have Wilkinson on a two-year deal, Davor on a two-year deal, and Bair on a two-year deal. Thankfully Obika was a year-long deal with an option. The first three won't be easy to move on and trust me, if we bin Kettlewell for a new manager before January he'll be looking to do exactly that. And while those players might not be on much, it's still a decent chunk of change for a club that continually claims to have no money.

We got got rid of Danzaki, Efford, Tierney, Maguire, Lamie and McGinley this summer. And got fees for Van Veen and Shields. 

We then used that freed up financial space to sign Obika, Wilkinson, Souare, Davor, and Bair on contracts, and got Mika, Spencer, Shaw, and Gent on loan.

That's not good business in my opinion.

The manager didn’t get any of the VV money ….