Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[wellgirl]

17 minutes ago, star sail said:

It's not though. What we often forget is that there is a human being on the other end of this discussion, who is working really hard for the club and who has saved us from relegation in the last two seasons.

This thread was started very early in SK's tenure and has trundled on throughout his time at the helm. We are talking about a guy who has a career to build, a family to feed and who is an honest hard worker professional who has done well for this club. 

The appetite to sack managers is generally distasteful and it is really easy to be smart ( and often anonymous) on a football forum. I am not referencing you in this mfc88, just quoting your last sentence.

Sacking manager threads should surface in times when a team is in turmoil. This team is not in turmoil and yet their are fans hell bent on creating instability and a false sense of turmoil. It seems that this is now as much a part of the entertainment as the football itself. 

I think SK deserves a bit more respect. He has earned it.

I completely agree. There is a human being at the end of this and if folk think it's ok to sit and name call him - I'm not talking about criticising him - I'm talking about name calling - that's on them. It has nothing to do with Kettlewell. 

Does it make people feel better typing that he's a bell end? This is facebook stuff not on here but there are people who don't like the guy and want him out - do folk need to name call him to achieve that? 

[wellfan]

41 minutes ago, star sail said:

It's not though. What we often forget is that there is a human being on the other end of this discussion, who is working really hard for the club and who has saved us from relegation in the last two seasons.

This thread was started very early in SK's tenure and has trundled on throughout his time at the helm. We are talking about a guy who has a career to build, a family to feed and who is an honest hard worker professional who has done well for this club. 

The appetite to sack managers is generally distasteful and it is really easy to be smart ( and often anonymous) on a football forum. I am not referencing you in this mfc88, just quoting your last sentence.

Sacking manager threads should surface in times when a team is in turmoil. This team is not in turmoil and yet their are fans hell bent on creating instability and a false sense of turmoil. It seems that this is now as much a part of the entertainment as the football itself. 

I think SK deserves a bit more respect. He has earned it.

This forum is exactly the type of place for these discussions to be had by fans. The whole concept of sharing opinions and information on topics of shared interest is the very reason why such fora exist.

At the end of the day, this is a ‘fans’ forum, and nobody is forcing the manager or players to read our thoughts. This is not the open terracing where folk often shout unnecessary and viscous crap at people trying to do their jobs, which is a whole different story.

So, if robust and colourful debate on the suitability of Kettlewell as manager is too much for some, then that’s not the problem of the forum, it’s your problem. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

Ill go out on a limb tonight and bet neither Dundee or Dundee Utd will serve up the eye bleeding shite we do, because neither Goodwin or Docherty would be interested in playing the brutal tactics we employ. 

[star sail]

On 1/11/2025 at 5:36 PM, wellfan said:

Get him to fuck. 

Is this what you mean by colourful and robust. Each to their own.

I don't think I have a problem if all I am suggesting is that the manager of the team we support be treated with a little more respect, particularly when he has contributed significantly towards keeping us in the top division.

As you well know, social media is powerful, perhaps more powerful than the man shouting obscenities from the stand and it can create a tone, positive or negative, supportive or toxic, that can influence outcomes. Steelmen Online does not exist in a vacuum. 

[wellfan]

11 minutes ago, star sail said:

Is this what you mean by colourful and robust. Each to their own.

It’s exactly what I mean. I’ve also called him a donkey on here on several occasions and described him as having the tactical nous of a cabbage or something similar.

On the topic of respect, I’m sure Kettlewell has said worse things to some referees lately, hence him receiving several yellow and red cards. 

[wellgirl]

23 minutes ago, star sail said:

Is this what you mean by colourful and robust. Each to their own.

I don't think I have a problem if all I am suggesting is that the manager of the team we support be treated with a little more respect, particularly when he has contributed significantly towards keeping us in the top division.

As you well know, social media is powerful, perhaps more powerful than the man shouting obscenities from the stand and it can create a tone, positive or negative, supportive or toxic, that can influence outcomes. Steelmen Online does not exist in a vacuum. 

It doesn't. I don't see the point of of the constant shouting for him to go -or name calling him - that's not discussion or debate on any level. Where's the "debate" when people are sitting typing names at him? 

[stv]

8 hours ago, santheman said:

A bit off tangent but in a similar vein, did St Johnstone fans not hold a demonstration outside the main stand at their last home game (although that might have been against the board and not the manager).

Hearts held a similar demonstration I'm sure as well as the recent walk out by the Rangers mob.

If fans aren't moaning about what's happening on the field then they're moaning about what's happening off it.

 

That's what happens when football is overpriced ,when fans that go to games get overlooked for tv deals  , var is introduced wasting fans match day experience and when fans feel they have been overlooked. It leaves folk disgruntled in general Paying over the odds for something we are not getting and being over looked. Fans now want instant success 🙌  if it's not forth comming protest.

[joewarkfanclub]

4 hours ago, star sail said:

It's not though. What we often forget is that there is a human being on the other end of this discussion, who is working really hard for the club and who has saved us from relegation in the last two seasons.

This thread was started very early in SK's tenure and has trundled on throughout his time at the helm. We are talking about a guy who has a career to build, a family to feed and who is an honest hard worker professional who has done well for this club. 

The appetite to sack managers is generally distasteful and it is really easy to be smart ( and often anonymous) on a football forum. I am not referencing you in this mfc88, just quoting your last sentence.

Sacking manager threads should surface in times when a team is in turmoil. This team is not in turmoil and yet there are fans hell bent on creating instability and a false sense of turmoil. It seems that this is now as much a part of the entertainment as the football itself. 

I think SK deserves a bit more respect. He has earned it.

I normally enjoy your posts as they are always thoughtful and well reasoned, but I think you are off the mark with this one.

The manager and the team may or may not be in turmoil, I would say thats quite a subjective assessment. But things in the garden are certainly not rosy.

We have a squad with 9 injured players, several of them long term, a situation which has been pretty much ever present since the start of the season.

The team is misfiring badly and is struggling to create any meaningful chances, far less score consistently. We cant keep a clean sheet.

We have a manager who is wedded to a system he doesnt have the players to implement and shows no sign of changing it.

The style of football has been terrible for large parts of the season and we just got knocked out of the cup by the worst team in the league without so much as a whimper.

Ive defended SK on here for the most part as there has been plenty of mitigation for performances and the circumstances he has had to face.

We ARE still in a reasonably healthy position in the league, and until that changes he does deserve the opportunity to turn things around. But lets not pretend its a conversation that shouldnt be happening, because its getting talked about plenty in the stands and in the pubs.

Thats not to say the discourse surrounding the subject cant be more respectful. But we shouldnt be comparing this place to Twitter or Facebook. 

[fizoxy]

SK is approaching where managers go past their sell by date at a club like ours. We saw it with managers that we look back relatively kindly on, such as McCall and Robinson, and even mclean. 

You do well, but either get picked off by a bigger club (how fucking dare you), or you stay long enough to run out of luck/funds to take it any further, and you either quit or get sacked. The number of injuries and player sales/leaving under SK during his tenure seems to have him speed running towards this, 

In addition, at clubs where winning something or signing big names isn't likely, changing the manager is pretty much the only interesting thing that can happen. As such, that's where most folk are going to go when things aren't great.

There's little interest in a manager building something over a number of years, or just maintaining a level of stability, because that's fucking boring. Despite "10th and a cup run" being the mantra of many a 'Well fan, the reality is that's just not acceptable by a large portion of our fanbase.  A cup run is dismissed if we don't win it, and by its nature, 10th is flirting with relegation, and involves losing more games than you win, which is unforgivable. Now, we could finish mid table, but that has to come with entertaining football, which no one can define. 

FWIW, I don't believe Simo did anything to out-think SK, they just played the way they have been under him, as he is also a one trick pony, fortunately for him his trick worked against us.

[mfc88]

17 hours ago, star sail said:

It's not though. What we often forget is that there is a human being on the other end of this discussion, who is working really hard for the club and who has saved us from relegation in the last two seasons.

This thread was started very early in SK's tenure and has trundled on throughout his time at the helm. We are talking about a guy who has a career to build, a family to feed and who is an honest hard worker professional who has done well for this club. 

The appetite to sack managers is generally distasteful and it is really easy to be smart ( and often anonymous) on a football forum. I am not referencing you in this mfc88, just quoting your last sentence.

Sacking manager threads should surface in times when a team is in turmoil. This team is not in turmoil and yet there are fans hell bent on creating instability and a false sense of turmoil. It seems that this is now as much a part of the entertainment as the football itself. 

I think SK deserves a bit more respect. He has earned it.

It was just a throwaway statement to end my post tbh.

I get your point but football management is a volatile career in the public eye, and going to be open to scrutiny. SK knows that. I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss the team or manager constructively from a fans perspective on here, as long as its in the right manner. I note a few posters mentioning overly aggressive words directed at him on social media - I tend not to pay attention to that, but 100% that is not on.

For the record, I don't want to come across as disrespectful towards SK, and I've acknowledged the positives of his reign in previous posts. 

[dennyc]

22 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Fair point but I think most fans are not so much concerned about our position or what we have achieved but rather they are looking at the rest of the season ahead and are rightly worried about where we are going to end up. We need the club/manager to be proactive and change things for the better now. Don’t wait till we are deep in trouble and then make changes. Those changes could be tactics, attitude, formation, team selection or whatever. SK is the guy getting paid to figure out the best changes. 

Spot on. Sums up my feelings exactly. Current performance is the worry. 
Focusing on an early season SF and our current league position would be a lot more meaningful if the current signs were also positive. But they are far from positive. It speaks volumes that many fans who were fully supportive of SK throughout last season’s bad run, myself included, are now expressing serious doubts. It is not just those that took an irrational immediate dislike to him that are voicing their concerns on here and at games. 
Saturday is huge. Result aside, SK and the players need to show that they have it within them to get back on track. Give us something to believe in. Please! 
 

 

[star sail]

20 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

I normally enjoy your posts as they are always thoughtful and well reasoned, but I think you are off the mark with this one.

The manager and the team may or may not be in turmoil, I would say thats quite a subjective assessment. But things in the garden are certainly not rosy.

We have a squad with 9 injured players, several of them long term, a situation which has been pretty much ever present since the start of the season.

The team is misfiring badly and is struggling to create any meaningful chances, far less score consistently. We cant keep a clean sheet.

We have a manager who is wedded to a system he doesnt have the players to implement and shows no sign of changing it.

The style of football has been terrible for large parts of the season and we just got knocked out of the cup by the worst team in the league without so much as a whimper.

Ive defended SK on here for the most part as there has been plenty of mitigation for performances and the circumstances he has had to face.

We ARE still in a reasonably healthy position in the league, and until that changes he does deserve the opportunity to turn things around. But lets not pretend its a conversation that shouldnt be happening, because its getting talked about plenty in the stands and in the pubs.

Thats not to say the discourse surrounding the subject cant be more respectful. But we shouldnt be comparing this place to Twitter or Facebook. 

Thank you for the first comment.

I maybe did not make myself very clear with my comment. It was in response to the very last line of mfc88's post when he said words to the effect that all debate was good. 

I don't have any issue with there being a discussion about the managers performance or the teams performance. That is what this forum is for. There is no doubt that there is problems to address and the style of football can be questioned. I was really disbondent driving home on Saturday night.

The concern I have is the emotive language that is often used and the over willingness to start and resurrect these threads at the first available opportunity.

The clamour to get managers sacked has become an ugly reality of modern day football. I don't think Tommy McLean would have made it to the Scottish Cup Final if he managed in modern times. I watched some howling performances from his teams in the time leading up to the heady days of 91.

SK has been a good servant to the club. Quotes like 'get him to fuck' and adjectives like imposter and wage thief are personal in nature and grossly unfair for a man that will be putting in a harder days graft than most on this forum.

I don't read twitter and other social media platforms but it must be pretty bad if it is notably worse than some of the comments on here.

Strangely I feel that the situation this time may be a little more serious than the 15 game winless run but I think this has much to do with a modern culture where tolerance for managers generally lasts about 18-24 months before fans start looking for the new Messiah.

I would like to see Kettlewell get time to have a fully fit Slattery, Miller and Nicolson in his team. If performances don't improve then, it may be time to thank him for his service and look elsewhere.

I accept that I am now in a minority but I still believe that he has earned the time to try and fix things.

 

[star sail]

7 hours ago, mfc88 said:

It was just a throwaway statement to end my post tbh.

I get your point but football management is a volatile career in the public eye, and going to be open to scrutiny. SK knows that. I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss the team or manager constructively from a fans perspective on here, as long as its in the right manner. I note a few posters mentioning overly aggressive words directed at him on social media - I tend not to pay attention to that, but 100% that is not on.

For the record, I don't want to come across as disrespectful towards SK, and I've acknowledged the positives of his reign in previous posts. 

Yes, it was maybe a little unfair to quote your post to make my point. It was just the comment at the end I was referencing. Everything else you said seemed very reasonable. Apologies.

[Throughthelaces]

I'll chip in here I've never liked Kettlewell brand of football since we lost the squad he had when he took over from Hammell I don't think we've ever hit the heights we did there or approached anything close to it. I'm not going to name call him I do think our issues are a bit more complex than just the manager but the brand of football we play is unacceptable. And If Kettlewell won't change it then he has to go as its that bad. I'm sorry but it is. we are so boring and dull and I would like to see stats on goals from open play as we must be one of the worst for that.

My wish for motherwell is we start from a base of being hard to beat and play some decent football doesn't need to be tiki taka but we should be able to play a pass here and there that splits a defence or can tackle in midfield and defend at the back.

We should ALWAYS have 11 Nasty buggers on the pitch with 1 or 2 young players in amongst to develop and sell for a fee. That should be our model yes we need squad players but at minimum they should be able to play when called upon football is a squad game at the end of the day.

this we struggled due to missing x numbers of regular starters is BS everyone at the club should be raring to play and at this point of the season know the system they're expected to play.

If Kettlewell can't do the above which I think is what can reasonably be expected from motherwell then he can't hang around talking about we signed guys who's values line up with our philosophy we're a football club not a social work. I mean this in the nicest possible way the only thing I care about from our players Is what they do on the pitch not that they're lovely blokes off it.

 

[wunderwell]

The problem that I see is akin to when Stephen Robinson (who is well regarded) left.

It was clear to see on his final game that he had ran out of ideas on how to fix things.
His rebirth at St Mirren stands him in good stead but he could be in danger there of a similar scenario.

Kettlewell I think should be held in a similar regard, albeit not two cup finals.
The danger yet again though is there is a time when things potentially fizzle out

[joewarkfanclub]

13 hours ago, star sail said:

Thank you for the first comment.

I maybe did not make myself very clear with my comment. It was in response to the very last line of mfc88's post when he said words to the effect that all debate was good. 

I don't have any issue with there being a discussion about the managers performance or the teams performance. That is what this forum is for. There is no doubt that there is problems to address and the style of football can be questioned. I was really disbondent driving home on Saturday night.

The concern I have is the emotive language that is often used and the over willingness to start and resurrect these threads at the first available opportunity.

The clamour to get managers sacked has become an ugly reality of modern day football. I don't think Tommy McLean would have made it to the Scottish Cup Final if he managed in modern times. I watched some howling performances from his teams in the time leading up to the heady days of 91.

SK has been a good servant to the club. Quotes like 'get him to fuck' and adjectives like imposter and wage thief are personal in nature and grossly unfair for a man that will be putting in a harder days graft than most on this forum.

I don't read twitter and other social media platforms but it must be pretty bad if it is notably worse than some of the comments on here.

Strangely I feel that the situation this time may be a little more serious than the 15 game winless run but I think this has much to do with a modern culture where tolerance for managers generally lasts about 18-24 months before fans start looking for the new Messiah.

I would like to see Kettlewell get time to have a fully fit Slattery, Miller and Nicolson in his team. If performances don't improve then, it may be time to thank him for his service and look elsewhere.

I accept that I am now in a minority but I still believe that he has earned the time to try and fix things.

 

Thanks for the clarification, and I dont disagree with most if it.

Modern life in general is far less tolerant than it used to be. Society has been groomed to want the next best thing now and that you dont necessarily have to wait or work hard for it.

No doubt Wee Tommy would have found it tough in the current circumstances.

I dont think you are in the minority though wanting SK to get it right and turn things around. Ive been beating the Slattery, Nicholson, Paton, Miller drum for a while.

I (and a number of our other more patient posters) just think time is running out and the manager needs to show a realisation that there are more ways to win a game of football than the one currently being employed.

He needs to buy himself time until his favoured midfield / set up is fit and available to play.

Saturday is a must win. Any way possible. I dont care how ugly it is or what tactics require to be employed. But we need to give ourselves some breathing space again.

That said, the same passive long ball tactics which have been failing, would be unacceptable.

[Throughthelaces]

40 minutes ago, wunderwell said:

The problem that I see is akin to when Stephen Robinson (who is well regarded) left.

It was clear to see on his final game that he had ran out of ideas on how to fix things.
His rebirth at St Mirren stands him in good stead but he could be in danger there of a similar scenario.

Kettlewell I think should be held in a similar regard, albeit not two cup finals.
The danger yet again though is there is a time when things potentially fizzle out

I'd disagree I think Robinson is twice the manager Kettlewell is and I'd actually regard Robinson as our best manager in my lifetime (I'm 28) I think for the situation he took us over from to what he did I always felt we were heading in the right direction he has his flaws but was overall a great manager 

[joewarkfanclub]

6 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

I'd disagree I think Robinson is twice the manager Kettlewell is and I'd actually regard Robinson as our best manager in my lifetime (I'm 28) I think for the situation he took us over from to what he did I always felt we were heading in the right direction he has his flaws but was overall a great manager 

I would say Robinson and Kettlewell are similar in a lot of respects.

The main difference is that when Robinson finally realised his preferred way of playing wasnt working, he did change it up and did something different. Obviously that also went tits up in the end.

SK still has time to show he can re-invent himself and this team, but he needs to do it soon before he totally loses the support, or the booing will only get louder.

[wellgirl]

9 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

I'd disagree I think Robinson is twice the manager Kettlewell is and I'd actually regard Robinson as our best manager in my lifetime (I'm 28) I think for the situation he took us over from to what he did I always felt we were heading in the right direction he has his flaws but was overall a great manager 

I don't agree re Robinson being twice the manager Kettlewell is. He left for a reason - we were tenth in the table when he went. 

[Throughthelaces]

I think the time in the middle like under Robinson I generally felt we played better football than we've ever played under Kettlewell. I think the league finishes Robinson achieved over his 3 full seasons we won more points and finished higher okay we were 10th when he left but that was the covid season and I would also include he got us our best run of results in Europe that season in a long time which Kettlewell looks as though we'll be what Hamilton were when they were here if we persist. The Kettlewell system has looked suspect for so long and he's failed to change it. 

[joewarkfanclub]

13 minutes ago, Throughthelaces said:

I think the time in the middle like under Robinson I generally felt we played better football than we've ever played under Kettlewell. I think the league finishes Robinson achieved over his 3 full seasons we won more points and finished higher okay we were 10th when he left but that was the covid season and I would also include he got us our best run of results in Europe that season in a long time which Kettlewell looks as though we'll be what Hamilton were when they were here if we persist. The Kettlewell system has looked suspect for so long and he's failed to change it. 

We played some good stuff when he immediately took over and some of the football we played last year with Spittal, Miller, Paton and Slattery/Nicholson was excellent. So it hasnt all been awful to watch.

This season has been a different matter, with the odd exception here and there, its been pretty ugly.

Robinsons Thunderdome team wasnt the prettiest, but it was still exciting.

Thats the difference hear. Its ugly AND boring. We are also way too passive. 

[Throughthelaces]

11 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

We played some good stuff when he immediately took over and some of the football we played last year with Spittal, Miller, Paton and Slattery/Nicholson was excellent. So it hasnt all been awful to watch.

This season has been a different matter, with the odd exception here and there, its been pretty ugly.

Robinsons Thunderdome team wasnt the prettiest, but it was still exciting.

Thats the difference hear. Its ugly AND boring. We are also way too passive. 

I think we had some games last season where we were a great watch livi at home in December springs to mind also rangers away. but we also had that 18 game spell of not winning a game. Like the revisionist history is we were unlucky not to catch top 6 but the facts are when you go that many games not winning in a row you're not gonna catch it and don't deserve to either. 

 

I'll be honest the goodwill on my end for the guys gone. I've endured about as much of him as I can take from a footballing perspective its gonna take more than a win on Saturday to get me off the Kettlewell out bandwagon. 

 

I genuinh am just not a fan of the football we've played since the end of the first spell he had a couple years ago.

[mfc88]

16 hours ago, star sail said:

Yes, it was maybe a little unfair to quote your post to make my point. It was just the comment at the end I was referencing. Everything else you said seemed very reasonable. Apologies.

Na no worries at all mate, no need for apologies 👍 

[Mad Dog]

On 1/20/2025 at 7:39 PM, wellfan said:

So, if robust and colourful debate on the suitability of Kettlewell as manager is too much for some, then that’s not the problem of the forum, it’s your problem. 

Name-calling is not the same thing as debating, not by a long stretch.

[Mad Dog]

On 1/20/2025 at 8:35 PM, wellfan said:

On the topic of respect, I’m sure Kettlewell has said worse things to some referees lately, hence him receiving several yellow and red cards. 

I'm very much on the rugby side of showing respect to referees, so I dislike SK's recent antics. However, are you suggesting that he has been shouting insults at the referees? I'm hundreds of miles away from Fir Park so could not hear what was said but I would suggest that it was along the lines of "that's a free-kick, sir", "there's a head injury", "how's that a yellow card?", etc. Perhaps with a few f*****gs thrown into the mix. I very much doubt that he was calling the referees c**ts and threatening to petrol bomb their houses.