Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[gaz7]

It's actually quite simple  as van veen and bair/spittal have been I o it team last couple if years. If we are being sensible who in our team is better than their players today? Maswanhise maybe and miller obviously maybe slattery but there players are better than ours. We are poor and have overachieved all year and with our injuries if we dont sign anyone last 4 months will be dire. We won't go down because of our points so far but by God out players are poor.  Halliday in cm and captain fukn hell when growing up the best player in team was cm or cf how times change.

 

[Kmcalpin]

5 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Good. Kettlewell is asking them to flog the same dead horse every week, which will only reduce the players’ stock and rightly make them angry. 

If I was Jack Vale tonight, I'd be totally p****d off. Asked to play a role for which he's not cut out physically and without support. 

[wellfan]

19 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

If I was Jack Vale tonight, I'd be totally p****d off. Asked to play a role for which he's not cut out physically and without support. 

The same could be said of several players, including some of those important players currently out injured (eg. Miller and Stama). Square pegs into round holes comes to mind. I wouldn’t be surprised if they collectively chuck it next week to speed up the inevitable. If so, Kettlewell will only have himself to blame. 

[David]

2 hours ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I don't think he will lose his job even if we end up in a play off spot tbh.

I could see it happening very easily if we ended up in a playoff spot, which is where you'd think we are going by some of the reactions over recent weeks.

Today’s performance, though, was absolutely dreadful—no two ways about it—and both the manager and players need to take responsibility for that.

That said, we’re currently sitting in fifth place in the league. Yes, I understand we might drop down the table, we could end up in the playoffs, and so on. But I’m not interested in speculation—I’m focused on where we are right now, and that’s fifth.

2 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

He can't keep living off the " I signed bair and won at ibrox" as a reason to stick with him. 

I don’t believe he is. He’s likely relying on the points I mentioned earlier: we’re sitting fifth in the table with more wins than half the teams in the league. Of course, that could change, and if it does, I’m sure the situation will be reassessed.

But for now? I don’t think the club would consider letting him go. The last time we parted ways with a manager who had us in fifth place, it triggered a difficult period where we were burdened by paying off ex-managers’ wages and the like.

In my opinion, unless things completely fall apart, we should wait until the end of the season to take stock. If we choose to move on at that point, there will be a broader pool of candidates available, and a new manager would have time to assemble their own team. Right now just isn’t the moment for a change.

[wellgirl]

3 minutes ago, David said:

I could see it happening very easily if we ended up in a playoff spot, which is where you'd think we are going by some of the reactions over recent weeks.

Today’s performance, though, was absolutely dreadful—no two ways about it—and both the manager and players need to take responsibility for that.

That said, we’re currently sitting in fifth place in the league. Yes, I understand we might drop down the table, we could end up in the playoffs, and so on. But I’m not interested in speculation—I’m focused on where we are right now, and that’s fifth.

I don’t believe he is. He’s likely relying on the points I mentioned earlier: we’re sitting fifth in the table with more wins than half the teams in the league. Of course, that could change, and if it does, I’m sure the situation will be reassessed.

But for now? I don’t think the club would consider letting him go. The last time we parted ways with a manager who had us in fifth place, it triggered a difficult period where we were burdened by paying off ex-managers’ wages and the like.

In my opinion, unless things completely fall apart, we should wait until the end of the season to take stock. If we choose to move on at that point, there will be a broader pool of candidates available, and a new manager would have time to assemble thbeir own team. Right now just isn’t the moment for a change.

I asked my brother last week if he thought we would get rid of Kettlewell if we lost today and he pulled a face and said don't be ridiculous - and he's a bigger Kettlewell critic than I am. The last thing we need right now is to be paying off yet another manager 

[grizzlyg]

8 minutes ago, David said:

I could see it happening very easily if we ended up in a playoff spot, which is where you'd think we are going by some of the reactions over recent weeks.

Today’s performance, though, was absolutely dreadful—no two ways about it—and both the manager and players need to take responsibility for that.

That said, we’re currently sitting in fifth place in the league. Yes, I understand we might drop down the table, we could end up in the playoffs, and so on. But I’m not interested in speculation—I’m focused on where we are right now, and that’s fifth.

I don’t believe he is. He’s likely relying on the points I mentioned earlier: we’re sitting fifth in the table with more wins than half the teams in the league. Of course, that could change, and if it does, I’m sure the situation will be reassessed.

But for now? I don’t think the club would consider letting him go. The last time we parted ways with a manager who had us in fifth place, it triggered a difficult period where we were burdened by paying off ex-managers’ wages and the like.

In my opinion, unless things completely fall apart, we should wait until the end of the season to take stock. If we choose to move on at that point, there will be a broader pool of candidates available, and a new manager would have time to assemble their own team. Right now just isn’t the moment for a change.

For me the concerning thing is the performances.  If we were competing and losing you can say fair enough but the last 4 away performances have been a shambles.  I know folk keep saying "we are 5th in league " but I genuinely think come end of February we will be 9th or 10th.  Yes if we can survive this season then a big decision to be made as Kettlewell isn't learning or improving things in my opinion.  At least he is on a rolling contract unlike the bonkers 3 1/2 ye extension we gave Alexander 

[Big Stall]

For me, neither league position or the poor run of results would affect the majority of the support. What has however provoked the reaction is the dire set ups week in week out. Very little attempt to change whats clearly not working. Not even threatning the opposition.

The manner of play & the bad results is what is going to spell the end for kettlewell

[wellgirl]

3 minutes ago, Big Stall said:

For me, neither league position or the poor run of results would affect the majority of the support. What has however provoked the reaction is the dire set ups week in week out. Very little attempt to change whats clearly not working. Not even threatning the opposition.

The manner of play & the bad results is what is going to spell the end for kettlewell

You're right - but I hope it doesn't come to that 

[David]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

I know folk keep saying "we are 5th in league " but I genuinely think come end of February we will be 9th or 10th.

If that turns out to be the case, a conversation will likely take place. However, at present, that’s purely speculative. Just as easily, we could win at the weekend, Hibs might drop points, and we’d find ourselves four or five points clear of the team in sixth. At the same time, if Aberdeen were to lose or draw against St Mirren, we wouldn’t be far off fourth place.

There’s a range of possibilities over the coming weeks, some positive, others less so. Let's see how it plays out.

[wellgirl]

7 minutes ago, David said:

If that turns out to be the case, a conversation will likely take place. However, at present, that’s purely speculative. Just as easily, we could win at the weekend, Hibs might drop points, and we’d find ourselves four or five points clear of the team in sixth. At the same time, if Aberdeen were to lose or draw against St Mirren, we wouldn’t be far off fourth place.

There’s a range of possibilities over the coming weeks, some positive, others less so. Let's see how it plays out.

Obviously teams below us will play one another and drop points too 

[wellsince75]

I don’t think SK is anywhere close to being sacked . Results have improved year on year since he’s come in.  

this season likely to finish between 5-9th spot . 

At our best we’re a hard working unit that wins a lot of 1st and 2nd balls . Battle hard and get some wins . We did this aug-oct and with average 4 shots on target per game were top 4 +  semi final . Most fans happy , albeit not amazing to watch .

At our worst we still work hard but stopped winning 1st and 2nd balls with average 2 shots on goal . This has been the case since  October.  There never been a plan B plan A is simply set up to work harder than the opposition.  
 

re the injuries , I think it’s a bit of a red herring . Assuming we had everyone fit I think our style of play would be exactly the same - but we’d pick up a few more wins .

none of this means SK will be sacked. For me I don’t like our brand of football under SK and although stats are improved year on year I find it a tough watch .  
 

if we finish top 6 I’m guessing majority of fans will want him to stay .  

[wellgirl]

2 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

I don’t think SK is anywhere close to being sacked . Results have improved year on year since he’s come in.  

this season likely to finish between 5-9th spot . 

At our best we’re a hard working unit that wins a lot of 1st and 2nd balls . Battle hard and get some wins . We did this aug-oct and with average 4 shots on target per game were top 4 +  semi final . Most fans happy , albeit not amazing to watch .

At our worst we still work hard but stopped winning 1st and 2nd balls with average 2 shots on goal . This has been the case since  October.  There never been a plan B plan A is simply set up to work harder than the opposition.  
 

re the injuries , I think it’s a bit of a red herring . Assuming we had everyone fit I think our style of play would be exactly the same - but we’d pick up a few more wins .

none of this means SK will be sacked. For me I don’t like our brand of football under SK and although stats are improved year on year I find it a tough watch .  
 

if we finish top 6 I’m guessing majority of fans will want him to stay .  

I don't think he is either. Today was gutting but for some reason we always blow it in cup games against teams we should be beating. I think we miss Miller and Ox is going to be a big miss. McGinn too. Hopefully we have a decent transfer window 

[Kmcalpin]

26 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

At our worst we still work hard but stopped winning 1st and 2nd balls with average 2 shots on goal . This has been the case since  October.  

Re the injuries , I think it’s a bit of a red herring . Assuming we had everyone fit I think our style of play would be exactly the same - but we’d pick up a few more wins .

Although I haven't seen recent away games before today  I thought that the biggest difference today was that St Johnstone worked far harder than us  especially when not in possession. They got in our faces, swarmed all over us and closed us down. We sat off them and just didn't do that. Their attitude was far far better than ours. Our lads lacked self belief and motivation for the most part. That's down in large part to management. 

[wellgirl]

3 hours ago, gaz7 said:

It's actually quite simple  as van veen and bair/spittal have been I o it team last couple if years. If we are being sensible who in our team is better than their players today? Maswanhise maybe and miller obviously maybe slattery but there players are better than ours. We are poor and have overachieved all year and with our injuries if we dont sign anyone last 4 months will be dire. We won't go down because of our points so far but by God out players are poor.  Halliday in cm and captain fukn hell when growing up the best player in team was cm or cf how times change.

 

I think we miss Bair and Spittal. I was really sorry to see Bair go. And that is the problem right now. We don't have a striker who can just bang goals in. Even last season when we were rubbish for long spells we had enough players chipping goals in to make up for the leaky defence and we don't have that right now 

[Kmcalpin]

2 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

We don't have a striker who can just bang goals in. Even last season when we were rubbish for long spells we had enough players chipping goals in to make up for the leaky defence and we don't have that right now 

I don't know about that. Certainly we do miss Bair - no argument about that though. Stama has the makings of an excellent striker as does Vale. However they're not being used correctly. Neither is a big physical target man  although that's how they're being asked to play. I felt very sorry for Vale today having to compete in the air with 2 6-4 centre backs. Hung out to dry. They both need to play off a big target man but that's not how we set up. 

Given SK's preferred style of play with one striker I just can't understand why he didn't sign a big target man in the summer. A mega mistake on his part. 

[mfc]

21 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

I think we miss Bair and Spittal. I was really sorry to see Bair go. And that is the problem right now. We don't have a striker who can just bang goals in. Even last season when we were rubbish for long spells we had enough players chipping goals in to make up for the leaky defence and we don't have that right now 

The way kettlewell sets us up we're lucky if we create a couple of chances a game so we're never going to have a striker that scores consistently.we currently have the worst problem imaginable in that we score very little while we could conceded at any moment.im not a fan of kettlewell but i think he has enough at his disposal even with the injuries to drop the over cautious approach and start to play a bit more attacking,the current set up, especially the 3 at the back is killing us at the minute.

[wellgirl]

24 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I don't know about that. Certainly we do miss Bair - no argument about that though. Stama has the makings of an excellent striker as does Vale. However they're not being used correctly. Neither is a big physical target man  although that's how they're being asked to play. I felt very sorry for Vale today having to compete in the air with 2 6-4 centre backs. Hung out to dry. They both need to play off a big target man but that's not how we set up. 

Given SK's preferred style of play with one striker I just can't understand why he didn't sign a big target man in the summer. A mega mistake on his part. 

Sure Stam was meant to be that person potentially 

Recruitment isn't just down to him - there are others involved surely. But I agree things need to change on the recruitment front 

[gaz7]

2 hours ago, David said:

If that turns out to be the case, a conversation will likely take place. However, at present, that’s purely speculative. Just as easily, we could win at the weekend, Hibs might drop points, and we’d find ourselves four or five points clear of the team in sixth. At the same time, if Aberdeen were to lose or draw against St Mirren, we wouldn’t be far off fourth place.

There’s a range of possibilities over the coming weeks, some positive, others less so. Let's see how it plays out.

Good points david and that is how close league is. However if our board is not planning for next manager then they are not fit for purpose. I liked kettlewell for a spell but his selections now are troubling me. Halliday as our captain and cm is ridiculous 

[Kmcalpin]

17 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Sure Stam was meant to be that person potentially 

Recruitment isn't just down to him - there are others involved surely. But I agree things need to change on the recruitment front 

If Stama was a meant to be that person then he was very badly scouted. Surely its obvious from videos that he doesn't have the physique? That shouldn't be hard to find out, even remotely.

Yes, others are involved in recruitment and must take some responsibility, but the onus lies fairly and squarely on SK's shoulders. He takes the decisions and is paid accordingly. Whoever is in the hot seat big changes are required for the summer. The problem is that planning is well advanced for that. 

[wellgirl]

15 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

If Stama was a meant to be that person then he was very badly scouted. Surely its obvious from videos that he doesn't have the physique? That shouldn't be hard to find out, even remotely.

Yes, others are involved in recruitment and must take some responsibility, but the onus lies fairly and squarely on SK's shoulders. He takes the decisions and is paid accordingly. Whoever is in the hot seat big changes are required for the summer. The problem is that planning is well advanced for that. 

Im beginning to find the this is all Kettlewells fault a little concerning. Stam was just beginning to hit form when he was injured. 

It's just getting too negative and I get why people are upset. But there's a scouting team and it's not all on Stuart 

If people don't want to back him now - fine. I'll back any manager till I can't anymore. 

I personally think we should have kept Bair. But I'm probably in the minority on that one.. 

I really can't get on with the theory that absolutely everything is Kettlewells fault - he kept us up when we were in free fall. But that counts for nothing because other managers did the same and got the boot 

When we get rid of Kettlewell the next manager will be subjected to the same conditions - and they'll last two years before fans want them out - Alexander got the bump when we were top six and looks like the same will happen again 

[Mootherwell86]

I don’t even care if we sack him. Overall, he’s done a really good job and is probably exceeding his remit.

That being said, the football is fucking terrible and there’s no plan to change it. I’ve found things I’d much rather do on a Saturday afternoon than watch our current incarnation.

[MJC]

He’s not getting sacked and he will be here until the end of the season at the very least.

There does need to be some serious conversations and discussions had with him about his football and his recruitment though because what is being served up just now and throughout his tenure is only going to drive fans away. 

[mfc88]

The conundrum is that SK will probably see us to safety again this year. Reality is we're probably only 7-10 points away from that. And if things go our way, possibly top 6 spot but I doubt it tbh.

He's not getting sacked barring a disaster, but between now and the end of the season the board really need to decide what we are as a football club.

Are we a club that is happy trudging by each season, picking up enough points in the league and making up the numbers in the cups?

Or do we need to be more than that, giving fans something to get excited about?

And yes, you can have both.

My worry is we limp by to the end of the season and extend SKs deal. I do appreciate the positive aspects of SKs reign, but I just don't see that we're going anywhere under him now - he steadied a sinking ship and has taken us as far as he can, but now its gone stale and fans are dissipating... fast.

We preach about being a community club - so give the community a club they believe in. It's getting harder and harder with each passing week at the moment, especially away from home, it's fucking woeful stuff. 

This is almost a copy & paste of GAs tenure.

[wellfan]

11 minutes ago, mfc88 said:

My worry is we limp by to the end of the season and extend SKs deal.

He’s on a rolling contact which should be terminated immediately before fans walk away en masse.

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/08/31/stuart-kettlewell-and-stephen-frail-sign-new-deals/

An argument could be made that it would cost the club less to sack him now and pay his wages to May 2025 than it would to absorb the cost of giving him his fourth transfer window to further bloat the squad with shite.

[Kmcalpin]

13 minutes ago, wellfan said:

He’s on a rolling contact which should be terminated immediately before fans walk away en masse.

Having slept on yesterdays game (not during it), I'm angrier now than I was at full time. I think he's now lost the support and if the directors don't act soon, attendances will plummet forcing their hand. Tentative signs yesterday that the players had lost faith. 

I can stomach dull football, but not if results are equally poor, which they are. Kettlewell has suffered horrendous bad luck (?) through injuries and I get that to some extent, but his reaction to that has been less than impressive. His summer signings are now coming under the spotlight for different reasons and many are found to be wanting. His now weekly meltdowns and yellow cards also indicate a manager under great pressure and he's not handling it well.