wellgirl Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 31 minutes ago, wellfan said: That's completely fine to have that view, but I think it shows the opposite for the reasons I've outlined. We took the cheap and/or easy option. There are also zero guarantees that promoting from within would lead to us doing better, but we still went for that option. I've avoided suggesting or discounting any names on this topic, but my view is that being more ambitious doesn't have to mean seeking a ‘bigger name’, such as Goodwin or Lennon, but that we could've looked beyond our own ranks for someone with more first-team managerial experience, demonstrable tactical nous, and some relative success. For example, a lower league experienced manager who's shown they're capable of stepping up. Instead, we’ve got someone learning on the job, albeit he kept us up last season, but the learning curve has proven costly this season in terms of the lack of cup progression and league position. He has a massive (third) transfer window ahead of him, otherwise, next season will likely be more of the same. There were only a few people interviewed for the vacant position if I'm right. Holloway I believe and possibly Valakari. Its not as if Kettlewell was competing with a host of big names and got the job ahead of them. Surely it also has to come down to who actually applies for the vacancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 18 minutes ago, wellfan said: See my above comments. That it's not your job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 3 hours ago, wellfan said: As I’ve said many times on here in defence of my argument for having ambition and in response to those of cry wolf about what has happened to Dundee United, Gretna, etc., it doesn't have to be a famine-to-feast scenario for us. There's fiscal prudence and there's throwing millions, but there's also an in-between, and it’s that middle ground I would like to see implemented once the Club and Society have sorted out the governance and financial side of things. It's tiresome reading responses from folks who consistently shout ‘But look at club x, y, z’ when someone dares to suggest the Club has a little ambition. I'm accused of being negative about Kettlewell, which is fine, but the negativity towards those who suggest seeking to achieve something better is equally loud. Have some ambition! I know we have had our differences on a few things but I think this is so spot on. For a good while my concern has been that our long term strategy is largely based on substantial income from player sales. That is just not sustainable and so full of risk....Admittedly Covid interrupting youth development did not help. We are now seeing exactly what happens when lack of a major sale coincides with poor on field performance. The current "get out of jail" card is clearly Lennon Miller who, but for injury, would likely have been sold by now. How that would have affected our fight for league survival nobody knows. And let's not forget that we have actually benefited from players sales in this time, KVV as an example. It is just not enough. in my opinion the Club's entire operating strategy needs reviewed and one positive of the forthcoming Board changes is that such a complete Club review should happen. Time for new blood and fresh ideas. My sense is that our departing Board members have simply run out of ideas. Hopefully whoever constitutes the new Board can come up with a solution that enables us to at least break even each season. Also, and this understandably will not go down too well with many, there has been too much reliance on Well Society funds. What was intended as a back up facility appears to me to have become the go to option when it comes to "projects" the Club and others wish to undertake but cannot afford. A Piggy Bank to be raided. Couple that approach with the dilution of Society monies to appease Les Hutchison and it explains why Society monies are over £1m down on where they could have been. Thankfully, from Jay's comments, that is a situation that should not continue. Hopefully all Society Board Members, new and old, will now adopt the same approach. I hope the WS continues to grow and can become the asset that was originally proposed. But if the Club is to thrive at our current level then I believe that outside investment is required to fund the year on year football operations. As discussed previously, that Investment must come with legally binding guarantees that protect the Club, and from investors that recognise the true purpose of the WS and are prepared to work side by side on that basis. Not an easy find. Not related to Motherwell. so apologies if not thought relevant to MFC. . I was talking to a Hibs fan yesterday who informed me that their American investor (Foley) is actually introducing £6m per year for each of the next 5 years. I had not appreciated that the deal involved such an annual input. Also, a colleague of Foley is in discussion regards the input of a "one off" £10m. Only time will tell, but the terms they have negotiated don't appear to threaten the assets the Club owns or intrude massively in day to day operations. Fans will talk about "feeder" clubs but there is no evidence as yet to support that, and even if it is the case, where is the harm in players switching Clubs given that rules exist re value for money. As we have seen, non affiliated loan deals can cause bigger issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 50 minutes ago, wellgirl said: There were only a few people interviewed for the vacant position if I'm right. Holloway I believe and possibly Valakari. Its not as if Kettlewell was competing with a host of big names and got the job ahead of them. Surely it also has to come down to who actually applies for the vacancy. Valakari always gets mentioned and allegedly interviewed for every managers job we have irrespective of whether he wants the job or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, Spiderpig said: Valakari always gets mentioned and allegedly interviewed for every managers job we have irrespective of whether he wants the job or not. I believe it was fairly common knowledge that he applied for the job Alexander got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 50 minutes ago, dennyc said: I was talking to a Hibs fan yesterday who informed me that their American investor (Foley) is actually introducing £6m per year for each of the next 5 years. I had not appreciated that the deal involved such an annual input. Also, a colleague of Foley is in discussion regards the input of a "one off" £10m. Only time will tell, but the terms they have negotiated don't appear to threaten the assets the Club owns or intrude massively in day to day operations. Fans will talk about "feeder" clubs but there is no evidence as yet to support that, and even if it is the case, where is the harm in players switching Clubs given that rules exist re value for money. As we have seen, non affiliated loan deals can cause bigger issues. If something sounds too good to be true it probably is. I must admit to being very suspicious about Hibs' deal. I just don't believe that the philanthropists have appeared and are giving Hibs money with no strings attached. Dundee United and their philanthropists come to mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 46 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: If something sounds too good to be true it probably is. I must admit to being very suspicious about Hibs' deal. I just don't believe that the philanthropists have appeared and are giving Hibs money with no strings attached. Dundee United and their philanthropists come to mind. I get your suspicion. Understandable. The challenge is sorting out the good from bad. And care needs to be exercised. The protections Hibs appear to have inbuilt suggests to me to that this is not the raid that some are fearing. Time will tell of course, but there is no evidence of ill intent so far. The opposite in fact. And speculation about asset stripping, feeder club is exactly that. Speculation based on a distrust of the deal or that the share purchase reduces fan ownership percentage. But I take your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, dennyc said: I know we have had our differences on a few things but I think this is so spot on. For a good while my concern has been that our long term strategy is largely based on substantial income from player sales. That is just not sustainable and so full of risk....Admittedly Covid interrupting youth development did not help. We are now seeing exactly what happens when lack of a major sale coincides with poor on field performance. The current "get out of jail" card is clearly Lennon Miller who, but for injury, would likely have been sold by now. How that would have affected our fight for league survival nobody knows. And let's not forget that we have actually benefited from players sales in this time, KVV as an example. It is just not enough. in my opinion the Club's entire operating strategy needs reviewed and one positive of the forthcoming Board changes is that such a complete Club review should happen. Time for new blood and fresh ideas. My sense is that our departing Board members have simply run out of ideas. Hopefully whoever constitutes the new Board can come up with a solution that enables us to at least break even each season. Also, and this understandably will not go down too well with many, there has been too much reliance on Well Society funds. What was intended as a back up facility appears to me to have become the go to option when it comes to "projects" the Club and others wish to undertake but cannot afford. A Piggy Bank to be raided. Couple that approach with the dilution of Society monies to appease Les Hutchison and it explains why Society monies are over £1m down on where they could have been. Thankfully, from Jay's comments, that is a situation that should not continue. Hopefully all Society Board Members, new and old, will now adopt the same approach. I hope the WS continues to grow and can become the asset that was originally proposed. But if the Club is to thrive at our current level then I believe that outside investment is required to fund the year on year football operations. As discussed previously, that Investment must come with legally binding guarantees that protect the Club, and from investors that recognise the true purpose of the WS and are prepared to work side by side on that basis. Not an easy find. Not related to Motherwell. so apologies if not thought relevant to MFC. . I was talking to a Hibs fan yesterday who informed me that their American investor (Foley) is actually introducing £6m per year for each of the next 5 years. I had not appreciated that the deal involved such an annual input. Also, a colleague of Foley is in discussion regards the input of a "one off" £10m. Only time will tell, but the terms they have negotiated don't appear to threaten the assets the Club owns or intrude massively in day to day operations. Fans will talk about "feeder" clubs but there is no evidence as yet to support that, and even if it is the case, where is the harm in players switching Clubs given that rules exist re value for money. As we have seen, non affiliated loan deals can cause bigger issues. Nobody invests £30 million over 5 years or a one off £10 million without the guarantee of a significant return, I suspect it will be when the investors get bored or want their cash back that the true nature of these deals will become evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 16 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: Nobody invests £30 million over 5 years or a one off £10 million without the guarantee of a significant return, I suspect it will be when the investors get bored or want their cash back that the true nature of these deals will become evident. You could well be correct. But as I said, based on caution and suspicion. Nothing wrong with that. But it is not based on any evidence we have seen so far. Anyway, that's Hibs problem so we can wait and see. I imagine similar discussions will take place if we secure any sort of offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 4 hours ago, wellgirl said: There were only a few people interviewed for the vacant position if I'm right. Holloway I believe and possibly Valakari. Its not as if Kettlewell was competing with a host of big names and got the job ahead of them. Surely it also has to come down to who actually applies for the vacancy. Fair point. February is a strange time to be looking for a new manager. I guess we’ll never know if there were more than 3 candidates unless someone here knows?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 4 hours ago, bobbybingo said: That it's not your job? Correct. It's not yours either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 4 hours ago, dennyc said: I know we have had our differences on a few things but I think this is so spot on. For a good while my concern has been that our long term strategy is largely based on substantial income from player sales. That is just not sustainable and so full of risk....Admittedly Covid interrupting youth development did not help. We are now seeing exactly what happens when lack of a major sale coincides with poor on field performance. The current "get out of jail" card is clearly Lennon Miller who, but for injury, would likely have been sold by now. How that would have affected our fight for league survival nobody knows. And let's not forget that we have actually benefited from players sales in this time, KVV as an example. It is just not enough. in my opinion the Club's entire operating strategy needs reviewed and one positive of the forthcoming Board changes is that such a complete Club review should happen. Time for new blood and fresh ideas. My sense is that our departing Board members have simply run out of ideas. Hopefully whoever constitutes the new Board can come up with a solution that enables us to at least break even each season. Also, and this understandably will not go down too well with many, there has been too much reliance on Well Society funds. What was intended as a back up facility appears to me to have become the go to option when it comes to "projects" the Club and others wish to undertake but cannot afford. A Piggy Bank to be raided. Couple that approach with the dilution of Society monies to appease Les Hutchison and it explains why Society monies are over £1m down on where they could have been. Thankfully, from Jay's comments, that is a situation that should not continue. Hopefully all Society Board Members, new and old, will now adopt the same approach. I hope the WS continues to grow and can become the asset that was originally proposed. But if the Club is to thrive at our current level then I believe that outside investment is required to fund the year on year football operations. As discussed previously, that Investment must come with legally binding guarantees that protect the Club, and from investors that recognise the true purpose of the WS and are prepared to work side by side on that basis. Not an easy find. Not related to Motherwell. so apologies if not thought relevant to MFC. . I was talking to a Hibs fan yesterday who informed me that their American investor (Foley) is actually introducing £6m per year for each of the next 5 years. I had not appreciated that the deal involved such an annual input. Also, a colleague of Foley is in discussion regards the input of a "one off" £10m. Only time will tell, but the terms they have negotiated don't appear to threaten the assets the Club owns or intrude massively in day to day operations. Fans will talk about "feeder" clubs but there is no evidence as yet to support that, and even if it is the case, where is the harm in players switching Clubs given that rules exist re value for money. As we have seen, non affiliated loan deals can cause bigger issues. This we can agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 25 minutes ago, wellfan said: Correct. It's not yours either. Very true. But I'm not suggesting we replace the current manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 14 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: Very true. But I'm not suggesting we replace the current manager. I'm sure he'll be pleased to have your support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 6 minutes ago, wellfan said: I'm sure he'll be pleased to have your support. I'm sure he has the same interest in what any of us say on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 7 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: I'm sure he has the same interest in what any of us say on here. And I am sure he has many more words to say than most on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 1 minute ago, wellfan said: And I am sure he has many more words to say than most on here. Of that, we can be absolutely sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 3 hours ago, wellfan said: Fair point. February is a strange time to be looking for a new manager. I guess we’ll never know if there were more than 3 candidates unless someone here knows?! Holloway. Valakari and I believe Lambert said he was interested but wanted the club to approach him. I have no idea who else applied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 I've got to hand it to Kettlewell in that interview. You would never know by listening him to we've only had two league wins at home in 7 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Just now, steelboy said: I've got to hand it to Kettlewell in that interview. You would never know by listening him to we've only had two league wins at home in 7 months. Shut up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 We need to cut him some slack today. He made a few errors in terms of tactics and line up today but he's inexperienced and still learning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 57 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: We need to cut him some slack today. He made a few errors in terms of tactics and line up today but he's inexperienced and still learning. I don't believe he's inexperienced. He was Co manager at Ross County for two years. He's an ex professional footballer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Hard to forget we beat Rangers 2 games ago. All of a sudden he is a bad manager again.. we were poor today ..it happens to all teams but we still managed to scramble a point...we move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 9 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: Hard to forget we beat Rangers 2 games ago. All of a sudden he is a bad manager again.. we were poor today ..it happens to all teams but we still managed to scramble a point...we move on Agree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 Aberdeen game proves his bad tactical ability and lack of confidence in his team. Defending for first twenty minutes waiting to see what they were going to do first instead of being positive going for it against a poor Aberdeen side . Thats just about sums up his ability as a manager with us. He thinks he’s smarter than he really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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