Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[Welly Machine]

16 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Him criticising fans though wasn't going to lead to the entire support turning their back on him surely - because there are sections of our fans who have had nothing good to say about him since the day he was appointed - fans can criticise him but he can say nothing back?. 

I think thats a bit odd. Particularly because he gave that interview after a section of our fans were shouting abuse at him after the cup game 

I also think there are too many sweeping generalisations about him losing the fans and fans turning their back on him - the Motherwell fc facebook page tonight is full of people saying sorry he's gone - so clearly the entire support wasn't against him 

Edited to say I'm talking in general 

No I was more meaning specifically with fans that had already turned. 

Personally I would have preferred he carried on until the summer and then reviewed wherever that took us. 

Not much the window left, signings already made and probably 9 points or so from safety.

You are right though. Tommy McLean, the only manager I have seen us win anything with, had people that just never took to him.

[wellgirl]

Just now, Welly Machine said:

No I was more meaning specifically with fans that had already turned. 

Personally I would have preferred he carried on until the summer and then reviewed wherever that took us. 

Not much the window left, signings already made and probably 9 points or so from safety.

You are right though. Tommy McLean, the only manager I have seen us win anything with, had people that just never took to him.

I agree. I would have liked to see him given till the summer too 

Im really sorry that it's ended like this 

[weeyin]

One thing SK twigged shortly after he was installed was exactly what van Veen needed to be productive.

If he didn't do anything else, getting a record breaking season from him (and a sweet transfer fee) was a decent return.

Theo Bair was an added bonus.

Pity he couldn't figure out our defence with the same results.

[Kmcalpin]

4 hours ago, MJC said:

But of course you will never hear the media rounding on them like this and you can guarantee that had Kettlewell been Aberdeen manager and left blaming the fans then the way it would have been reported would have been very differently, especially from BBC Scotland.

We are a much easier target however. 

100% on the nail.

I'm not saying that the press statement put out by the club should have ignored the "abuse" issue but I think it was inadvisable to focus so heavily on it. Very few other clubs would have done so. the way in which it was writtten gives the impression that our fans are worse than those of other clubs. They're not. Yes, we have an undesirable element but which club doesn't? 

[stv]

53 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

There's no evidence that Stuart Kettlewell abused officials - people who sat near him said otherwise - people can slate him for many things but let's not make things up as we go along -and there are plenty people who are sorry he's gone - the Motherwell facebook page is full of people saying they are sorry. 

Aye but the ground will be full of people on Sunday who will say thank fuk he's gone sooner rather than later. Anyway SK won’t see the facebook crap as he doesn’t do social media, apparently 

[wellgirl]

6 minutes ago, stv said:

Aye but the ground will be full of people on Sunday who will say thank fuk he's gone sooner rather than later. Anyway SK won’t see the facebook crap as he doesn’t do social media, apparently 

Maybe - but I think the narrative has been lately that he's lost the entire fan base - that's clearly not the case 

[Kmcalpin]

I can't say I was surprised to hear that SK has resigned. The signs have been there for some weeks now that he's been under pressure. He's been in trouble several times with officialdom. I don't know exactly what he said or how he said it but would be surprised if he merely said in a quiet voice  "I think you've got it wrong ref".  He criticised the fans in public and thats a definite no no - not much was made of that in the BBC or media. He then threw the players under a bus in public and thats never a good sign.  Then we have rumours of a bust up in the dressing room and the players doing a passable impression of the walking dead in the Perth games. Now you can dismiss any one of these factors on their own as being something and nothing but not when taken together.  Had he lost the fanbase? Not totally, but on the admittedly crude basis of an online survey I'd say somewhere between 70 and 80% of them.

As said by a few others, I suspect there are other reasons for his departure and there's more than meets the eye to this.  Thats not to dismiss the personal abuse issue though. 

I think the club could have handled it better as it seems to have to have allowed him free rein to say whatever he wanted in public.  Very few other clubs would have allowed that degree of freedom. That said, perhaps there was more to the glowing reference that meets the eye.

Anyway on a personal level, good luck to Stuart Kettlewell. A decent hard working pro.

[stv]

Just read the club statement pretty poorly worded i think, painting the support in general as bad uns . Not what i would expect from high paid officials with clubs interest at heart ,running down the support is the wrong vibe . Should have left it to Kettlewell himself to do that once he had left if he wanted to.

[Kmcalpin]

6 minutes ago, stv said:

Just read the club statement pretty poorly worded i think, painting the support in general as bad uns . Not what i would expect from high paid officials with clubs interest at heart ,running down the support is the wrong vibe . Should have left it to Kettlewell himself to do that once he had left if he wanted to.

Very much so. Its disappointing considering we're a fan owned club as well. A short statement condemning abuse from a small section of fans was all that was required, if absolutely neccessary. Who needs enemies when you have friends like this? Most clubs would have used an NDA in this situation.

[wellgirl]

Just now, Kmcalpin said:

Very much so. Its disappointing considering we're a fan owned club as well.

The well society seem to be backing the statement given the email they sent out tonight. Although I get they are just trying to say that abuse of any form isn't on 

[Chanzeypopz]

Not sure how i feel about Kettlewell stepping down, Obviously i want my club to do well and have better results but was our last few run of results completely his fault? He did pull us through some bad times and was very passionate about the club.

Takes alot to step down as a manager tbh, Maybe it wasent just from the abuse but perhaps he didnt see things geting any better and didnt want things to end up going the same way when Hammell eventually got sacked. Where ever he goes next i hope it works out for him and wish him all the best. 💛👏

[stv]

6 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Very much so. Its disappointing considering we're a fan owned club as well. A short statement condemning abuse from a small section of fans was all that was required, if absolutely neccessary. Who needs enemies when you have friends like this? Most clubs would have used an NDA in this situation.

Personally I didn’t think there was any need to mention it at all . Short and sweet…… thanks for your services , here’s what you achieved at the club , best wishes for future , bye. Why would they issue a statement that portrays the club support in a bad light even in the slightest  iv no idea. The press will have a field day with this .

[weeyin]

3 minutes ago, stv said:

Personally I didn’t think there was any need to mention it at all . Short and sweet…… thanks for your services , here’s what you achieved at the club , best wishes for future , bye. Why would they issue a statement that portrays the club support in a bad light even in the slightest  iv no idea. The press will have a field day with this .

In the modern game the press will likely have received the details in a release from SK's agent, so unlikely we could hide it.

Plus you know SK will be giving hour long lectures on it any time he is asked what time it is.

I don't doubt there is some truth to it. I also don't doubt there is some truth to the fact he was running out of ideas. So by going this route SK is doing a bit of "personal brand" protection, to use horrible marketing speak, and the club avoids accusations of hysterical "hiding the truth behind SK's departure!!!” headlines. 

 

[mfc]

5 minutes ago, stv said:

Personally I didn’t think there was any need to mention it at all . Short and sweet…… thanks for your services , here’s what you achieved at the club , best wishes for future , bye. Why would they issue a statement that portrays the club support in a bad light even in the slightest  iv no idea. The press will have a field day with this .

That bill leckie from the sun isn't half putting the boot into us,disturbing and disgusting was the words mentioned.im in agreement I think the club should have worded it differently,it's definitely added fuel to the fire.

[weeyin]

18 minutes ago, mfc said:

That bill leckie from the sun isn't half putting the boot into us,disturbing and disgusting was the words mentioned.im in agreement I think the club should have worded it differently,it's definitely added fuel to the fire.

Where do you see "disturbing" or "disgusting" mentioned on the official site's statement?

The Sun, on the other hand, has a long track record of dishing out disturbing and disgusting personal abuse for profit. 

See "anything they wrote about Hillsborough" and take it from there.

[Yabba's Turd]

Bill Leckie, the man who wrote a piece on banning weapons in the USA like a clueless 8 yr old?
I'm a better journalist

[robsterwood]

I also think it was poor to mention abuse from support at all. Motherwell have great loyal fan base and with all clubs there is minority that are trouble makers but no need to tarnish the great Motherwell name. Surely they could rise above that and letting the minority trolls win. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

3 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Not sure I agree with this...Robinsons blood and thunder style of play with Moult, Bowman, Hartley, Aldred etc was far easier to watch than the passive, stand off-ish, 30% possession at McDiarmid park daftness that's been served up recently. 

 

Not that I want Robinson back, nor think he would come back either

Correct , I never felt like going home after 15 mins of every game when SR was manager. had his faults but no way was it as brutal and as utterly boring as its been under SK.

[fizoxy]

I guess it depends on what was said and when. If SK has thrown away a top division management job for it, it obviously bothered him. I'm sure there could be other factors involved, but defending our support unconditionally is as bad as those sticking the boot in in the press.

If the club didn't state the reason, and SK stated it in the press instead, it looks like a cover up from us. It is also clear that the club didn't want him to go (whether folk like that or not) so they'll be just as pissed as Kettlewell is. 

More might come out over the next few days, but in the meantime the only person who knows what has gone on is SK, and maybe some club officials. 

[FirParkCornerExile]

3 hours ago, smiddy said:

Manager critcises fans for abuse

manager abuses refferees / 4th officials

personal abuse from fans in not accceptable

but come to feck stuart you have been working your ticket since you slated the fans  youv managed to get out while your stock is slightly high

but youv seen the mess we are in and only heading in one direction

if SF sets up on a totally differant formation in the next 3 games that we might suspect there was a differance in opinions beetween manager and assisant

time will tell but i personally think SK has pulled a stroke on his timing of this and his BBC radio scotland pals will rally round him , except craggs who has been highly critical of the way we play and the stats of posecion and shots on goal

Any way onwards n upwards and dont let the door hit your arse on the way out stuarty boy am sure you will pop up elsewhere talking about 5 th place ,semi final , theo, blah blah

 But you wont talk about how bad weve been for weeks , tumbolla team selections, sq pegs in round holes, etc

you will spin it all out bout your good times , but dont forget, YOU turned the fans against you       
                NEXT PLEASE 👍

Steven Craigan is the only one in the " Media Gang" who has actually taken time to look beyond the banal, lazy shite journalism of 

"they are 5th, been in a semi final, what do Motherwell fans expect"

You could tell all season that he's basically seen us for what we are, thought we are shite and couldnt see what were were trying to do tactically,  without actually saying we are rank rotten.

 

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

2 hours ago, smiddy said:

Time will tell about SKs reasons to leave . As he likes to talk 

 But one thing for sure, all the teams below us will be delighted we are in turmoil as it plays right into there hands

as some one on here said earlier 

2/3 wins and we will be safe  but was that not what the hibs fans said under butcher ???

aye but Hibs stuck with Terry Butcher until he took them down and frankly I think there is a pretty good chance we could hit the play off spot in 3/4 weeks if SK stayed , we may still do but just imagine if we get a new manager bounce the season could end very well. Time will tell. 

[El Grew]

46 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Steven Craigan is the only one in the " Media Gang" who has actually taken time to look beyond the banal, lazy shite journalism of 

"they are 5th, been in a semi final, what do Motherwell fans expect"

You could tell all season that he's basically seen us for what we are, thought we are shite and couldnt see what were were trying to do tactically,  without actually saying we are rank rotten.

Spot on. As far as I can tell he’s the only one that’s taken the time to look behind the curtain and set out the statistics that demonstrate how poorly we are actually performing.

[stv]

No-one even the players liked my tactics, iv fell out with the fans also the players are now doubting me and I've ran out of ideas or i was getting a bit of abuse it was affecting my family im quitting while im still ahead. What would you choose.
Bit like his pressers smoke n mirrors

[Yorkyred]

5 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Correct , I never felt like going home after 15 mins of every game when SR was manager. had his faults but no way was it as brutal and as utterly boring as it’s been under SK.

It's pretty obvious ST would never come back after some of the abuse he took and why should he. However no one is going to convince me that anything I’ve seen since he left has approached being up to the standards he set. Given the budget he had we had players that worked damn hard for the team and actually cared, we could do with some of that toughness back. I know some people don’t like to talk about budgets and think we should have a higher standard of football but that’s Scottish football in general. Anyone that’s decent goes down south the first chance they get because even National league clubs with rich owners can pay more in both transfer fees and wages. Bigger clubs than Motherwell with way more money up here are way worse. I’ve always said some supporters have their heads in the sand thinking the grass will be greener with someone else in charge, well it’s simply not and this is probably as good as it’s going to get. I rarely post on here these days, just get a bit frustrated with one or two individuals who seem to love what they see as failure which gives them  the opportunity to throw some abuse around. What I do know is this is not a good look for the club.

[wellfan]

8 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

100% on the nail.

I'm not saying that the press statement put out by the club should have ignored the "abuse" issue but I think it was inadvisable to focus so heavily on it. Very few other clubs would have done so. the way in which it was writtten gives the impression that our fans are worse than those of other clubs. They're not. Yes, we have an undesirable element but which club doesn't? 

The club’s statement on Kettlewell’s departure stinks of McMahon’s departure statement, where both continue to highlight the need for a head of comms or media strategy or something to that effect.