Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[well_said]

3 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Can this thread be binned  now, who gives a feck what Kettlewell does for the rest of his career, he's no longer involved with Motherwell.

Couldn't agree more .

[grizzlyg]

13 minutes ago, well_said said:

Couldn't agree more .

Yup....me to

[wunderwell]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

Yup....me to

Kettlewell is a dry lunch 😉

[Yabba's Turd]

I've never shouted abuse at SK, didn't like him, can completely forget him and all the other impostors we've had.
We'll get over you leaving us Stu, and yer Da sells the Avon. Prick.

[grizzlyg]

10 hours ago, wunderwell said:

Kettlewell is a dry lunch 😉

Lol

[Gadgey]

Just listened to the interview from start to finish and it’s fair to say, it was a tough listen. Kettlewell has in my opinion at least, really let himself down here and in the long run, will have done himself no favours.

He is clearly a very intense guy. From the day he arrived, he talked at machine gun pace using flowery words that didn’t quite fit with what he was saying. That intensity only ramped up the deeper he got into the job and his levels of personal investment increased.

Of course football management is a uniquely demanding role. It demands so much of your time and energy away from the Matchday, often influenced by factors outwith your span of control and attracts critique far beyond what almost any other vocation should expect.

Having coached youth, first team and held director of football roles at Semi Pro (Isthmian and national league level) clubs in England I can personally vouch (though on a much smaller scale) for the levels of pressure associated and the impact a life at the sharp end of football can have on you and all those around you.

Kettlewell talked about not reading the socials and working all hours and then coming home and seeing the sadness in the families eyes and using that as a driver for quitting. Every manager has that, and given that he has a family “like the Waltons” his chosen vocation and its hours worked, will also be a huge source of pressure. By choosing to work those hours, he will be choosing to miss some of his kids younger years. His choice, his guilt, not the clubs or the fans.

Fan abuse is often ill informed and when in that space, often feeling extremely unfair. However, I’d bet the mortgage that the reason Kettlewell chose to walk was because….

- He’s a naturally intense guy who’s response to things going badly is to throw himself further into his work

- This then brings a “I’m working my arse off here, what more do you want?” mindset.

- He was bringing this mindset home with him (he says he’s an aggressive person) and it was impacting on the family dynamic.

- The family begins to resent the cause of this Gollum side to his personality (his thankless employer and fans he seems to love more than us)

- The slightest bit of poor fan behaviour witnessed then gets jumped on by the family because they’ve become hyper sensitive to criticism.

- Kettlewell knows he’s running out of ideas and perhaps realising that hard work doesn’t fix.

The fella has one maybe two opportunities left to prove himself as a manager that can stay the pace without completely losing the nut, burning himself and his family out and resorting to the blame of others.

His decision to do that interview reeks of a wounded ego that doesn’t have the self awareness to recognise just how much he has to change.

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, Gadgey said:

Just listened to the interview from start to finish and it’s fair to say, it was a tough listen. Kettlewell has in my opinion at least, really let himself down here and in the long run, will have done himself no favours.

He is clearly a very intense guy. From the day he arrived, he talked at machine gun pace using flowery words that didn’t quite fit with what he was saying. That intensity only ramped up the deeper he got into the job and his levels of personal investment increased.

Of course football management is a uniquely demanding role. It demands so much of your time and energy away from the Matchday, often influenced by factors outwith your span of control and attracts critique far beyond what almost any other vocation should expect.

Having coached youth, first team and held director of football roles at Semi Pro (Isthmian and national league level) clubs in England I can personally vouch (though on a much smaller scale) for the levels of pressure associated and the impact a life at the sharp end of football can have on you and all those around you.

Kettlewell talked about not reading the socials and working all hours and then coming home and seeing the sadness in the families eyes and using that as a driver for quitting. Every manager has that, and given that he has a family “like the Waltons” his chosen vocation and its hours worked, will also be a huge source of pressure. By choosing to work those hours, he will be choosing to miss some of his kids younger years. His choice, his guilt, not the clubs or the fans.

Fan abuse is often ill informed and when in that space, often feeling extremely unfair. However, I’d bet the mortgage that the reason Kettlewell chose to walk was because….

- He’s a naturally intense guy who’s response to things going badly is to throw himself further into his work

- This then brings a “I’m working my arse off here, what more do you want?” mindset.

- He was bringing this mindset home with him (he says he’s an aggressive person) and it was impacting on the family dynamic.

- The family begins to resent the cause of this Gollum side to his personality (his thankless employer and fans he seems to love more than us)

- The slightest bit of poor fan behaviour witnessed then gets jumped on by the family because they’ve become hyper sensitive to criticism.

- Kettlewell knows he’s running out of ideas and perhaps realising that hard work doesn’t fix.

The fella has one maybe two opportunities left to prove himself as a manager that can stay the pace without completely losing the nut, burning himself and his family out and resorting to the blame of others.

His decision to do that interview reeks of a wounded ego that doesn’t have the self awareness to recognise just how much he has to change.

A common criticism of Kettlewell was his inability to learn. He won’t learn from this. A leopard never changes its spots. 

[David]

If there’s one positive to take from this, it’s the attention drawn to the abuse that was handed out. Whatever the reasons for him leaving, his attitude, or what anyone thinks of him, maybe it’s time for that small group of fans to reflect and ask themselves why they believe behaving like that at football matches is acceptable.

I’ve seen plenty of people online saying, “That’s just football.” And while it’s true that this kind of thing happens elsewhere and is often brushed aside, it doesn’t make it right. There were plenty of things that happened at football 15–20 years ago that people shrugged off as “just how it is” — and we now look back on those moments with embarrassment. Hopefully, one day, we’ll feel the same about this sort of behaviour.

As for Kettlewell, I wish him well. Listening to him speak, I’m not convinced management is the right fit, and I reckon a lot of clubs will feel the same. As a coach, he’s clearly capable. I hope he finds something that makes him happy and that his family are doing well.

But we move on.

[steelman1991]

21 minutes ago, David said:

If there’s one positive to take from this, it’s the attention drawn to the abuse that was handed out. Whatever the reasons for him leaving, his attitude, or what anyone thinks of him, maybe it’s time for that small group of fans to reflect and ask themselves why they believe behaving like that at football matches is acceptable.

I’ve seen plenty of people online saying, “That’s just football.” And while it’s true that this kind of thing happens elsewhere and is often brushed aside, it doesn’t make it right. There were plenty of things that happened at football 15–20 years ago that people shrugged off as “just how it is” — and we now look back on those moments with embarrassment. Hopefully, one day, we’ll feel the same about this sort of behaviour.

As for Kettlewell, I wish him well. Listening to him speak, I’m not convinced management is the right fit, and I reckon a lot of clubs will feel the same. As a coach, he’s clearly capable. I hope he finds something that makes him happy and that his family are doing well.

But we move on.

I don’t believe there was any abuse. Pure fiction.

[joewarkfanclub]

6 minutes ago, steelman1991 said:

I don’t believe there was any abuse. Pure fiction.

You'd need to be deaf to believe that.

He got abuse just about every week, even when we were doing well.

No worse than pretty much every Motherwell manager we have had in my lifetime, but it was there.

Some folk just like to go to the football to vent their spleen. If it stops them battering the wife and kids its probably a good thing......

[grizzlyg]

11 minutes ago, steelman1991 said:

I don’t believe there was any abuse. Pure fiction.

There was definitely abuse fired at him but not convinced on what levels.  My anger was he threw whole support under the bus and forgets after cup game he had a right dig at "so called experts "

I am sure Oprah Mcgregor of The Scottish Sun will have a follow up interview lined up, maybe better getting Robert Grieve to do it, the one journalist that saw threw all the excuses.

[Gadgey]

45 minutes ago, David said:

If there’s one positive to take from this, it’s the attention drawn to the abuse that was handed out. Whatever the reasons for him leaving, his attitude, or what anyone thinks of him, maybe it’s time for that small group of fans to reflect and ask themselves why they believe behaving like that at football matches is acceptable.

I’ve seen plenty of people online saying, “That’s just football.” And while it’s true that this kind of thing happens elsewhere and is often brushed aside, it doesn’t make it right. There were plenty of things that happened at football 15–20 years ago that people shrugged off as “just how it is” — and we now look back on those moments with embarrassment. Hopefully, one day, we’ll feel the same about this sort of behaviour.

As for Kettlewell, I wish him well. Listening to him speak, I’m not convinced management is the right fit, and I reckon a lot of clubs will feel the same. As a coach, he’s clearly capable. I hope he finds something that makes him happy and that his family are doing well.

But we move on.

Cannot disagree that abuse is not acceptable and it would seem that with the advent of social media, the parameters of acceptable have been stretched. Britain is a much worse off place for it.

However, there’s something about football that brings out the worst in people. From children’s grassroots to the very top of the senior game, there are more reports of unwarranted trolling, verbal abuse and pitchside physical violence than ever before.

Without doubt, whoever shouts abuse at players and managers really do need to do some self checking. All that anger is not good for their health and only serves to de-motivate the people they want to see improvement from.

[steelman1991]

Exactly this - none more so than any manager and I’ve seen a few since Bobby Howitt and certainly none than most other supports had out on a weekly basis. Good job he never managed Airdrie and had to make the long walk along the stand at Broomfield, he wouldn’t have lasted a week. Pure smokescreen.

[weeyin]

Kettlewell living rent free in a surprising number of posters heads here.

Do you remember what he was spouting off about when he was at Ross County?

It will all be forgotten when he's telling everyone he wishes there was VAR in the Championship because that controversial non-penalty was the only thing that prevented his Partick Thistle team from making the play-offs.

 

[David]

53 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Some folk just like to go to the football to vent their spleen. If it stops them battering the wife and kids its probably a good thing......

Absolutely. One thing I’d point out is that it’s often an older crowd who get involved in this sort of thing. Funnily enough, it's not the younger element that gets such a bad rap most times, and is generally looked down upon.

There's always the hope that the vitriol and high levels of abuse die out with the generation that seems to be most involved. Hopefully the younger generation aren't quite so stupid.

[sinjy]

I remember getting into an argument with someone when I think it might have been Owen Coyle missed a sitter in the last minute that would have won us the game. Eyes bulging, froth coming out of his mouth this guy left the player without a name. 

I asked him how do you think he will be feeling tonight knowing he could have won us the game got a win bonus for him and his mates and been the hero. I am sure he will be sick.

The answer was something like he's shite anyway

[joewarkfanclub]

48 minutes ago, David said:

Absolutely. One thing I’d point out is that it’s often an older crowd who get involved in this sort of thing. Funnily enough, it's not the younger element that gets such a bad rap most times, and is generally looked down upon.

There's always the hope that the vitriol and high levels of abuse die out with the generation that seems to be most involved. Hopefully the younger generation aren't quite so stupid.

Define "older crowd"

I might need to disassociate myself from that particular group! 

😆😆😆

[weeyin]

44 minutes ago, David said:

Absolutely. One thing I’d point out is that it’s often an older crowd who get involved in this sort of thing. Funnily enough, it's not the younger element that gets such a bad rap most times, and is generally looked down upon.

There's always the hope that the vitriol and high levels of abuse die out with the generation that seems to be most involved. Hopefully the younger generation aren't quite so stupid.

It's true that it is often the older crowd that get involved. When I started going to games in the 70s, it was the running joke was that the old blokes in the main stand with their flasks of soup and travelling rugs on their knees that complained the most. There was more than a grain of truth to that.

There was plenty of abuse from the terraces too, but that was usually aimed at players.

I don't think the younger generation are exempt though, they just vent their anger in a different way - typically social media.

Of course, for all of the above it's only "some fans". The fans you never hear about, which are the majority, are the ones that never post on here, are rarely on social media, and have recovered from any poor performances by they time they have watched the latest episode of Doctor Who and had their tea.

[wellgirl]

3 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Define "older crowd"

I might need to disassociate myself from that particular group! 

😆😆😆

Ha! Likewise 

[wellon]

1 minute ago, weeyin said:

It's true that it is often the older crowd that get involved. When I started going to games in the 70s, it was the running joke was that the old blokes in the main stand with their flasks of soup and travelling rugs on their knees that complained the most. There was more than a grain of truth to that.

There was plenty of abuse from the terraces too, but that was usually aimed at players.

I don't think the younger generation are exempt though, they just vent their anger in a different way - typically social media.

Of course, for all of the above it's only "some fans". The fans you never hear about, which are the majority, are the ones that never post on here, are rarely on social media, and have recovered from any poor performances by they time they have watched the latest episode of Doctor Who and had their tea.

I've never watched Doctor Who, maybe that's why I go on steelmen online, all making sense now

Never seen Star Wars either ...I used to enjoy Basil Brush, however....sorry I'm digressing. 

[joewarkfanclub]

59 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Kettlewell living rent free in a surprising number of posters heads here.

Do you remember what he was spouting off about when he was at Ross County?

It will all be forgotten when he's telling everyone he wishes there was VAR in the Championship because that controversial non-penalty was the only thing that prevented his Partick Thistle team from making the play-offs.

 

Its just therapy mate.

So many of us backed him to turn it around right up to the end despite all his faults because we felt the club needed to break the cycle of sacking managers.

His total meltdown and the subsequent media circus is probably vindication for the likes of Wellfan and a few others. The rest of us will get there.

Ultimately he has done us a favour by resigning and showing his true colours.

Mon the WimmerKoc Revolution!

[joewarkfanclub]

8 minutes ago, wellon said:

I've never watched Doctor Who, maybe that's why I go on steelmen online, all making sense now

Never seen Star Wars either ...I used to enjoy Basil Brush, however....sorry I'm digressing. 

Is that you Mr Roy?

Boom! Boom!

😆😆😆

[steelman1991]

1 hour ago, David said:

Absolutely. One thing I’d point out is that it’s often an older crowd who get involved in this sort of thing.

Agree and I definitey resemble that remark.

[grizzlyg]

39 minutes ago, wellon said:

I've never watched Doctor Who, maybe that's why I go on steelmen online, all making sense now

Never seen Star Wars either ...I used to enjoy Basil Brush, however....sorry I'm digressing. 

Ah ha haaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa.  BOOM BOOM

[David]

1 hour ago, weeyin said:

It's true that it is often the older crowd that get involved. When I started going to games in the 70s, it was the running joke was that the old blokes in the main stand with their flasks of soup and travelling rugs on their knees that complained the most. There was more than a grain of truth to that.

There was plenty of abuse from the terraces too, but that was usually aimed at players.

I don't think the younger generation are exempt though, they just vent their anger in a different way - typically social media.

Of course, for all of the above it's only "some fans". The fans you never hear about, which are the majority, are the ones that never post on here, are rarely on social media, and have recovered from any poor performances by they time they have watched the latest episode of Doctor Who and had their tea.

Oh, it's definitely a minority of fans. And to be fair, I equate those who moan on social media as being the same as me moaning about a game in the pub. Which is fine. Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a social media post that is critical of you as a manager or player within the confines of common decency is probably a little bit precious. 

I just don't get the end game of the abuse being dished out from the stands. I've yet to hear a post-game interview which goes along the lines of:

Reporter: "Well Player A, you were trailing 2-0 at half time and playing terribly. How did you manage to come out in the second half and turn it around for a 4-2 win?"

Player: "Well, I have to give a ton of credit to the group of fans sitting in the stand who absolutely lost the rag and proceeded to call me and the other lads absolute f*%&#%g c*$^s while spraying spittle and venom all over anyone sitting close to them. Without them acting like total t*ts every time we misplaced a pass or getting on our backs whenever we had the sheer audacity to play the ball sideways or backwards, it wouldn't have been possible to come back. It's what football is all about, really. I just wish my dad and my son had seen our fourth goal, but they left after my son burst into tears hearing a bunch of grown men who should know better hurling abuse at his old man, but hey, that's the beauty of football!"

Anyway, the new man is in place. Let's leave Kettlewell to his interviews, media appearances and possibly the Thistle job. Good luck to the guy.