Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[David]

10 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

We're sitting just 7 points off 11th place and Hearts are improving. Can't see us taking much off St Johnstone and Celtic.

Would it really be all that shocking if we managed to beat St Johnstone this weekend? How many times have we been written off, told we’re on the decline, and destined to come away with nothing, only to turn it around and notch up a few wins? The reality is, if you take Celtic, Rangers, and perhaps Aberdeen out of the equation, the rest of the teams could face each other ten times and likely split the wins evenly, five apiece.

As things stand, we’re sitting in the top six. That’s not speculation or me trying to predict what might happen—it’s simply the truth. We’ve won more matches than every team below us. Again, that’s a fact.

This is where we find ourselves at the moment.

Could we slip down the table and end up 11th? It’s possible, but the same could be said for most of the sides around us and below. If it comes to that, then it’s a conversation we’ll need to have.

 

[wellsince75]

33 minutes ago, David said:

I'm not sure there's anything to buy in that regard. Or even an argument. We are sitting 5th. That's just a fact. Only the teams above us have won more games this season.

David - suspect it’s more about where we’ll finish 

no debate we are 5th . 6 wins in early part of the season are key . 3 wins in last 14ish games don’t give confidence we’ll remain in this position. 
 

unless of course we get back to basics with good energy , work rate , get in the faces if the opposition. 

[David]

1 minute ago, wellsince75 said:

David - suspect it’s more about where we’ll finish

Nobody knows where we’ll end up, though. Let’s say we lose this weekend, and Hibs manage a win away at County. Suddenly, we’d drop from 5th to 6th. Would the manager be sacked for that? If so, I’d have some serious questions for the club. Chief among them would be: who’s taking over? I’d assume there’s someone better lined up, ready to step in and make an immediate difference? Because for a club like ours to sack the manager while sitting in the top six would be absolutely baffling. Given all the hand-wringing over a supposed “financial gap” during the summer, I’d also want to know the cost of letting the manager—and presumably his coaching staff—go mid-season.

Now, if we were down in 11th, fair enough, that’s a different conversation. But in the top six? Is that really where we’ve set the bar for managers at Motherwell? Have we reached the point where making it to a cup semi-final and being in the top half of the table doesn’t guarantee job security? If so, I’d seriously question the judgement of those making these decisions.

For me, it’s about keeping our heads above water, and seeing how things improve once our key injured players are back in the fold.

When the season’s over, by all means, let’s reflect on what worked and what didn’t. But making drastic changes mid-season? That should only ever be an absolute last resort.

[mfc88]

45 minutes ago, David said:

I'm not sure there's anything to buy in that regard. Or even an argument. We are sitting 5th. That's just a fact. Only the teams above us have won more games this season.

That's kind of taken out of context - my point is where are we headed? Well we have just played the team rooted to the bottom of the league in front of a massive away support and didn't lay a glove on them. We have no given right to win yesterday, but that was unacceptable and a repeating theme particularly away from home.

It doesn't matter where we are now if we're 11th come may. 

 

17 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Its the risk vs reward thing.

Its a much bigger risk sacking a manager sitting 5th, even if the form is patchy and football honking.

If we were producing the same and we were sitting where St Johnstone are you really have nothing to lose as you are going down anyway.

That and the injury situation are the main reasons Im sticking with him for now, but if nothing changes in the next few weeks and we get dragged back down into the pack, I maybe forced to re-evaluate.

Saturday is huge for the manager.

Can't disagree for the most part.

For the record, I'm not saying knee jerk sack. Relegation is an unlikely scenario just now, so it would be prudent to wait before any change when better/ more candidates are available. But questions are rightly being asked of the team and manager right now because of our repeated and currently failing approach to games.
 

[wellsince75]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Nobody knows where we’ll end up, though. Let’s say we lose this weekend, and Hibs manage a win away at County. Suddenly, we’d drop from 5th to 6th. Would the manager be sacked for that? If so, I’d have some serious questions for the club. Chief among them would be: who’s taking over? I’d assume there’s someone better lined up, ready to step in and make an immediate difference? Because for a club like ours to sack the manager while sitting in the top six would be absolutely baffling. Given all the hand-wringing over a supposed “financial gap” during the summer, I’d also want to know the cost of letting the manager—and presumably his coaching staff—go mid-season.

Now, if we were down in 11th, fair enough, that’s a different conversation. But in the top six? Is that really where we’ve set the bar for managers at Motherwell? Have we reached the point where making it to a cup semi-final and being in the top half of the table doesn’t guarantee job security? If so, I’d seriously question the judgement of those making these decisions.

For me, it’s about keeping our heads above water, and seeing how things improve once our key injured players are back in the fold.

When the season’s over, by all means, let’s reflect on what worked and what didn’t. But making drastic changes mid-season? That should only ever be an absolute last resort.

Thanks David . Personally I’m not looking to replace manager and can’t see us being worse than 9th - probably somewhere between 6-9th .

i don’t think sacking a mgr for 9th is sackable either . It’s not for me purely about points

For me SK needs to evolve and develop as a mgr .  In sep we beat st j 2:1 as we had 10+ shots and 6 on target - the energy we had has gone , and has been lacking for months .

sk needs to learn how to adapt and have more than 1 string to his bow . 

[David]

6 minutes ago, mfc88 said:

That's kind of taken out of context - my point is where are we headed? Well we have just played the team rooted to the bottom of the league in front of a massive away support and didn't lay a glove on them. We have no given right to win yesterday, but that was unacceptable and a repeating theme particularly away from home.

It doesn't matter where we are now if we're 11th come may. 

We'll find out where we are headed. It's on the manager and the players to start putting some points on the board. 

2 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Thanks David . Personally I’m not looking to replace manager and can’t see us being worse than 9th - probably somewhere between 6-9th .

i don’t think sacking a mgr for 9th is sackable either . It’s not for me purely about points

For me SK needs to evolve and develop as a mgr .  In sep we beat st j 2:1 as we had 10+ shots and 6 on target - the energy we had has gone , and has been lacking for months .

sk needs to learn how to adapt and have more than 1 string to his bow . 

To be fair, when we defeated St Johnstone in that match, we had our first-choice goalkeeper, our captain was still fit, Miller was available, and so was Robinson. At that time, we had plenty of options when it came to personnel. Of course, it’s the manager’s job to cope with injuries, but you can’t deny there will be a dip in quality when you lose players of that calibre.

[wellsince75]

6 minutes ago, David said:

To be fair, when we defeated St Johnstone in that match, we had our first-choice goalkeeper, our captain was still fit, Miller was available, and so was Robinson. At that time, we had plenty of options when it came to personnel. Of course, it’s the manager’s job to cope with injuries, but you can’t deny there will be a dip in quality when you lose players of that calibre.

of course it makes a difference.  From an attacking sense we certainly miss Miller, the boy is heads and shoulder above everyone.  Suspect we also miss Robinsons work rate , no other striker has put in that level of effort.

That said  I don't think it's all down to injuries though and  I fully accept we won't be brilliant every game.  I dislike our approach to football, even when we were winning it was rarely easy on the eye. 

We simply need to get back to looking like a team who work for one another and understand what role each player has.  We've lost that since October/early November. 

[joewarkfanclub]

43 minutes ago, mfc88 said:

That's kind of taken out of context - my point is where are we headed? Well we have just played the team rooted to the bottom of the league in front of a massive away support and didn't lay a glove on them. We have no given right to win yesterday, but that was unacceptable and a repeating theme particularly away from home.

It doesn't matter where we are now if we're 11th come may. 

 

Can't disagree for the most part.

For the record, I'm not saying knee jerk sack. Relegation is an unlikely scenario just now, so it would be prudent to wait before any change when better/ more candidates are available. But questions are rightly being asked of the team and manager right now because of our repeated and currently failing approach to games.
 

Agreed.

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, wellsince75 said:

For me SK needs to evolve and develop as a mgr

1 hour ago, wellsince75 said:

sk needs to learn how to adapt and have more than 1 string to his bow .

We’ve been saying these things since the bad run in late 2023. What more will it take for people to realise that perhaps he’s simply incapable of evolving, developing, and adapting?

[wellsince75]

14 minutes ago, wellfan said:

We’ve been saying these things since the bad run in late 2023. What more will it take for people to realise that perhaps he’s simply incapable of evolving, developing, and adapting?

You may be right @wellfan. 
 

what he has on his side is he’s managed to improve results . Points tally is still higher than last season so some progress made .

 run  since been early move has been horrendous.  I don’t see anything changing until the rest of the season unfolds 

[David]

What would we say are the KPIs set for the manager at the start of the season?

[wellgirl]

4 minutes ago, David said:

What would we say are the KPIs set for the manager at the start of the season?

I would say to avoid relegation and top six and a good cup run is a bonus. 

[grizzlyg]

7 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

It was awesome.

Fair took my mind off the fitba!

Hope gig was good,  king of wishful thinking was a classic.......ahhhhh........trail west? 😜😜

[wellgirl]

9 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Hope gig was good,  king of wishful thinking was a classic.......ahhhhh........trail west? 😜😜

That's go west pal 

[santheman]

4 hours ago, David said:

Would it really be all that shocking if we managed to beat St Johnstone this weekend? How many times have we been written off, told we’re on the decline, and destined to come away with nothing, only to turn it around and notch up a few wins? The reality is, if you take Celtic, Rangers, and perhaps Aberdeen out of the equation, the rest of the teams could face each other ten times and likely split the wins evenly, five apiece.

As things stand, we’re sitting in the top six. That’s not speculation or me trying to predict what might happen—it’s simply the truth. We’ve won more matches than every team below us. Again, that’s a fact.

This is where we find ourselves at the moment.

Could we slip down the table and end up 11th? It’s possible, but the same could be said for most of the sides around us and below. If it comes to that, then it’s a conversation we’ll need to have.

 

We're perfectly capable of getting a result.

Putting things into perspective and leaving aside our poor display, it's not as if St Johnstone ran over the top of us or created numerous chances so I fully expect another tight game on Saturday which could go either way. I certainly hope we at least compete better than we did yesterday.

There's nothing to be frightened off from St Johnstone that's for sure, we just need to be more up for it.

[wellgirl]

I think Kettlewell gets a disproportionate amount of stick than some other managers - and I think people should be able to express support for him - if they want to. It really should not be that polarised. I've seen people on social media calling him Kettlewell bell end. Get out of my club. Etc 

And I don't go to games to boo people either - I get why fans are upset but I think some fans have a weird hatred of him for no reason 

I never booed Alexander. I never booed Hammell even though I thought it was the wrong appointment. And I won't be booing Kettlewell either 

And you know what. I think some people like making digs at people who like Kettlewell - people shouldn't be ridiculed because they support him 

I like him - other people don't. And that should be enough. I'm not going to be called as someone who does not care about their club just because I don't want him sacked 

 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

There's nothing to be frightened off from St Johnstone that's for sure, we just need to be more up for it.

Whilst that will be critical to a good result, we'll also need to set up correctly and change our tactics. We have to be prepared to counter a high press.  More of the same won't do. Let's keep the ball on the ground even at corners. Up front  the strikers need to link up and play as a unit. Is SK capable of adapting his approach?

[grizzlyg]

29 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

That's go west pal 

I know....I was joking 🤪

[santheman]

19 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Whilst that will be critical to a good result, we'll also need to set up correctly and change our tactics. We have to be prepared to counter a high press.  More of the same won't do. Let's keep the ball on the ground even at corners. Up front  the strikers need to link up and play as a unit. Is SKcapable of adapting his approach?

That's the $64000 question.

We've certainly got the players capable of doing that, whether Mr Kettlewell takes the reigns off and let's them is another matter.

I just feel that confidence looked very low yesterday and we need a good performance and a win to give the team and fans a lift. Maybe a couple of new faces might provide the spark we need.

 

[David]

32 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Whilst that will be critical to a good result, we'll also need to set up correctly and change our tactics. We have to be prepared to counter a high press.  More of the same won't do. Let's keep the ball on the ground even at corners. Up front  the strikers need to link up and play as a unit. Is SKcapable of adapting his approach?

If it really is as simple as you make it sound, I wonder why the club don't just sack him and hire someone from this forum to do the job 😂

[wellgirl]

14 minutes ago, David said:

If it really is as simple as you make it sound, I wonder why the club don't just sack him and hire someone from this forum to do the job 😂

Innit. So many folk who think they could do his job. He's only an ex professional footballer and all - it's a wonder why they don't just ask anyone to manage Motherwell. Not pointing that at the poster you are responding to btw 

[Kmcalpin]

22 minutes ago, David said:

If it really is as simple as you make it sound, I wonder why the club don't just sack him and hire someone from this forum to do the job 😂

It's far from simple. However to date, SK has proved to be inflexible and slow to learn from his mistakes. 

[grizzlyg]

51 minutes ago, David said:

If it really is as simple as you make it sound, I wonder why the club don't just sack him and hire someone from this forum to do the job 😂

I think it is fair for folk to criticise Kettlewell.  It's all about opinions and while some folk can see so fault with him I think it's only right to criticise when it's deserved.   His style of football is terrible and he seems incapable of having a plan b.   And as I have said before,  I am someone who has defended him loads so it's not just a case of looking for any reason to want him punted.

Now is the time for him to step up and prove why he deserves to stay in the job.  A win this Saturday would. E a great start 

COYW

[wellgirl]

6 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I think it is fair for folk to criticise Kettlewell.  It's all about opinions and while some folk can see so fault with him I think it's only right to criticise when it's deserved.   His style of football is terrible and he seems incapable of having a plan b.   And as I have said before,  I am someone who has defended him loads so it's not just a case of looking for any reason to want him punted.

Now is the time for him to step up and prove why he deserves to stay in the job.  A win this Saturday would. E a great start 

COYW

It is completely OK for people to criticise him - but that criticism is completely over the top in some quarters - with people acting like they hate him - and in my view that's on them - it's not on Kettlewell. I think some people have personal issues with him - and I have no idea why. 

He's kept us in the spl for two seasons and I personally don't think he needs to be proving anything right now - are people howling for Robbos head or the head of McInnes the way some people are with Kettlewell? I think we have a very unforgiving support at times and that's fine - I just don't need to agree with it 

 

[grizzlyg]

1 minute ago, wellgirl said:

It is completely OK for people to criticise him - but that criticism is completely over the top in some quarters - with people acting like they hate him - and in my view that's on them - it's not on Kettlewell.

He's kept us in the spl for two seasons and I personally don't think he needs to be proving anything right now - are people howling for Robbos head or the head of McInnes the way some people are with Kettlewell? I think we have a very unforgiving support at times and that's fine - I just don't need to agree with it 

 

I don't hate Kettlewell. But he needs to turn things round. If he does I will be first on here apologising