wellgirl Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 20 minutes ago, yosemite sam said: Totally agree about this pleading poverty shit. I'm sick of hearing SK bleating on about we've not got a lot of money to spend etc etc etc. Just get on with managing whatever budget we have, and don't keep emphasising the negative. Where has he said anything about pleading poverty recently? He's only spoken about Liam Kelly in the last few days. And maybe if he has spoken about not having a lot of money to spend in the past - it's because we don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 43 minutes ago, yosemite sam said: Totally agree about this pleading poverty shit. I'm sick of hearing SK bleating on about we've not got a lot of money to spend etc etc etc. Just get on with managing whatever budget we have, and don't keep emphasising the negative. Find me a manager we've had who hasn't said the same in their time with us in the last 10 years. Every single one has discussed that working on a budget here means restrictions on the playing staff and needing players to be adept at two or three positions to plug the inevitable gaps/injuries over a season. It's not new, nor do I think Kettlewell goes on about it any more than those who preceded him. It could be far, far worse... he could be David "we've got nae cash" Martindale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 If a manager is under pressure during a 15 game winless run, is it not fair game for him to plead mitigation in terms of budget and request a little more understanding of his situation? I know I certainly wouldnt be lying down meakly and waiting for the bullet! Id be challenging those that set my budget to stand by me after delivering what they asked. In respect of whether this season has been succesful or not, it again depends on whether you wish to make any allowances for those circumstances. I would say keeping us in the league is always the pre-requisite for any Motherwell manager. After that we can start to look up. We are on course for finishing 7th or 8th (9th at worst) which is acceptable in a season when the budget had to be re-structured so drastically on the back of the Alexander/Hammell debacles. As for the cups we navigated the group stages of the league cup fairly comfortably and were rewarded as the seeded team with an away tie to a St Mirren side who have had a relatively good season. That was a game of fine margins so disappointing but not unexpected to lose. The Morton defeat is a sore one as we should have known what to expect and walked right into it and played the game exactly the way Dougie Imrie wanted us to. Definite black mark on our record there. We have played some decent football at times, scored some magnificent goals, handed out a few thrashings and beat Rangers away in the league for the first time in 27 years. We have seen the re-birth of a player in Theo Bair and one of our own come through to claim a regular first team place at the age of 17. Id say all in all, thats not too bad a season. Probably just about pass marks for the manager and the team. It has been incredibly frustrating at times, particularly some of our defending. Many mistakes were made. But there is lots of room for improvement and we have kept faith with a manager who will have learned a helluva lot for the experience. With the re-structuring off the field and the potential for additional investment off it, or at least a re-invigorated Well Society and CEO, Im actually quite excited to see how it all plays out next season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, Great Balls of Shire said: I dare say you had people in mind with your " sanctimonious pricks" comment...you were out of line , calling any fellow fans that . Strikes me you will try and justify it till the cows come home , so I'll leave you to it. That's me told. I must remember that I cannot conceive of any other fan of Motherwell to be anything other than a saint, and purely because they support the same team as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Balls of Shire Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 9 minutes ago, wellfan said: That's me told. I must remember that I cannot conceive of any other fan of Motherwell to be anything other than a saint, and purely because they support the same team as me. Like I said crack on justifying it. I'll leave you to it . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said: With the re-structuring off the field and the potential for additional investment off it, or at least a re-invigorated Well Society and CEO, Im actually quite excited to see how it all plays out next season. Absolutely this. Someone over on P&B called this "the most interim season ever"; I think that sums things up really well. The fact we've been safe since effectively just before the split, have unearthed a gem in Bair and are looking at a real prospect in Miller, means it's definitely erring more on being a success, despite the turgid mid-season period. There's been a lot of resetting done both on and off the pitch and Kettlewell should take at least some credit for getting rid of players who just weren't good enough; a significant number of them youngsters who our previous manager when he was Head of Youth Development... didn't develop. Granted, he signed Wilkinson and punted him within 6 months, but him not fancying it up here isn't SK's fault. Obika should never have been given another deal based on his injury history, either. We now have a new (and experienced/accomplished) CEO, prospective new investment from someone who at least appears to "get" the club and the fan ownership model and a reinvigorated Well Society. One thing I will say on the WS front; in the next month(s) I'm hoping to see more from there outside social media posts of brainstorming sessions (although as I've said before; I'm not a member so don't receive any e-mails from them, so there may have been other communications sent I'm not aware of). I realise there's been a lot going on with the investment discussions etc. that will no doubt have taken up a bit of time, but there will come a point when I need to start to see something more substantial to believe the reinvigorated messages we've seen thus far to make me commit to taking up membership. Edit: apologies, that strayed quite a bit off topic! 😬 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergie79 Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 Last pre season was a huge learning curve for what transfer targets he can realistically aim and plan for....I am sure he is lucky if he got any of his first or second choice targets last season and was basically scrambling at the end to see who would actually come here hence we end up with last minute signings like Shaw. I expect this pre season SK will be much better prepared and will have been planning accordingly for the last few months and had the chance to sound out potential targets that he wouldn't have been able to do last season. This pre season we can find out how good he really is...or how bad... A huge pre season ahead but SK more than deserves to be here to do it and fingers crossed it works out as every signing at our level is a gamble. For me there is not much to dislike about SK's performance in his first full season other than the poor run and poor goals against, he sorts out the defence and replaces Spittal and potentially Bair well then he is the right person to take us into next season and top 6 certainly achievable. He has never lost the dressing room and we still play decent attacking football given the number of goals we have scored. Off the pitch seeing what happens with investors is going to only be a bonus if extra money and public exposure comes to the club..... interesting times ahead but should all be positive just now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 5 hours ago, wellfan said: However, any club with such a race-to-the-bottom mentality as its minimum target for its manager will continue to tread water and achieve nothing other than an annual shit fight for 10th. No, any club that sets a top-six finish as a "bare minimum" when, like it or not, we're operating on a bottom-six budget will continue to fall short of those demands fairly often and see the manager and coaching team constantly changed, which does nothing to help us progress. That said, "bare minimum" doesn't mean the manager is invincible—far from it. What it means is that we're not speculating with our financial outlay, and we're making sure that if the bare minimum is what we accomplish, we won't be facing financial ruin. In the previous five years, we've finished in the top six two times, which is a 40% success rate, so we're doing not too badly. And to think that 40% was attained by two managers who the usual suspects on here lambasted during their time at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 I think it's sensible to budget for the worst case scenario financially which is tenth. Personally as a supporter I want to see Motherwell avoid relegation every year. Of course I'd love to see us top six every year but we don't do things the easy way - so safety first and anything else is a bonus. I don't think budgeting for tenth needs to turn into a lack of ambition because surely that's been our budget position for some time now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, David said: No, any club that sets a top-six finish as a "bare minimum" when, like it or not, we're operating on a bottom-six budget will continue to fall short of those demands fairly often and see the manager and coaching team constantly changed, which does nothing to help us progress. The most recent accounts show spending us £8 million pounds in season 22/23. St Mirren's accounts show they spent £6.3m. Kilmarnock's accounts show £7.5 million. It will be different this season but not hugely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 3 hours ago, steelboy said: The most recent accounts show spending us £8 million pounds in season 22/23. St Mirren's accounts show they spent £6.3m. Kilmarnock's accounts show £7.5 million. It will be different this season but not hugely. And I wouldn't think Kilmarnock or St Mirren should be placing a "top six as a bare minimum" condition on their manager either. For me, the following clubs in Scotland are the ones who should be setting a "top six minimum" condition on their managers: Hearts Hibs Aberdeen Dundee United The likes of us, Kilmarnock, St Mirren, Dundee etc should be aiming for top six absolutely, and especially if any of those clubs falter, which often happens, but it should not be considered a "bare minimum." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 Just now, David said: And I wouldn't think Kilmarnock or St Mirren should be placing a "top six as a bare minimum" condition on their manager either. For me, the following clubs in Scotland are the ones who should be setting a "top six minimum" condition on their managers: Hearts Hibs Aberdeen Dundee United The likes of us, Kilmarnock, St Mirren, Dundee etc should be aiming for top six absolutely, and especially if any of those clubs falter, which often happens, but it should not be considered a "bare minimum." To be fair I think the only folk who put the top six pressure on our manager are folk on fans forums. Interesting that you've put Dundee Utd on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 Dundee United, while insanely managed at the moment, are a big Scottish club with a top six budget I'd reckon. They should be up there or thereabouts most seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 6 hours ago, David said: No, any club that sets a top-six finish as a "bare minimum" when, like it or not, we're operating on a bottom-six budget will continue to fall short of those demands fairly often and see the manager and coaching team constantly changed, which does nothing to help us progress. No, that's not what I wrote, and you've chosen to critique the top 6 comment in isolation, like others have done. I wrote: "Top six and, more so, a good cup run should be the absolute minimum targets set each season for the manager". The clue is in my adding the "more so" meaning I regard the cup run as being the most realistic and reasonable of minimums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 13 Report Share Posted May 13 50 minutes ago, wellfan said: No, that's not what I wrote, and you've chosen to critique the top 6 comment in isolation, like others have done. I wrote: "Top six and, more so, a good cup run should be the absolute minimum targets set each season for the manager". The clue is in my adding the "more so" meaning I regard the cup run as being the most realistic and reasonable of minimums. Ah, okay. So you not only want a top six finish as a minimum requirement, but also a cup run. A cup run, as others have said, is a bit of a lottery. We can't really rely on that as a minimum target. Just the same as we can't rely on a top six finish as a minimum requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 8 hours ago, David said: Ah, okay. So you not only want a top six finish as a minimum requirement, but also a cup run. A cup run, as others have said, is a bit of a lottery. We can't really rely on that as a minimum target. Just the same as we can't rely on a top six finish as a minimum requirement. And that's just your opinion which, as I've argued elsewhere, represents a pessimistic outlook that will only see us standing still at best or slowly falling behind over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 4 hours ago, wellfan said: And that's just your opinion which, as I've argued elsewhere, represents a pessimistic outlook that will only see us standing still at best or slowly falling behind over time. Have you ever watched a cup draw? It's quite literally a lottery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 22 hours ago, David said: No, any club that sets a top-six finish as a "bare minimum" when, like it or not, we're operating on a bottom-six budget will continue to fall short of those demands fairly often and see the manager and coaching team constantly changed, which does nothing to help us progress. That said, "bare minimum" doesn't mean the manager is invincible—far from it. What it means is that we're not speculating with our financial outlay, and we're making sure that if the bare minimum is what we accomplish, we won't be facing financial ruin. In the previous five years, we've finished in the top six two times, which is a 40% success rate, so we're doing not too badly. And to think that 40% was attained by two managers who the usual suspects on here lambasted during their time at the club. Over the last twenty years we've been top 6 nine times and 7th twice. So on a good season we've got every chance of being sixth. But there's always the chance we might just miss out. And that for me just shows that unless a club is sitting in fifth or sixth place with no prospect of being caught then there's always going to be a few teams in contention for the last spot. Its a tight league and tbh unless we get a decent amount of investment into the club then I don't see how top six every season is feasible. We have a relatively small fan base. We are fan owned. This season we blew it for ourselves re top six. But we also had a squad with a lot of injuries. Players being recalled from loan spells. I don't think top six is an unrealistic goal to set, but I just don't see how it can be a minimum one unless we suddenly have a lot more money to spend and can compete with the teams above us in the transfer market. Killie are sitting fourth and could offer Van Veen 10k a week and we couldn't (no regrets over that). It's not an even playing field and surely that has to be a consideration when setting targets. I'd rather be a club that backed a manager who didn't get top six than have a revolving door of management like Hibs have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 2 hours ago, wellgirl said: Killie are sitting fourth and could offer Van Veen 10k a week and we couldn't (no regrets over that). It's not an even playing field and surely that has to be a consideration when setting targets. I'd rather be a club that backed a manager who didn't get top six than have a revolving door of management like Hibs have. Not strictly true re Kilmarnock, Billy Bowie the owner/ majority shareholder or whatever he is, was paying over 6k of KVv's wages out of his own pocket, Killie were only paying the other 3 or 4k, which is probably on a par with what we could offer, but considering the impact KVV had it was a huge waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinjy Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 Season 23/24 nearly over and it has been a bit of a meh season. Nothing to get excited about, out of the cups early, never looking like getting top six and safe from relegation with three games to go.. The usual suspects on here decrying the manager and their favoured fall guys. Kettlewell is stuck on 5-3-2 and only changes this when we are chasing the game and he puts on a load of forwards. The lack of wide players in the squad means we are relying on wing backs to get forward. This puts a lot on them and often they get subbed off and replaced like for like. He has had to deal with an excessive amount of injuries to important players. McGinn 6 games, Casey 9 games, Slattery missed last five months of the season, Miller 12 games, Obika all season, Paton 8 games Blaney 5 games, Butcher 14 games. Bieruth 6 games. Add to that the recall of Bieruth and Spencer. Recruitment has on the whole been good. Negatives Wilkinson, Obika, Shaw, and Halliday. Positives Bieruth, Bair, Spencer, Paton, Gent, Vale. Ok Nicholson and Devine. Kettlewell has improved players. Bair, Spittal, Miller and Gent especially with loanees being recalled after their clubs recognised their improvement after successful spells. He appears to be a good motivator as despite the long run without a win the players stuck with him. How many times did we score late goals to get a draw or a win? God knows how he keeps them interested as his team talks must last ages if his interviews are anything to go by. Despite losing Van Veen we are the third top scorers in the league. Problems are clearly in defence and he hasn't managed to sort that out. Big summer ahead. Recruitment needs to be good again and he needs to find a couple of diamonds to improve us. I saw my first game over sixty years ago and I will be back next year to support the team and the manager. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 8 minutes ago, sinjy said: Season 23/24 nearly over and it has been a bit of a meh season. Nothing to get excited about, out of the cups early, never looking like getting top six and safe from relegation with three games to go.. The usual suspects on here decrying the manager and their favoured fall guys. Kettlewell is stuck on 5-3-2 and only changes this when we are chasing the game and he puts on a load of forwards. The lack of wide players in the squad means we are relying on wing backs to get forward. This puts a lot on them and often they get subbed off and replaced like for like. He has had to deal with an excessive amount of injuries to important players. McGinn 6 games, Casey 9 games, Slattery missed last five months of the season, Miller 12 games, Obika all season, Paton 8 games Blaney 5 games, Butcher 14 games. Bieruth 6 games. Add to that the recall of Bieruth and Spencer. Recruitment has on the whole been good. Negatives Wilkinson, Obika, Shaw, and Halliday. Positives Bieruth, Bair, Spencer, Paton, Gent, Vale. Ok Nicholson and Devine. Kettlewell has improved players. Bair, Spittal, Miller and Gent especially with loanees being recalled after their clubs recognised their improvement after successful spells. He appears to be a good motivator as despite the long run without a win the players stuck with him. How many times did we score late goals to get a draw or a win? God knows how he keeps them interested as his team talks must last ages if his interviews are anything to go by. Despite losing Van Veen we are the third top scorers in the league. Problems are clearly in defence and he hasn't managed to sort that out. Big summer ahead. Recruitment needs to be good again and he needs to find a couple of diamonds to improve us. I saw my first game over sixty years ago and I will be back next year to support the team and the manager. Obika hasn't missed all season. He's made ten appearances and scored an equaliser at Celtic Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 A very good summing up Sinjy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 2 hours ago, wellgirl said: Obika hasn't missed all season. He's made ten appearances and scored an equaliser at Celtic Park. Just feels like he's missed all season. Certainly not a successful re-signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 5 hours ago, wellgirl said: Obika hasn't missed all season. He's made ten appearances and scored an equaliser at Celtic Park. Out of those ten appearances the only one anyone knew he was playing was the goal against Celtic, he's right up there with Peter Brady. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 41 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: he's right up there with Peter Brady. But who got through more bandages? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.