FirParkCornerExile Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 9 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: We've currently lost 53 goals, the same number we lost last season. In the last 10 years we've conceded fewer goals on only 2 occasions. If we manage to score 3 goals in the remaining games we'll match last season's total, which was the highest return for more than a decade. So the issue is neither the leakiest defence we've had nor a powderpuff attack. We've become harder to beat at exactly the same time we've found it harder to win. Doesn't necessarily make for great excitement, but it's not the worst we've ever suffered either. You have a point but if we want to improve we need to look at being better defensively. The fact the number of goal we lose has been consistent doesnt make it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 6 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: You have a point but if we want to improve we need to look at being better defensively. The fact the number of goal we lose has been consistent doesnt make it good. Our defence has been poor this season. Think everyone knows that. However thankfully we've scored a very decent amount of goals to compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 4 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: You have a point but if we want to improve we need to look at being better defensively. The fact the number of goal we lose has been consistent doesnt make it good. No, it doesn't. Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game. In previous years we had more clean sheets, but we took a fair few doings along the way too. Our goal difference is the best outside the top 4 and only 4 teams have lost fewer games. God knows what all those stats tell us, other than we were as close to having a pretty good season as we were a disastrous one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 9 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: No, it doesn't. Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game. In previous years we had more clean sheets, but we took a fair few doings along the way too. Our goal difference is the best outside the top 4 and only 4 teams have lost fewer games. God knows what all those stats tell us, other than we were as close to having a pretty good season as we were a disastrous one. "Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game" ... so does that not suggest we need to concede less goals thus getting more points from games that we narrowly lost or drew. I think it does. Sure you can argue if we score more the net improvement could be the same. However I think that's a seriously harder ask than cutting out some of the comedy gold goals we gave away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 3 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: "Our problem defensively this season has been losing a relatively small number of goals per game, but in almost every game" ... so does that not suggest we need to concede less goals thus getting more points from games that we narrowly lost or drew. I think it does. Sure you can argue if we score more the net improvement could be the same. However I think that's a seriously harder ask than cutting out some of the comedy gold goals we gave away. Yeah, it does suggest that. Then again, Dundee have lost more goals than us and scored fewer, yet they're in the top 6, so it's not quite that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 2 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: Yeah, it does suggest that. Then again, Dundee have lost more goals than us and scored fewer, yet they're in the top 6, so it's not quite that simple. Absolutely. But obviously they've scored the goals where it matters. More wins while we've ve had too many draws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 6 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: Yeah, it does suggest that. Then again, Dundee have lost more goals than us and scored fewer, yet they're in the top 6, so it's not quite that simple. Fair point but I still believe there is a lot of room for improvement in the defence. Some of our defending this year has been brutal and teams didn't need to work hard to get goals off us. The amout of goals we lost from corners and set pieces was frankly laughable at times. Of course others are free to feel differently just how I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 12 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: Fair point but I still believe there is a lot of room for improvement in the defence. Some of our defending this year has been brutal and teams didn't need to work hard to get goals off us. The amout of goals we lost from corners and set pieces was frankly laughable at times. Of course others are free to feel differently just how I see it. Yeah, we definitely do need to improve defensively because as you said, that should be easier to achieve than scoring more than we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 10 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said: Fair point but I still believe there is a lot of room for improvement in the defence. Some of our defending this year has been brutal and teams didn't need to work hard to get goals off us. The amout of goals we lost from corners and set pieces was frankly laughable at times. Of course others are free to feel differently just how I see it. Agree with you @bobbybingo there's lots of room for defensive improvements. Not only to replace individual defenders , I'd add midfield is a big part of the problem. The amount of teams who simply cut through our midfield isn't good enough, coupled with the inability to prevent and win the balll coming into our box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 13 hours ago, bobbybingo said: We've currently lost 53 goals, the same number we lost last season. But we concede virtually every match and you get points from individual match results, not end of season totals. So far this season there have been 16 matches were we would have gained a point or points by keeping a clean sheet. That's a massive number of points over a season. In fact it's 31 points. Probably enough that if we'd done that in half the instances we'd be in Europe next term. If we don't tighten up at the back it will absolutely mean Bottom 6 again next season and it's quite clearly the main priority to be worked on during the summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said: But we concede virtually every match and you get points from individual match results, not end of season totals. So far this season there have been 16 matches were we would have gained a point or points by keeping a clean sheet. That's a massive number of points over a season. In fact it's 31 points. Probably enough that if we'd done that in half the instances we'd be in Europe next term. If we don't tighten up at the back it will absolutely mean Bottom 6 again next season and it's quite clearly the main priority to be worked on during the summer. I'm certainly not arguing with the problems losing those goals have caused us, or the need to tighten up at the back, but as Dundee have shown, success isn't just down to the amount of goals you concede or score. As you said, conceding in virtually every match has been our Achilles heel this season, but clean sheets guarantee nothing either - County, St Johnstone and Livi have all managed several more than us. Bottom line is, it's been a grey season for us. We could easily have won several more games, and just as easily have lost several more. I'm just glad we got enough bloody draws to keep us up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 22 hours ago, wellfan said: Because there's no point in offering critical analysis here after a positive result because it's generally met with bollocks like you've offered. I like a bit of critical analysis. Win, lose or draw, there are always things we have done well, and things we could have done better with. Highlighting both sides of a performance should be welcomed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 4 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: I like a bit of critical analysis. Win, lose or draw, there are always things we have done well, and things we could have done better with. Highlighting both sides of a performance should be welcomed. Yes, although I was referring to those who consistently refer to critical individuals who differ from the 'happy-clappy' views as 'doom-mongers'. It's tiresome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 6 minutes ago, wellfan said: Yes, although I was referring to those who consistently refer to critical individuals who differ from the 'happy-clappy' views as 'doom-mongers'. It's tiresome. Happy to be the Ying to your Yang! (Of course I would say that! 😉) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 14 minutes ago, wellfan said: Yes, although I was referring to those who consistently refer to critical individuals who differ from the 'happy-clappy' views as 'doom-mongers'. It's tiresome. In fairness, it tends to be the 'doom mongers' who refer to others as 'happy clappers'. Both terms get a bit tiresome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 6 hours ago, wellfan said: Yes, although I was referring to those who consistently refer to critical individuals who differ from the 'happy-clappy' views as 'doom-mongers'. It's tiresome. 5 hours ago, bobbybingo said: In fairness, it tends to be the 'doom mongers' who refer to others as 'happy clappers'. Both terms get a bit tiresome. Indeed, but a lot of these replies are to posts stating that so-in-so is shite, and the worst ever in a 'Well shirt. Over the course of this season, this accusation has been aimed at, Kelly, S O'D, Bevis, Spittal, Slattery, Paton and our entire strike force, to name but a few. And that doesn't start to cover comments on Kettlewell. As always, in football and in life, nothing is black and white and most of us (I suspect) realise that and, more importantly, accept these failings as part and parcel of being a 'Well fan. The constancy of those statements I, personally, find tiresome and occasionally irk me enough to comment. I'm lucky enough to have seen the likes of Bobby Graham, Willie P, Tommy Coyne, Davie Cooper, to name but a few. I've also seen some total haddies. No one in this team is likely to feature in an all time 'Well XI, I suspect that none of them would feature in an all time worst either. 😀 To summise, chill people. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderwell Posted May 11 Report Share Posted May 11 On 1/2/2024 at 7:47 PM, wellfan said: Kettlewell will be sacked. But you lads can keep fighting for him. Ahem. Mr Wellfan. I told you your pantwetting wouldn't come to fruition. Maybe sit up and pay attention. "Sanctimonious pricks" as referred to by you which the mods should have clamped down on. Takes one to know one. Enjoy the 5-1 victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwell Posted May 11 Report Share Posted May 11 The last two games prove that he’s the man for the job. Two teams fighting for their lives and we absolutely pumped them. Big rebuild but in ketts I trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 2 hours ago, Tamwell said: The last two games prove that he’s the man for the job. Two teams fighting for their lives and we absolutely pumped them. Big rebuild but in ketts I trust. I do as well. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsince75 Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 We will always have high/low points to a season. In terms of what he's been asked to do re league position I'd say he's delivered . To secure 7-9th with a lower budget is job done. Comes across as a good man manager, getting the most out of players. Would really like to see an improvement in recruitment. Some loanees have been very decent, could do landing some decent perm 1st team regulars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 9 hours ago, wunderwell said: Ahem. Mr Wellfan. I told you your pantwetting wouldn't come to fruition. Maybe sit up and pay attention. "Sanctimonious pricks" as referred to by you which the mods should have clamped down on. Takes one to know one. Enjoy the 5-1 victory. Congratulations on producing the most sanctimonious of all posts on this topic. I hope you've enjoyed the victory atop your massive ivory tower. I'm surprised you found the time to enjoy the result late last night while searching for a months-old post of mine written off the back of an appalling winless run on 2 January. Context is key, but petty irony is free. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 I've changed my view on him. During our horrendous run, I was all for parting ways, but he has turned things around and we'll now finish 9th at worst with the second lowest playing budget in the league. I think what did turn up the presure on him was the nature of our results. A more even distribution of results would not have seen the same fan reaction, as we saw during that shocking run. Last summer and and in January he had a fair bit of deadwood to offload, which he did fairly successfully and I expect that to continue in the coming weeks. So he'll have more financial leeway. There will be a lot of departuress and arrivals over the summer, and he'll have the chance to build his own squad and stamp his name on it. Lets hope he achieves a high success rate - all managers do have their transfer failures. I'm looking for him to strengthen the defence and defensive midfield, as a priority. I hate the term "Punching above our weight" and I don't think its unrealistic to aim for a top 6 place next term and a good cup run. We should be setting that as an achievable target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 Chat at the game was we've got 8 leaving and 8 coming in. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 There will be folk that will never like SK and those that can see him do no wrong. Me?.....I said before I would have punted him after Ross Co pumping in December but slowly and surely is starting to turn things round and learning from mistakes. Overthinks at times and definitely needs to recruit well in the summer but I am prepared to stick with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 12 Report Share Posted May 12 4 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: I hate the term "Punching abnove our weight" and I don't think its unrealistic to aim for a top 6 place next term and a good cup run. We should be setting that as an achievable target. Yeah. Top six and, more so, a good cup run should be the absolute minimum targets set each season for the manager. I'm sick and tired of the 10th spot less-than-mediocrity crap, as nothing will ever be achieved when the minimum targets are set so low. Some may call that unrealistic for whatever reason. However, given our 40-year presence in the top league, our likely budget, our stature and structure, aiming for anything less is just treading water and hoping for an annual miracle against the odds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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