Stuart Kettlewell discussion thread

[wellgirl]

1 minute ago, Pepper said:

The general consensus seems to be that he received the same or lesser levels of abuse than others have in the past. I don't think there is any merit in that debate anyway as there are obviously things we will never know. 

Thee has got to be more to this for to merit the sort of reaction we are seeing, almost entirely across he board. I suspect we may never find out.

We are getting the reaction because the manager has come out and said that's why he's left - when others didn't. I think so anyway. 

 

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

SOD has absolutely zero self-awareness here. I'd go as far as saying that he's pretty much just Kettlewelled himself unless he can turn his own performances around. 

Jeez can we please not start booing SOD on Sunday if he plays?.  Really fed up with the pelters that lad takes.  Yes he hasn't been playing well but seems to get blamed for everything,  anyone got proof? Hmmmmm

[wellgirl]

2 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Jeez can we please not start booing SOD on Sunday if he plays?.  Really fed up with the pelters that lad takes.  Yes he hasn't been playing well but seems to get blamed for everything,  anyone got proof? Hmmmmm

Agree 

[Pepper]

11 minutes ago, star sail said:

Resume. I like that!

Ok. If that's your opinion of what is acceptable and you would be happy with members of your own family been subjected to similar statements that is fine.

What I don't understand is that you are offended when the media, SK, SOD, the Motherwell board questioning those very same types of comment. That does not make any sense to me? 

None of these people have made anything like the comments referenced above. It smacks of double standards.

None of this is new though. You'd be forgiven for thinking we were the first fans in history to give their manager stick. 

Just so we are clear, and it goes without saying, any fan who was personally abusing Kettlewell is an arsehole. 

Ii don't get the double standards comment, these are not the same things.

[wellfan]

7 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Jeez can we please not start booing SOD on Sunday if he plays?.  Really fed up with the pelters that lad takes.  Yes he hasn't been playing well but seems to get blamed for everything,  anyone got proof? Hmmmmm

No booing from me. I'm merely making an observation on a forum. He does, however, need to improve his performances. 

[well_said]

16 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

We are getting the reaction because the manager has come out and said that's why he's left - when others didn't. I think so anyway. 

 

That depends wether you choose to believe the managers version of events or has chosen to say this to disguise his shortcomings .

[wellgirl]

1 minute ago, well_said said:

That depends wether you choose to believe the managers version of events or has chosen to say this to disguise his shortcomings .

I've seen people elsewhere on social media say they witnessed abuse that was directed at him at the last two away games

I've also seen players get abuse at home games - so if they get abuse - why wouldn't Kettlewell? 

[well_said]

13 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Jeez can we please not start booing SOD on Sunday if he plays?.  Really fed up with the pelters that lad takes.  Yes he hasn't been playing well but seems to get blamed for everything,  anyone got proof? Hmmmmm

Perhaps it's because he is an ex international player and quite possibly one of our highest earners that maybe more is expected of him. But he is a distinctly average player who has been responsible for numerous errors leading to goals against or penalties for the opposition.

[well_said]

Just now, wellgirl said:

I've seen people elsewhere on social media say they witnessed abuse that was directed at him at the last two away games

I've also seen players get abuse at home games - so if they get abuse - why wouldn't Kettlewell? 

Probably nothing like the abuse previous good managers (the McLean brothers , Stuart mccoll.) for example and we got to loads of semi finals and finals with those two .

[Graene-mfc]

I’m not doubting for a second that Stuart was subjected to an element abuse that may have crossed the line, but if it’s to the scale where he’s felt the only option was to tender his resignation then perhaps it would be prudent of the club to carry out an investigation and hold those responsible of said abuse to account. Instead they have verbatim pedalled the narrative of an outgoing manager, throwing your entire fan base under the bus with a poorly worded statement. In what other business would you not protect your own interests and those of your customers? Absolutely incredible, and has the potential to create a real divide between the club and the fans when we should be calling for unity. Interviews and snippets with Frail and SOD are adding fuel to the fire and allowing the media to have a field day with this when they ignore sectarian bile being spouted on a weekly basis and the stick that certain other managers have received recently.

Personal abuse of any kind is completely unacceptable, unfortunately it’s rife in the world of football and every club has its element of unsavoury fans, the club has fuelled this narrative and I’m at a loss to see what they are trying to gain from it? Hardly an enticing job for a potential new manager when it’s plastered all over the news that the fans are abusive and hounded the manager out, also not the best message to send out when you will be begging said fans to renew season tickets in a few months time.

[wellgirl]

Just now, well_said said:

Probably nothing like the abuse previous good managers (the McLean brothers , Stuart mccoll.) for example and we got to loads of semi finals and finals with those two .

I don't think that matters. Just because other managers had more abuse doesn't make it OK that this has happened. The issue is with the people dishing it out in my view. Not the folk on the receiving end 

[wellfan]

5 minutes ago, Graene-mfc said:

also not the best message to send out when you will be begging said fans to renew season tickets in a few months time.

I'm sure if the club continues their PR disaster and further alienates the fanbase, Caldwell will be getting a fair few emails from longstanding season ticket holders explaining why they are no longer renewing. Perhaps then he will conveniently remember who funds his and the players' salaries. 

[star sail]

34 minutes ago, Pepper said:

None of this is new though. You'd be forgiven for thinking we were the first fans in history to give their manager stick. 

Just so we are clear, and it goes without saying, any fan who was personally abusing Kettlewell is an arsehole. 

Ii don't get the double standards comment, these are not the same things.

We are no better and no worse as a fan group. I don't think that justifies the behaviours.

What has brought this debate about is that a manager has called us on it. 

It opens up a very interesting debate. 

What interests me most is that I am clearly in a significant minority that believes SK has good cause for complaint. Every football manager in the country probably has good cause for complaint.

Regarding the double standards, I am very clumsily referencing the comment about SOD because he is obviously considered fair game, whilst by comparison the Motherwell support collectively sees itself as  beyond reproach or criticism. The context is different but I believe the sentiment to be the same 

Judging by the mood, I have been losing the argument generally on the forum over these last few days. That of  itself is very instructive and makes the discussion really interesting and worthwhile for me. It is always interesting to discover that your views are not representative of a collective you previously believed to align with on some level .

Hopefully the double standards comment is slightly clearer (clear as mud possibly). It is all good discussion for as long as it does not become personal. 

 

 

 

[well_said]

7 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

I don't think that matters. Just because other managers had more abuse doesn't make it OK that this has happened. The issue is with the people dishing it out in my view. Not the folk on the receiving end 

Merely saying that it has gone on for years , in Tommy McLean's case I remember demonstrations after matches . However stuart kettlewell must be a poor wee soul with a very thin skin who never has taken responsibility but is happy to take the plaudits when they are going . But not to worry his media pals will ensure he will have a job soon , the same pals who are kicking our club all over the shop without any facts . I prefer to listen to Stephen craigan take on our clubs performances this season. The fact that we are in fifth place atm is a consequence of the poorest Scottish football has been in my time watching football . 

[wellgirl]

1 minute ago, well_said said:

Merely saying that it has gone on for years , in Tommy McLean's case I remember demonstrations after matches . However stuart kettlewell must be a poor wee soul with a very thin skin who never has taken responsibility but is happy to take the plaudits when they are going . But not to worry his media pals will ensure he will have a job soon , the same pals who are kicking our club all over the shop without any facts . I prefer to listen to Stephen craigan take on our clubs performances this season. The fact that we are in fifth place atm is a consequence of the poorest Scottish football has been in my time watching football . 

I get your point - completely. I just don't think abuse on any level is acceptable. People are human and sometimes there will be a tipping point - and the tipping point for one person might be different for someone else. 

I'm also very sorry that our club is getting a kicking - but that's on the board who put that statement out

I've been going to games since 1979 so I do know the abuse other managers took 

[Pepper]

2 minutes ago, star sail said:

We are no better and no worse as a fan group. I don't think that justifies the behaviours.

What has brought this debate about is that a manager has called us on it. 

It opens up a very interesting debate. 

What interests me most is that I am clearly in a significant minority that believes SK has good cause for complaint. Every football manager in the country probably has good cause for complaint.

Regarding the double standards, I am very clumsily referencing the comment about SOD because he is obviously considered fair game, whilst by comparison the Motherwell support collectively sees itself as  beyond reproach or criticism. The context is different but I believe the sentiment to be the same 

Judging by the mood, I have been loosing the argument generally on the forum over these last few days. That of  itself is very instructive and makes the discussion really interesting and worthwhile for me. It is always interesting to discover that your views are not representative of a collective you previously believed to align with on some level .

Hopefully the double standards comment is slightly clearer (clear as mud possibly). It is all good discussion for as long as it does not become personal. 

 

 

 

I agree with the sentiment of your posts, even if not all of the points you make,

Apologies if I have played the man and not the ball in an earlier reply. 

There is definitely a discussion to be had regarding what is considered to be an acceptable level of abuse in football, not only abuse directed at managers and players from fans, but from managers and players towards officials, and that extends across all levels of the game. 

In all honesty, I'm a bit bewildered by the whole sorry episode. 

[wellfan]

We should definitely keep this thread open to see how Kettlewell reacts in his next job once he's found out by the fans and they start to put the pressure on him. 

[wellgirl]

13 minutes ago, star sail said:

We are no better and no worse as a fan group. I don't think that justifies the behaviours.

What has brought this debate about is that a manager has called us on it. 

It opens up a very interesting debate. 

What interests me most is that I am clearly in a significant minority that believes SK has good cause for complaint. Every football manager in the country probably has good cause for complaint.

Regarding the double standards, I am very clumsily referencing the comment about SOD because he is obviously considered fair game, whilst by comparison the Motherwell support collectively sees itself as  beyond reproach or criticism. The context is different but I believe the sentiment to be the same 

Judging by the mood, I have been losing the argument generally on the forum over these last few days. That of  itself is very instructive and makes the discussion really interesting and worthwhile for me. It is always interesting to discover that your views are not representative of a collective you previously believed to align with on some level .

Hopefully the double standards comment is slightly clearer (clear as mud possibly). It is all good discussion for as long as it does not become personal. 

 

 

 

I think SOD is an easy target for some fans and has been for quite some time now 

[star sail]

2 minutes ago, Pepper said:

I agree with the sentiment of your posts, even if not all of the points you make,

Apologies if I have played the man and not the ball in an earlier reply. 

There is definitely a discussion to be had regarding what is considered to be an acceptable level of abuse in football, not only abuse directed at managers and players from fans, but from managers and players towards officials, and that extends across all levels of the game. 

In all honesty, I'm a bit bewildered by the whole sorry episode. 

No need to apologise and regarding your last comment, I have been really surprised by how much this story has got to me over the last 24 hours when generally these days I am very philosophical about the football.

Bewildered sums it up nicely. 

[star sail]

7 minutes ago, wellfan said:

We should definitely keep this thread open to see how Kettlewell reacts in his next job once he's found out by the fans and they start to put the pressure on him. 

Nnnnooooooo!! I think it would be difficult to live through all of this again. 

Anyway we will be busy putting the pressure on our own new man.

[wellfan]

1 minute ago, star sail said:

Anyway we will be busy putting the pressure on our own new man.

Which is exactly what all fanbases across the world do when performances are shite. 

[Kmcalpin]

3 hours ago, Richie said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stuart-kettlewell-third-motherwell-boss-34569942

Whilst there's a lot of sense in what he says, I think it was inadvisable to say this just now. Maybe just adding fuel to the fire. We need to learn lessons and move on now. The club and Society have their work cut out to mend a few bridges. We need a united front.

[santheman]

Last post on this.

I'm fuming that Kettlewell didn't have the balls to go with some dignity although I can understand why he did what he did.

I'm absolutely fuming that a few arseholes who think they can shout whatever they like have put us in this position.

I'm also fuming at the club and the Well Society for putting out statements that effectively tar us all with the same brush as the arseholes above and given the press a field day.

I'm actually beginning to question the whole set up of the club as we look like Amateur night at the Palladium.

Seriously considering just walking away after 60 years.

[mfc]

10 minutes ago, wellfan said:

We should definitely keep this thread open to see how Kettlewell reacts in his next job once he's found out by the fans and they start to put the pressure on him. 

I wonder if he will even want back into management,I'm sure he will but to leave one job citing abuse and knowing fine well it's going to happen again in a new job,his next move will be interesting.im sure hes had stick at times through his playing career and at county as manager and definitely took some during our bad run last season but yet we have to believe he's resigned cause of abuse the last two weekends in perth,something is definitely a miss with the whole affair.

[mfc88]

46 minutes ago, Graene-mfc said:

 

I’m not doubting for a second that Stuart was subjected to an element abuse that may have crossed the line, but if it’s to the scale where he’s felt the only option was to tender his resignation then perhaps it would be prudent of the club to carry out an investigation and hold those responsible of said abuse to account. Instead they have verbatim pedalled the narrative of an outgoing manager, throwing your entire fan base under the bus with a poorly worded statement. In what other business would you not protect your own interests and those of your customers? Absolutely incredible, and has the potential to create a real divide between the club and the fans when we should be calling for unity. Interviews and snippets with Frail and SOD are adding fuel to the fire and allowing the media to have a field day with this when they ignore sectarian bile being spouted on a weekly basis and the stick that certain other managers have received recently.

Personal abuse of any kind is completely unacceptable, unfortunately it’s rife in the world of football and every club has its element of unsavoury fans, the club has fuelled this narrative and I’m at a loss to see what they are trying to gain from it? Hardly an enticing job for a potential new manager when it’s plastered all over the news that the fans are abusive and hounded the manager out, also not the best message to send out when you will be begging said fans to renew season tickets in a few months time.

Absolutely spot on. Well put.