Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[MelvinBragg]

23 minutes ago, weeyin said:

I know the league is pretty tight, but we're still more involved in a fight to stay in the top 6 than a fight to stay out of the bottom 2.

We're six points above Killie in eleventh. They have Dundee United at Rugby Park on Saturday, we play Celtic on Sunday. Not beyond the realms of possibility that the gap is three points on Sunday night.

But I know that you know this. The trajectory of our form is what makes me consider the bottom two's point total rather than those of the rest of the top six...

[gaz7]

24 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Of course McCall had a lot more credit in the bank, so much easier to leave on good terms.

It's also quite funny that some posters (not you, btw) are happy to hurl dog's abuse at someone and then moan about lack of respect or dignity when they leave.

With mccall most certainly but I enjoyed reading the email that was posted elsewhere. 

Your last point is what is really funny. Happens a lot. People give it out but can't take it back.

SK last week when he had go at fans was not gd look but there was truth in what he said. We can all go to game and think we know better but majority of time the professionals know best.

Us as fans do not know state of injurys, players attitude, personal stuff etc etc but we can convince ourselves we know better.

Fwiw I do also believe he had come to end but theirs no denying he never had his best team on park often enough.

[Kmcalpin]

3 hours ago, gaz7 said:

I've saw a lot of I've not heard anything bad at games etc which is nonsense as I certainly have.....

That may well be the case and I can't question you on that. Happy to accept your experience without quibble.

A lot depends on where you were seated,  if you we're distracted at the time, or were elsewhere ie toilets or food kiosk. However I can only repeat my experience. I saw and heard plenty of angry fans, but no abuse. 

All I'm asking you to do is to extend the same courtesy to me and accept my version of events as I experienced them. 

[weeyin]

15 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:

We're six points above Killie in eleventh. They have Dundee United at Rugby Park on Saturday, we play Celtic on Sunday. Not beyond the realms of possibility that the gap is three points on Sunday night.

But I know that you know this. The trajectory of our form is what makes me consider the bottom two's point total rather than those of the rest of the top six...

As I said, I appreciate the league is tight.

However, our form has been win a few, lose a few, and I don't expect that to change much over the coming weeks. Our last 4 league games have been W D L L.  Nothing to write home about, but not panic stations either.

Even our normally horrendous December results gave a L W W D L D return, and that included two Old Firm matches.

So I am nowhere near worried about relegation at this stage

[Orinoco]

Us fans eh, what we like? Nasty, critical and clueless. How dare we raise our voices with concerns on what direction our team is heading.  That's what the majority of our fan base has shown, ie concerns we are on the slide. It's only a small minority, like every other club, that continually over step the mark. This has been happening since football started. Not right they do this, but why let them win? Obviously he has realised he knows he can't stop the slide, and goes before his reputation takes a battering.

The way this resignation and take over has been handled and other issues, raises an eye brow on who we need to be keeping an eye on. Alienating your fan base is not a good look Mr Caldwell.

[weeyin]

Maybe our fans need to grow a thicker skin and not feel hurt or alienated?

[well_said]

19 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

Us fans eh, what we like? Nasty, critical and clueless. How dare we raise our voices with concerns on what direction our team is heading.  That's what the majority of our fan base has shown, ie concerns we are on the slide. It's only a small minority, like every other club, that continually over step the mark. This has been happening since football started. Not right they do this, but why let them win? Obviously he has realised he knows he can't stop the slide, and goes before his reputation takes a battering.

The way this resignation and take over has been handled and other issues, raises an eye brow on who we need to be keeping an eye on. Alienating your fan base is not a good look Mr Caldwell.

Just wait until we start throwing barriers at the team bus,  the media will go ballistic.

[Orinoco]

So our fan base are to accept attacks on their character, when the majority has been mostly understanding and supportive. Being critical constructively is not abuse. We all wanted a successful team. 

[texanwellfan]

He said, she said. Your fault their fault. 
ok I’m moving along to the new manager thread. 

[santheman]

All they needed to say was  although we recognise the right of our fanbase to criticise and voice their concerns, we also recognise that a small vocal minority may have taken their criticism a bit too far and we would urge them to consider their actions going forward so that it does not reflect on the wider fan base and cause negative publicity for the club.

Or words to that effect

[Orinoco]

Exactly!

[gaz7]

44 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

That may well be the case and I can't question you on that. Happy to accept your experience without quibble.

A lot depends on where you were seated,  if you we're distracted at the time, or were elsewhere ie toilets or food kiosk. However I can only repeat my experience. I saw and heard plenty of angry fans, but no abuse. 

All I'm asking you to do is to extend the same courtesy to me and accept my version of events as I experienced them. 

Totally agree with you  on this and apologies if anyone thought I was meaning them in isolation. 

My generic reading is the majority say they haven't heard much abuse when it happens every game.

Now saying your shite or words to that effect might not seem nuch to some but it also depends how it is said and certainly at half time and 2nd half and mostly at end of cup game a lot were really going nuts shouting and bawling in a really aggressive manner. So in essence what I mean is depends how you describe abuse.

I totally appreciate also it depends where you are sitting leaving etc.

 

 

[dennyc]

48 minutes ago, weeyin said:

As I said, I appreciate the league is tight.

However, our form has been win a few, lose a few, and I don't expect that to change much over the coming weeks. Our last 4 league games have been W D L L.  Nothing to write home about, but not panic stations either.

Even our normally horrendous December results gave a L W W D L D return, and that included two Old Firm matches.

So I am nowhere near worried about relegation at this stage

Current form. In 2025 we have played six matches, all but one against teams sitting below us in the League. We have won one match, against an Aberdeen time that has not won in over a dozen league games. We have lost four games and stolen a very fortunate point at Kilmarnock. We are out of the Cup at the first hurdle. With Celtic to come followed immediately by games against teams with us in their sights.

Good on you for not being concerned about current form and performance and for setting aside the narrowing gap between us and the play off spot. Nobody in their right mind believes abuse of any kind is acceptable but all the talk of what or was not aimed at SK should not deflect from the woeful performances he oversaw of late. As recently as November being drawn into the relegation zone was not a consideration. It is now. And he shares responsibility for that.

I'm truly sorry it ended this way for Kettlewell but I think it was time for change. Having supported him throughout last year's run, I had hoped the SF defeat would have proven to him that a passive approach was not the way to go week in week out. Had he not walked, I'm not convinced he would have lasted much longer. Has anybody seen anything in recent matches to suggest he had the ability to turn things round? Or seen a willingness to try something a wee bit different? That might just have been enough for many of those fans keen to see him succeed.

[weeyin]

Our form has been inconsistent this season, but so has the form of our immediate competitors. That's why it's such a tight league.

I've seen plenty of relegation-form Motherwell teams and this doesn't look like any of them (yet).

There's certainly good arguments to made about changes being required - whether that includes tactics, playing personnel or manager. I don't think that argument needs to involve relegation struggles because we lost 2 league games in a row.

If we'd done an Aberdeen and Lost 8, Drawn 2 of our last 10, then relegation would be 100% in the mix.

[Yoshi-1991]

1 hour ago, weeyin said:

Maybe our fans need to grow a thicker skin and not feel hurt or alienated?

Same goes with the manager 

[grizzlyg]

My final point will be if SK was concerned about abuse then why not mention it to club after cup game? The club could then have put out a statement to fans saying it won't be tolerated.   Again the clowns abusing him verbally wouldn't accept anyone doing that to them and this should be a reset for them as I am hating our club get dragged through the mud from other fans and media

[Richie]

The Media are actually starting to give glimpses of hypocrisy (and shitebaggery).

I remember fans breaking into a dressing room, security barriers being thrown at team busses etc, not to mention the usual nonsense.

Don't remember them going in on the respective fan-bases like this.

Its always heavily stressed that its 'a minority' in those cases.

Easy target.

[star sail]

9 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Robinson's tenure featured three terrible runs of form the last of which almost got us relegated.

It wasn't all bad but here's the thing about 'style of play'.

When Robinson had either of the two outstanding players during his reign, Moult and Turnbull, we were decent to very good.  When those players weren't there (or not being played) we were mostly garbage.

To play good football you need good footballers.  Under Robinson, under anyone.

I'm in my fifth decade going to Fir Park.  In that time we've had 4, 5, maybe at a push 6 teams that actually played consistent good football and all of them had, at our level, outstanding players whether it was Tom Boyd, Davie Cooper, Tommy Coyne, Brian Martin, Paul Lambert, David Turnbull, Ross McCormick, Darren Randolph, Michael Higdon or who ever.

Outside of Lennon Miler we don't have anyone and he's had two periods of injury that, both times, has seen our form fall away.

At its most innocent the quest for good football without good footballers is like the alchemy of the modern day.  It's a bird brained folly.  It's just not going to happen.

At its worst it's a re-write of the clubs history to justify the most atrocious toxicity.  It's like alt right weirdo Trump stuff that denies actual reality.

It used to be you went to the football to escape all the bad things of life.  Now the football is all the bad things of life magnified.  

Support the team and stop all this idiotic, toxic hatred.  

 

 

 

This is spot on in regard to both playing style and the increasingly toxic nature of football and society in general.

I have just read through the last 24 hours of posts and the lack of self awareness is fairly staggering.

It is interesting how we are very comfortable putting an individuals performance and character under almost intolerable levels of scrutiny for an extended period of time and yet as soon as the spotlight falls on our own behaviours we cry that it is not fair and that we are being victimised. 

 

[Well Well]

The club are requesting that there is a show of support by the fans at the game on Sunday for SK and the interim management team with 90 minutes of silence.

[dennyc]

What are we saying is actually abuse? Within a match/football environment as opposed to normal life. 

Does it include fans voicing their opinion on team selection, tactics, application, performance? Does it include those fans who choose to boo a team and players off the pitch following an insipid, toothless and passive performance? Does it include shouting at opposition Managers and players? Does it include criticism and frustration vented online? Does it include fans demanding a player be dropped or a Manager dismissed? Does it include charming ditties from the Stands defaming opposition players? All very easy to be offended by but is it abuse in the world of football? And sadly all of that regularly occurs within sport. Particularly in open debate. Not saying it is palatable at times. But it is reality. 

If the above is abuse, Goodwin and then Thelin at Aberdeen, Naismith when at Hearts, Clement at Rangers, Montgomery when at Hibs, Rodgers upon his return to Celtic, Adams when at County were all subject to abuse. Neil Lennon and Dougie Imrie everywhere. And numerous others. Possibly greater than SK experienced. But I heard little from the media regarding those situations and the Boards involved were also pretty silent. I also suspect those I listed would have been upset but saw it as part of modern day sport. Not great, but again reality. 

So what exactly is the abuse that Stuart Kettlewell was subjected to? If it was unlawful or threatening or even occurring when out and about with family and friends etc then that is disgusting and anybody in their right mind would condemn it. And action against those responsible would be support by most. Is it vile and offensive behaviour during matches in which case the authorities have the power to intervene and MFC could ask for restraint. I did not witness anything of that nature either Saturday in Perth. Others may have? 
I suppose I am asking for evidence that convinces me the media in response to the Resignation Statement are not blowing everything out of proportion.

I feel sorry for Kettlewell and wish him well. But the cynic in me does wonder about the timing and the Club Statement. Whatever, I hope he can now get on with his chosen career.
 

 

 

 

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, weeyin said:

 

I've seen plenty of relegation-form Motherwell teams and this doesn't look like any of them (yet).

 

I wrote off the Tynecastle performance as a lesson to be learned. I then gratefully accepted the point at Rugby Park despite another woeful performance. We might even have stolen it at the end.

Then came Easter Road followed by McDiarmid Park twice. Each game worse than the game before and against teams that ought to have been as fragile as us. We lost those three games and each time the margin of the loss flattered us. That is our current form and I saw nothing from SK to say he had any answers.

We can revisit this at season end when hopefully your optimism will have been proven well placed with us sitting well away from and relegation battle. 

[Stevie73]

6 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I wrote off the Tynecastle performance as a lesson to be learned. I then gratefully accepted the point at Rugby Park despite another woeful performance. We might even have stolen it at the end.

Then came Easter Road followed by McDiarmid Park twice. Each game worse than the game before and against teams that ought to have been as fragile as us. We lost those three games and each time the margin of the loss flattered us. That is our current form and I saw nothing from SK to say he had any answers.

We can revisit this at season end when hopefully your optimism will have been proven well placed with us sitting well away from and relegation battle. 

Also if you look at possession in all of these games we are about the 30% mark, going back to the league cup, we were giving up possession to lower league sides and hoping they tire so we could catch them on the break.

[Richie]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stuart-kettlewell-third-motherwell-boss-34569942

[couttsy]

36 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I wrote off the Tynecastle performance as a lesson to be learned. I then gratefully accepted the point at Rugby Park despite another woeful performance. We might even have stolen it at the end.

Then came Easter Road followed by McDiarmid Park twice. Each game worse than the game before and against teams that ought to have been as fragile as us. We lost those three games and each time the margin of the loss flattered us. That is our current form and I saw nothing from SK to say he had any answers.

We can revisit this at season end when hopefully your optimism will have been proven well placed with us sitting well away from and relegation battle. 

Pretty similar to my thoughts over the last few weeks. We’ve been struggling to get any shots on target never mind score goals.

Before last Saturdays game at Perth we were 11/1 to finish in the bottom 2, I suspect by Sunday evening those odds will have halved.
I think Saints are just too far back (thankfully) but unless we get a competent manager and/or Miller/AP back soon I would keep the play off dates free in your diary, unfortunately.

[Benson]

See the media are putting the boot in saying that's the 3rd manager the fans have got rid off,and sod saying we're on a slippery slope,lol