Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[David]

20 minutes ago, MJC said:

I’ve spoken to a few who would have Faddy as manager.

Then that maybe speaks to the people you associate with, because I know of no one, in "real life" or on this forum who would advocate for McFadden to get the job.

[Luc91]

4 hours ago, David said:

I think before we sack another manager we need to ask ourselves a few questions.

1. Are we realistically going to get someone else in before the end of the month? And by someone else, I mean an actual, proper candidate. Not Stevie Frail or David Clarkson.

2. Will another manager find himself in a position to make wholesale changes in January? Because the chances are that a new manager is going to want to change things up quite a bit, and this current squad is very much built to Kettlewell's specification, including no natural wingers, and very light on actual midfielders.

3. Is sacking yet another manager actually the answer? Is it the correct message to send out to the players, that whenever they find themselves in a situation where they underperform, they won't be held accountable? And that they'll be given a clean slate with a new manager?

I think we need to take all of the above into account. For me, unless we have an outstanding candidate who is ready and willing to jump in straight away, there's no point in sacking Kettlewell.

One thing we do know is that he's capable of getting something from this group of players. He did it before. Maybe he can do it again? I don't know if a fresh face for the sake of "something must be done!!!!" is the answer.

EDIT: Also, I've merged the "new manager" thread with this one. I don't think it's quite right to be discussing a new manager as if it's a foregone conclusion when we still have a gaffer in the dugout. 

Kettlewell's set- ups really suggest a man who is trying anything to get a turnaround.  Kelly's comments after the Celtic game (actually more about how he spoke) show, I think, that he's still got a good relationship with the players.  

I think our financial structure means that it's always a battle- whether that's to do things to the stadium/ pitch, or to offer decent contracts.  Flo left because of all that, and I think that's when things started to go west.  Robinson leaving was a mixture of poor results and no cash being available to remedy things (only have to look at the fact that St. Mirren are Motherwell's second XI). 

Stevie Hammell took the job because he's Motherwell inside and out; Kettlewell because he needed an "in" to Scottish football again.

We can't afford another change in Manager, so I think we're stuck with Kettlewell.  Of course, he could decide to walk; whatever else is said about him, he's not a waster and will call time on his own, without any push.

Who'd be a Motherwell fan?  Oh aye.....................

[texanwellfan]

34 minutes ago, star sail said:

It is really difficult to know where to start with this. The third manager in as many seasons suffering the same drop off in performance level from his players as the previous two men.

Go back just 3 months ago and this same team had just won away to Hearts with Kettlewell enjoying once of the best win percentage of any manager in the clubs history. Can it really become a terminal situation once again in such a short space of time?

Reading the forum last night was bizarre. Not only were there some posters almost relishing the position the team finds itself in once more but there were others showing hostility towards those who have attempted to support the manager over this difficult few months. Some of the language is tasteless and highly emotive, particularly when we consider that Kettlewell is a man who saved us from relegation last season and has clearly given his all to make his time a success. 

I should not be surprised. Swap out the name of  Kettlewell for Hammell/ Alexander/ Robinson/ Baraclough etc.... and it is an all to familiar read on these boards.

Last night was a worry but I don't think it necessary means the end for Kettlewell. I think his team selection last night was one of a man who has let the pressure get to him. He has lost his head somewhat as one poster described it. This does not make him a poor manager necessarily, just a guy that is not thinking straight under difficult circumstances.

I think this is the sort of time that club chairmen need to step in and do their bit. Help the manager ( in this case Kettlewell) clear his head. Try to help him see clearly once more. What was working so well just six months ago that is not working now? How can we get back to making simple, effective decisions.

I want Kettlewell to get the gig on Saturday for four very simple reasons:

1. I would love to see the guy turn it round and give the club some much needed stability. 

2. To see the club buck the modern trend of sacking managers at the first sign of trouble. As a club we are quickly gaining a reputation for just that unfortunately.

3. It might just break a culture in the club where players down tools at the first sign of trouble should Kettlewell be able to turn this round.

4. If Kettlewell could turn this round it might silence, for just a little while, those on these boards that offer little by way of support to the manager or the team.

It is the easiest thing in the world to say that the manager is rubbish and should be sacked because in all likelihood most managers are now just 4/5 poor results away from the sack. It does not make you a visionary to spout the same negative vibes time and time again to then claim victory when almost enivitably managers are shown the door.

I am not saying Kettlewell will turn this round. Actually for the first time last night I think the balance shifted towards him not getting out of this. All I am saying is that I hope every option of support is given to him at the club to help him turn this round. If he gets that chance this weekend we need to back him. The atmosphere does not have to be toxic unless the fans choose to make it that way.

 

 

Not a popular post, I’m sure, but I’m with you. The board need to take him aside and have a word with him. Calm him down, redirect his focus onto the things that worked, re institute a firm grounding in the basics and tweak from there. Do not make radical wholesale changes from week to week.  At four games or so into this bad run we were still playing very well and had we continued to play that way we would not be in this mess. However, we now have confidence/mental side of things causing us issues as well. The players and manager need to get the last 11 or so results out of their head. The focus is going forward. Consider the next 17 games as a mini season starting from scratch and focus on that league table. I’m done with sacking managers. We have already have the advantage of hindsight on that, it doesn’t work, it just leads us back to where we were. We are all in it together so the board, the players especially, and the fans need to support and encourage the manager and team. As mentioned, I think it’s very cruciaL that the board Support and guide him to keep his head straight and steer him away from panic actions. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

41 minutes ago, MJC said:

It is a great post and in particular it raises a very important issue that seems to being missed by a lot of people. That the players and a good few of the same ones at that, have appeared to chuck it under three different managers now. The same also happened under Robinson but I think there’s only SO’D and Mugabi still at the club from when he left at the end of 2020.

That would point to the real issues at the club going deeper than the man in the dugout. Too many at Fir Park have been allowed to live in a comfort zone for too long and this applies on and off the park in my opinion. The decision making with regards to recruitment, the appointing of managers and the process of replacing a failed manager have been amateurish for far too long, particularly going back to summer 2022 when Hammell was given the gig. And on the park the fact that Stephen O’Donnell is still with the club atall never mind getting a regular game is shocking. He is and has been nothing but an imposter in our jersey and his attitude and application is woeful and that is something that has ran through the tenures of Robinson, Alexander, Hammell and now SK. Yet he’s still getting a game. That’s a someone in a comfort zone right there.

 But Alexander was the bad guy for dropping him?

[grizzlyg]

47 minutes ago, MJC said:

It is a great post and in particular it raises a very important issue that seems to being missed by a lot of people. That the players and a good few of the same ones at that, have appeared to chuck it under three different managers now. The same also happened under Robinson but I think there’s only SO’D and Mugabi still at the club from when he left at the end of 2020.

That would point to the real issues at the club going deeper than the man in the dugout. Too many at Fir Park have been allowed to live in a comfort zone for too long and this applies on and off the park in my opinion. The decision making with regards to recruitment, the appointing of managers and the process of replacing a failed manager have been amateurish for far too long, particularly going back to summer 2022 when Hammell was given the gig. And on the park the fact that Stephen O’Donnell is still with the club atall never mind getting a regular game is shocking. He is and has been nothing but an imposter in our jersey and his attitude and application is woeful and that is something that has ran through the tenures of Robinson, Alexander, Hammell and now SK. Yet he’s still getting a game. That’s a someone in a comfort zone right there.

I don't get the criticism SOD gets, yes he is hardly a world beater but he seems to get more criticism than anyone else.  If injuries to butcher and Casey not great then we will need him on right of a 3 man defence with Spencer wide right and Gent wide left.

[mfc88]

Credit where its due and that is Kettlewell digging us out a hole last season.

However, we are rapidly spiralling into that hole again. This run must be comparable if not worse than the last 12 games of hammells time in charge. Last season only banks so much credit - there's no point getting us out a mess to find ourselves right back in it the very next season.

No clue of the answers but how long does he get? December? January? 5 more games in December ending with bottom placed livi could be a disaster if we don't start racking up points starting this weekend, but right now it's impossible to see where a win is coming from. A rejuvenated st Johnstone followed by a tough St mirren side then rangers, and Aberdeen away.

I want him to succeed as much as the next well fan but if we don't win this weekend it's difficult to see any other fate for Kettlewell.

[wellfan]

Some people need to give their heads a wobble and realise that a business decision has to be made here. We're in freefall and have been for a while, and inaction will see us relegated.

Putting the poor results aside, the majority of signings and player movements in/out have been questionable, to say the least, and as awful as our form, to put it accurately.

With that in mind, to give Kettlewell and Daws another transfer window would be a grossly negligent use of funds. It's that simple to me. Whether that means replacing Kettlewell or Daws (or both), the decision is down to the Board, and they must act before it's too late. 

[stv]

6 hours ago, wellfan said:

Giving Kettlewell the January window (to likely fuck up again) would be like gifting gloves to an armless man. If that happens, and we go down, I don't think many fans could forgive the Board and will act with their feet and wallets by taking them elsewhere. 

Where exactly do you mean ? parkhead, ibrox or accies . Aye right thick and thin well fan forever.

[wellfan]

1 minute ago, stv said:

Where exactly do you mean ? parkhead, ibrox or accies . Aye right thick and thin well fan forever.

Given the cost of living crisis meaning everything is now ridiculously expensive, if that scenario played out, I imagine folk would quickly start to get bored of paying good money to watch a bunch of useless imposters get their team relegated.

None of what I suggested was about switching allegiances, it was more about people likely becoming unwilling to part with their cash for little to no positive reward or even minimal enjoyment. A percentage of our support would likely start to follow from afar. It's not difficult to imagine that play out given the context. 

[David]

17 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Some people need to give their heads a wobble and realise that a business decision has to be made here. We're in freefall and have been for a while, and inaction will see us relegated.

No one is suggesting that inaction is the way forward. It's just that some people see a different form of action other than bumping the manager, installing his assistant or the current youth coach, and trying to find a replacement before the transfer window opens in less than a month.

Inaction will cost us, but so will a bad reaction. 

[joewarkfanclub]

2 hours ago, star sail said:

It is really difficult to know where to start with this. The third manager in as many seasons suffering the same drop off in performance level from his players as the previous two men.

Go back just 3 months ago and this same team had just won away to Hearts with Kettlewell enjoying once of the best win percentage of any manager in the clubs history. Can it really become a terminal situation once again in such a short space of time?

Reading the forum last night was bizarre. Not only were there some posters almost relishing the position the team finds itself in once more but there were others showing hostility towards those who have attempted to support the manager over this difficult few months. Some of the language is tasteless and highly emotive, particularly when we consider that Kettlewell is a man who saved us from relegation last season and has clearly given his all to make his time a success. 

I should not be surprised. Swap out the name of  Kettlewell for Hammell/ Alexander/ Robinson/ Baraclough etc.... and it is an all to familiar read on these boards.

Last night was a worry but I don't think it necessary means the end for Kettlewell. I think his team selection last night was one of a man who has let the pressure get to him. He has lost his head somewhat as one poster described it. This does not make him a poor manager necessarily, just a guy that is not thinking straight under difficult circumstances.

I think this is the sort of time that club chairmen need to step in and do their bit. Help the manager ( in this case Kettlewell) clear his head. Try to help him see clearly once more. What was working so well just six months ago that is not working now? How can we get back to making simple, effective decisions.

I want Kettlewell to get the gig on Saturday for four very simple reasons:

1. I would love to see the guy turn it round and give the club some much needed stability. 

2. To see the club buck the modern trend of sacking managers at the first sign of trouble. As a club we are quickly gaining a reputation for just that unfortunately.

3. It might just break a culture in the club where players down tools at the first sign of trouble should Kettlewell be able to turn this round.

4. If Kettlewell could turn this round it might silence, for just a little while, those on these boards that offer little by way of support to the manager or the team.

It is the easiest thing in the world to say that the manager is rubbish and should be sacked because in all likelihood most managers are now just 4/5 poor results away from the sack. It does not make you a visionary to spout the same negative vibes time and time again to then claim victory when almost enivitably managers are shown the door.

I am not saying Kettlewell will turn this round. Actually for the first time last night I think the balance shifted towards him not getting out of this. All I am saying is that I hope every option of support is given to him at the club to help him turn this round. If he gets that chance this weekend we need to back him. The atmosphere does not have to be toxic unless the fans choose to make it that way.

 

 

Great post.

[joewarkfanclub]

8 hours ago, David said:

You're talking nonsense right there. Don't make the naive error of believing that because someone is a supporter of the club, isn't overly negative, and tries to see the positives that they're absolute morons. 

No one I have spoken to would want Faddy to get the job. At all. If he did get it, would they support him? Absolutely. Big difference there though.

As a self confessed "happy clapper" I have to agree. Faddy should be nowhere near the job. Similar to Hammell, who I didnt think should have been appointed, but backed to the hilt until the bitter end. Its kinda what supporters are supposed to do.

[Kmcalpin]

3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

This is where we could really do with the Well Society stepping up.

If we really are a fan owned club then we should be able to influence the direction of it.

Demanding that the correct processes be put in place for a secure future would be a good starting point.

Yes change is required and the Society needs to step up. Fans, that is members, did have the opportunity to influence the direction. How many of us took that opportinity and voted?

[El Grew]

9 hours ago, steelman1991 said:

He was interviewed last time and knocked back.

Do you know whether he knocked us back or we knocked him back?

[joewarkfanclub]

37 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes change is required and the Society needs to step up. Fans, that is members, did have the opportunity to influence the direction. How many of us took that opportinity and voted?

I voted.

Hopefully for individuals that would push for change......

[El Grew]

3 hours ago, star sail said:

I think this is the sort of time that club chairmen need to step in and do their bit. Help the manager ( in this case Kettlewell) clear his head. Try to help him see clearly once more. What was working so well just six months ago that is not working now? How can we get back to making simple, effective decisions.

That particular scenario has been played out umpteen times in clubs around the country and usually ends only one way.

Chairman issues statement that manager has the full backing and support of the board. Team lose next game and manager is bulleted.

[Spiderpig]

3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

That definitely has to stop.

This is where we could really do with the Well Society stepping up.

If we really are a fan owned club then we should be able to influence the direction of it.

Demanding that the correct processes be put in place for a secure future would be a good starting point.

As a non well society member are we really a fan owned club ie does the well society control a majority shareholding, as if they don't then any opinions, recommendations, ideas etc might be listened to but equally might be ignored.

I get the impression that the current board members might well be successful business people in their own fields but are amateurs at running a football club, so does the WS have any real influence regarding current or future club policy etc.

[Kmcalpin]

11 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

As a non well society member are we really a fan owned club ie does the well society control a majority shareholding, as if they don't then any opinions, recommendations, ideas etc might be listened to but equally might be ignored.

I get the impression that the current board members might well be successful business people in their own fields but are amateurs at running a football club, so does the WS have any real influence regarding current or future club policy etc.

The Society owns a majority of the club's shares, Allan. There are also a large number of small shareholders like myself. I can't recall the exact percentage but suspect the Society owns about 60%. Maybe someone else can give us the exact percentage. As such, the Society should exert a controlling interest. Maybe time for individual members to be more vocal?

[joewarkfanclub]

28 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

The Society owns a majority of the club's shares, Allan. There are also a large number of small shareholders like myself. I can't recall the exact percentage but suspect the Society owns about 60%. Maybe someone else can give us the exact percentage. As such, the Society should exert a controlling interest. Maybe time for individual members to be more vocal?

This ^^^

[GazzyB]

I'm not a fan of bringing Faddy back, and to be honest I don't think he's all that interested.

 

Stephen Craigan though? A bit of coaching experience in the past, could hopefully sort us out defensively, and knows the club inside out. Then again, a completely fresh set of eyes could be better than somebody who's been here before.

 

Whoever it is, it's imperative the board gets this one right.

 

[wunderwell]

42 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

The Society owns a majority of the club's shares, Allan. There are also a large number of small shareholders like myself. I can't recall the exact percentage but suspect the Society owns about 60%. Maybe someone else can give us the exact percentage. As such, the Society should exert a controlling interest. Maybe time for individual members to be more vocal?

Nature of control

Ownership of shares – 75% or more

[wunderwell]

For me keep the manager and Daws to go.

[wellsince75]

5 minutes ago, wunderwell said:

For me keep the manager and Daws to go.

Agree re Daws . It’s a joke that 30 players signed only 7 left and the could see there 4th manager in small space of time .

 

the article on bbc could have been written by @David , very similar points that he outlined last week .

 

chairman needs his backside kicked , can’t be that hard to get a ceo , not hard to spot recruitment issues and that’s 2 rookie managers that he’s hired .

dont blame  SH or SK for going for the role but club are being lazy . 

it’s clear that recruitment is brutal , clear that if smaller squad we should pay higher salary for better talent .

sadly it’s also clear that SK has lost the plot with formations and the 7 players who have cost other managers their job don’t have the quality required to save SK .

quite a bit needs to happen beyond just sacking a manager 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67636847

[Spiderpig]

18 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Agree re Daws . It’s a joke that 30 players signed only 7 left and the could see there 4th manager in small space of time .

 

the article on bbc could have been written by @David , very similar points that he outlined last week .

 

chairman needs his backside kicked , can’t be that hard to get a ceo , not hard to spot recruitment issues and that’s 2 rookie managers that he’s hired .

dont blame  SH or SK for going for the role but club are being lazy . 

it’s clear that recruitment is brutal , clear that if smaller squad we should pay higher salary for better talent .

sadly it’s also clear that SK has lost the plot with formations and the 7 players who have cost other managers their job don’t have the quality required to save SK .

quite a bit needs to happen beyond just sacking a manager 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67636847

As I've said before, the club is in the hands of amateurs who have no idea how to run a football club, they are culpable for signing off on the shite recruitment in recent seasons, no CEO etc etc. A complete root and branch overhaul is required re the operating model and future direction of the club, for me it's the only way we are going to remain as a premiership club.

[steelman1991]

2 hours ago, El Grew said:

Do you know whether he knocked us back or we knocked him back?

We knocked him back.