Spiderpig Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 11 hours ago, wellsince75 said: Kettlewell has his flaws - as will any manager and any player who comes through our club. If he was the perfect manager he wouldn't be with us and wouldn't be in Scotland. The pro's come down to 1) his record he's won +40% of games over 70 games. That's very decent for MFC manager. 2)his workrate and valuing the overall coherence of a team. 3) doing the ugly side of the game well. 4) playing young talent and given them a chance 5)He moves on players who aren't to his taste. His flaws are 1) A large chunk of signings have proven to be pretty poor. 2) several signings aka Obika, Callaghan, Nicholson all with proven injury records. 3) lack of entertainment - other than youngsters there's not much to get you on your feet (same could be said for vast majority of SPL) Overall must be one of the better managers we've had. Very similar to Robinson's stats. Sensible well reasoned posts like that have no place on this forum. SK could win the treble for us, get us to the champions league groups and the usual SK haters on here would still be obsessed with getting rid of him, eat, sleep, rave about SK , repeat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 19 hours ago, santheman said: The thing is nobody knows what players Kettlewell tried to bring into the club at the start of the season. For all we know the players we signed could have been 2nd/3rd/4th choices. I would be more concerned if some of them were his 1st choice though as that would question his judgement or on the other hand could just as easily have reflected our budget constraints. As far as the style of play is concerned have a look through the forums of all the other teams in the SPL with the possible exception of Celtic and Aberdeen and the fans are all moaning about the same style of football and tactics we are. It's more down to the quality of the League which is getting worse with each passing season and it's now more about not wanting to lose rather than win a game. I've watched quite a few non Motherwell games this season and they've mostly been all been turgid shit with each team more interested in cancelling the other one out rather than trying to entertain the fans. If anyone knows of some attack minded free flowing football manager out there who would transform the way we play while keeping within budget and free from relegation then feel free to name him. Great post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 20 hours ago, David said: The fact that this discussion is even happening while we're sitting 5th with a four-point lead and a game in hand over the team in 6th spot, and fresh off a cup semi-final loss to Rangers is absolutely wild. The last manager to actually take us forward was Graham Alexander so maybe you shouldn't be that surprised. A lot of our fans are living in cloud cuckoo land and a lot of them use supporting the club as an excuse to target individuals. The analysis on here in a lot of cases comes down to faces fitting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 You'd have thought with everyone being so well informed about how shite Kettlewell, the players and our tactics are, that they'd have been able to prepare themselves for the result on Sunday and not get too upset, eh? I do hope that all of the ACLs and other ligaments that have been ripped apart by the knee jerks heal up well. For the record, Sunday was pish. It wasn't season and managerial career defining by any means. He fucked up and he'll hopefully learn from it moving forward. Fifth in the league on goal difference with a game in hand on fourth, four points clear of sixth with a game in hand and two games in hand over seventh, a cup semi-final and all with a team playing shite football without a striker who's scoring goals. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 4 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: and a team playing shite football without a striker who's scoring goals. The whole striker thing is amazing. We are living in the 21st century when football as a whole has moved away from strikers. It's a legitimate tactic now not to play with a traditional striker. If you even take a look around Europe at the highest level the best strikers are guys like Lewandowski and Kane who, football wise, are from a disappearing era. I know Motherwell isn't a town that is on the cutting edge of modern development but surely fans have noticed football isn't like the 1980s any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mio Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 He’s a Young hard working manager who has built a decent back room team, he’s not went down the old pals route and went for people he didn’t know but knew of their good reputation. A risky thing to do. improved players and made money out them (van veen) Bought Bair and made him Better and made us a million. He’s given young players a chance cementing their place in the first team and improving the clubs survival by inevitably selling these players on, ensuring the clubs financial footing. We are sitting in a healthy position in the league and did well in the cup getting to the semi. Ultimately failing but we weren’t too far off? Still have another cup ahead of us. i personally think he’s doing well as a manager (stats prove that) and would be really curious from the people who want him out as to who they would chose to do better? I asked this last year and we had Courts, Levein and Tommy wright mentioned. Looking at the 3 brought up to replace him I just think thank fk some of our fan base don’t chose managers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 1 minute ago, Ya Bezzer! said: The whole striker thing is amazing. We are living in the 21st century when football as a whole has moved away from strikers. It's a legitimate tactic now not to play with a traditional striker. If you even take a look around Europe at the highest level the best strikers are guys like Lewandowski and Kane who, football wise, are from a disappearing era. I know Motherwell isn't a town that is on the cutting edge of modern development but surely fans have noticed football isn't like the 1980s any more. Aye, absolutely. All about 'forwards' nowadays rather than the strikers, Haaland and the two you mention aside. Although the supporting cast around him are so good he can essentially just poach like Lineker did in the bygone era etc. I definitely have issues with Kettlewell's tactics but I do think he's hamstrung by the injuries we have currently. I know it's an excuse but it's glaringly obvious we're missing Paton's ability to carry the ball into the box (something I never thought I'd type, tbh) and Nicholson's creativity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 33 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: The whole striker thing is amazing. We are living in the 21st century when football as a whole has moved away from strikers. It's a legitimate tactic now not to play with a traditional striker. If you even take a look around Europe at the highest level the best strikers are guys like Lewandowski and Kane who, football wise, are from a disappearing era. I know Motherwell isn't a town that is on the cutting edge of modern development but surely fans have noticed football isn't like the 1980s any more. Who knew Craig Levein was such a visionary! 😆😆😆 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellon Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 4 hours ago, Spiderpig said: Sensible well reasoned posts like that have no place on this forum. SK could win the treble for us, get us to the champions league groups and the usual SK haters on here would still be obsessed with getting rid of him, eat, sleep, rave about SK , repeat. Most of the kettlewell haters were Robbo haters too and alexander, ga football was hard to watch and the sligo debacle annoyed me but the other two, by and large have been good for us Sunday was disappointing for sure, maybe we just don't have the players , considering all the injuries, to go toe to toe with Rangers ...look at Aberdeen v Celtic, God knows what Aberdeen's tactics were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 32 minutes ago, wellon said: look at Aberdeen v Celtic, God knows what Aberdeen's tactics were. Don't get beat 7-0. And they worked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said: The last manager to actually take us forward was Graham Alexander so maybe you shouldn't be that surprised. I guess it depends what you mean by moved us forward? I was all for his appointment in the beginning as he appeared to be a more "out of the box" choice than some of the usual suspects, but IMHO he took our football back to the dark ages. It was absolutely fine when he was winning games and he deserves a lot of credit for keeping us up in his first 6 months, but what followed after that was abysmal. He did turn it around, get us top 6 and into Europe (making it absolutely impossible for the board to fire him) but at what cost? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if I was going back now, I wouldnt hire him again. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan91 Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 Who's actually going to do a better job working within our budget? SK has his faults, as do we all - I personally think his substitutions on Sunday were wild and effectively gave Rangers the tie however if we are being brutally honest with ourselves we had no right to be in the semi final given what we spend on wages/players compared to practically any other club in our league, he got us there and for that you have to praise the guy. I think it's also abundantly clear and perfectly highlighted last season when we went on our long run without a win that he has full respect from the players and has yet to lose the dressing room, the same can't be said for his predecessors who lost the dressing room on a similar run to what we were on last year. Nice guy into the bargain, I think we have a decent gaffer at the helm all things considered. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 Well Fan 91 are u trying to say we should just give up trying to compete ? Btw nice guys win nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spit_It_Out Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 I don't mind Kettlewell but he is a master of his own downfall with some of the tactics he uses he seems to over think things alot of the time and I really don't understand why we bothered to fork out a shit ton of money on Stam to use him utterly appallingly. I am convinced we have a fantastic player in there but the way he is been used due to Kettlewells set ups is shocking but that also comes to not having someone creative in the midfield either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 18 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said: I don't mind Kettlewell but he is a master of his own downfall with some of the tactics he uses he seems to over think things alot of the time and I really don't understand why we bothered to fork out a shit ton of money on Stam to use him utterly appallingly. I am convinced we have a fantastic player in there but the way he is been used due to Kettlewells set ups is shocking but that also comes to not having someone creative in the midfield either. Been saying this past few weeks, I think stama is a player but not being used properly, I think with maswanhise they deserve a run of 4 to 5 games to see if it works......but not if all they get is hoofball 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 28 minutes ago, Yodo said: Well Fan 91 are u trying to say we should just give up trying to compete ? Btw nice guys win nothing I don't think that's what they're saying at all. It was our first semi-final in seven years and if you believe some of the pish spouted on here, it's with our worst ever manager, squad and tactics. I think Kettlewell got his tactics wrong on Sunday but we competed with Rangers for the majority of the game. The issue is the massive gulf in quality makes it difficult to maintain that competitiveness, without adding in shooting yourself in the foot by making ridiculous/baffling/poor substitutions. 5 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: Been saying this past few weeks, I think stama is a player but not being used properly, I think with maswanhise they deserve a run of 4 to 5 games to see if it works......but not if all they get is hoofball I said it on another thread somewhere that Stama scored goals with proper supporting play; he was either always in a pair with wingers in a 4-4-2/4-2-4, or in a 4-2-3-1. We don't have the players fit and available to play any of those systems (yet). The clear difference in those formations is that they provide real attacking width. Our wing backs don't provide that as often as I'd like but I think that will come. Kaleta is raw but has capabilities that I think are similar to Gent. Definitely an athlete and with the right coaching could become a real threat. Seddon has quality in his delivery and I think him and Wilson down the left could be a real pairing if given time to develop more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 1 hour ago, Yodo said: Well Fan 91 are u trying to say we should just give up trying to compete ? Btw nice guys win nothing No. He is saying that despite his faults, our manager might be better than you give him credit for. Re your second point. Thats just a poor trope. Peps a decent guy and Im pretty sure he has won a trophy or two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mio Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 3 hours ago, Yodo said: Well Fan 91 are u trying to say we should just give up trying to compete ? Btw nice guys win nothing 🤣 yeah, we should have stuck with jim gannon. He was a right c@nt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 Total tangent, some of the posts been bonkers since Sunday but not as bonkers as gig I was at tonight...They Might Be Giants at SWG3, as surreal as my jokes but brilliant at same time, one for the 1990 music fans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted November 5 Report Share Posted November 5 8 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: Total tangent, some of the posts been bonkers since Sunday but not as bonkers as gig I was at tonight...They Might Be Giants at SWG3, as surreal as my jokes but brilliant at same time, one for the 1990 music fans Build a Little Birdhouse in My Soul! 😍 Is that too happy clappy? 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted November 6 Report Share Posted November 6 That's Not to put too fine a point on it......🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witchfindergeneral Posted November 6 Report Share Posted November 6 Some of the takes on this thread are howling, spent the last day going through after getting back from Portugal. Kettlewell has his faults and is so frustrating at times but he's also doing well enough this season even with a couple of disappointing results, we've had a couple of better ones we expect nothing from. Transfers have been mostly fine but could have been better, is that down to him being shite, or him not being able to secure top targets? Maybe he's a better coach than a manager? That shows with his record in player development but some baffling tactical changes. But the players seem to fight for him and he seems to care enough about the club/fans. What more do folk want? We're not an attractive prospect for a Jimmy Thelin regen. Even the seasons we finished 2nd we lost double figures of league games and had bad cup results. When we were good back then, we still only got around 4-5K fans in the stands. A lot of users here just need to realise that's Scottish football, and we have our place in it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellon Posted November 6 Report Share Posted November 6 20 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: No. He is saying that despite his faults, our manager might be better than you give him credit for. Re your second point. Thats just a poor trope. Peps a decent guy and Im pretty sure he has won a trophy or two. Jurgen klopp seems a decent geezer too with great teeth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted November 6 Report Share Posted November 6 17 hours ago, grizzlyg said: That's Not to put too fine a point on it......🤣🤣🤣 Have u got a bee in your bunnet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 14 Report Share Posted November 14 The international break is upon us, and we're currently three places and six points better off than we were at this stage last season, as I recall, and we've made it to a cup semi-final. Admittedly, we're not top of the possession table, but you can't have everything. The best part? We haven't even seen all of our new signings in action, and those who were long-term injured haven't yet returned to full fitness. I'm cautiously optimistic for the rest of the season and rather glad we stuck by the manager last year when things looked a bit shaky at times. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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