2023/24 ins & outs discussion

[weeyin]

13 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I am more annoyed with Hammell he didn’t start him and loaned him out to Cove when there was clearly no need he was good enough to feature for our first team.

Not completely convinced about that.

He was ready to start when we ended the loan, but there is a good argument that playing a few months at Cove was what got him to that point.

[mfc]

Just now, weeyin said:

Not completely convinced about that.

He was ready to start when we ended the loan, but there is a good argument that playing a few months at Cove was what got him to that point.

I agree with that,I think loaning him out for a few months made sense, especially with o'donnell and mcginn in front of him at that point.if hammell had stayed I personally don't think we would have seen much of max and if he did play he would have been hung out to dry in a 4 at the back.the bigger picture is we looked completely doomed at one point,we changed manager who then switched formations and max revelled in it,were just unfortunate that he's going to leave so soon but he played his part in the clubs survival this season.its upto the people at the club to find someone else,I just hope we're looking at keeping the idea of playing with attacking full backs,both max and furlong were excellent at that last season.

[GazzyB]

4 hours ago, gaz7 said:

The more I read and hear on max johnston the more disappointed I am with the situation. 

He's been here since he was 12 we have obviously looked after him and at 19 he just fuks off after 17 games and some decent performances. 

Yes he's got to look after himself as has everyone but it looks like he does not care one bit for the club that has ultimately helped shape him.

Same as hastie and to lesser extent cadden unfortunately. 

He’s made 17? appearances for us, he owes us absolutely fuck all.

 

What about all the youngsters that join us when they are twelve and get booted when they are 17/18, do we owe them too? Or does it just work one way?

[Spiderpig]

9 hours ago, gaz7 said:

The more I read and hear on max johnston the more disappointed I am with the situation. 

He's been here since he was 12 we have obviously looked after him and at 19 he just fuks off after 17 games and some decent performances. 

Yes he's got to look after himself as has everyone but it looks like he does not care one bit for the club that has ultimately helped shape him.

Same as hastie and to lesser extent cadden unfortunately. 

What do you expect Johnston to do FFS Motherwell have looked after me since I was 12 so I better not move away and take the no doubt life changing cash he's potentially been offered.

A chance to get regular match time, play at a higher level. Maybe in a new country, earning a wage that might set him up for life, aye its a tough decision.

All this club loyalty pish is ancient history,  footballers are like any other workers they follow the money if they get the chance. The loyal ones are usually those those who are not good enough to get regular game time or attract transfer offers and stay loyal right up to the point they get released.

[gaz7]

4 hours ago, GazzyB said:

He’s made 17? appearances for us, he owes us absolutely fuck all.

 

What about all the youngsters that join us when they are twelve and get booted when they are 17/18, do we owe them too? Or does it just work one way?

Disagree gazzy . Anyone in any industry looks after themselves 1st obviously but if max is as sure of himself as all the targeted media about himself then he could have signed a deal like turnbull did for example. I'll caveat that with saying I appreciate everyone's different and I don't know ins and outs.

I will be delighted for him as a young ex well playinh scotsman if he goes on to do like allan campbell or lewis ferguson .

As for all those that get put out at 17/18 I'm sure the club never promise any of them they will be next Ronaldo and I'm very aware of how it affects people and yes the club will be should be managing this I'd hope in a correct manner.

[gaz7]

23 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

What do you expect Johnston to do FFS Motherwell have looked after me since I was 12 so I better not move away and take the no doubt life changing cash he's potentially been offered.

A chance to get regular match time, play at a higher level. Maybe in a new country, earning a wage that might set him up for life, aye its a tough decision.

All this club loyalty pish is ancient history,  footballers are like any other workers they follow the money if they get the chance. The loyal ones are usually those those who are not good enough to get regular game time or attract transfer offers and stay loyal right up to the point they get released.

If you think what's happened is good and acceptable for good of our club then we will agree to differ.

Your 2nd point I am 100% on board with as I said in previous post it's great to see young scottish boys kick on.

3rd point and yes loyalty in a sense cannot be put in front of betterment to yourself however in any walk of life there's different ways of doing things.

[Onthefringes]

2 hours ago, gaz7 said:

Disagree gazzy . Anyone in any industry looks after themselves 1st obviously but if max is as sure of himself as all the targeted media about himself then he could have signed a deal like turnbull did for example. I'll caveat that with saying I appreciate everyone's different and I don't know ins and outs.

Discussed at length before, David Turnbull signed a deal for David Turnbull. The revisionism is disingenuous.

It happened to work to the benefit of the club. Not every renewal does.

[yosemite sam]

14 hours ago, mfc said:

500k plus add ons for van veen according to sky

The manager said it would have to be "life changing money" to get him. What's life changing about 500k, nothing.

Surely have to be more than that, if not we should have kept him.  Whose going to get us 29 goals next season?

[Great Balls of Shire]

1 hour ago, Onthefringes said:

Discussed at length before, David Turnbull signed a deal for David Turnbull. The revisionism is disingenuous.

It happened to work to the benefit of the club. Not every renewal does.

If he knew he was getting transferred anyway, he didn't sign for himself, he could have run his contract down , as with Jake Hastie and left for nothing.

He helped us out to the tune of 3 million and then some bloke on the internet want to put a different spin on it 

[David]

13 hours ago, thewelllfan said:

theres nothing wrong with Kelly would just rather take the cash from his sale and get in a new goalkeeper. THe scouting department surley cant do worse than Chapman

That's an insane line of thinking, by the way. 

Sell a very good goalkeeper, who's one of the top three Scottish keepers around just now and hope that we can get someone else in who "isn't worse than Chapman."

I notice you seem happy to keep Oxborough, despite him not having played a single game for us, and having played less than 50 games in his entire career at the age of 25. 

[Onthefringes]

2 hours ago, gaz7 said:

If you think what's happened is good and acceptable for good of our club then we will agree to differ.

Your 2nd point I am 100% on board with as I said in previous post it's great to see young scottish boys kick on.

3rd point and yes loyalty in a sense cannot be put in front of betterment to yourself however in any walk of life there's different ways of doing things.

What’s happened is good and acceptable for good of our club? Expansive question.

Lots of variables, nature of the subject and a system that means not everything would be good and acceptable to our club or have options not to be explored?

Could as easily be the actions of the club that the player and his representatives think they would be better served exploring said options.

Different way of doing things. Definitely, big difference in exploring options and throwing toys out of their pram to get their wish.

[Spiderpig]

7 minutes ago, yosemite sam said:

 

Surely have to be more than that, if not we should have kept him.  Whose going to get us 29 goals next season?

It's an absolute certainty that if KVV  stays and he does not want to by all accounts he won't score 29 goals again next season, he will score a few but last season was a one off.

Plus he will be out of contract and will walk away for nothing so the club had to cash in now. All the chat, myself included about a minimum of £1 million plus is fantasy and if there is only 1 club interested and that's their offer then there is not a lot the club can do, getting £500 k pus add ons is a lot better than nothing next year.

[weeyin]

15 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

It's an absolute certainty that if KVV  stays and he does not want to by all accounts he won't score 29 goals again next season, he will score a few but last season was a one off.

Agree with that and will also be surprised if he reaches 15 next season at his new club. Higdon has the best tally in recent times managing 14 in the season after he was top scorer with us.

Moult managed 2, Sutton managed 3 the first time he left us and 1 the second time he left us. Tommy Coyne managed 1 in the season after he left us.

Wullie P managed 12 league goals with Utd in his first season, but did manage another 8 in cup competitions. Which again just shows how good he was.

[Onthefringes]

35 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

If he knew he was getting transferred anyway, he didn't sign for himself, he could have run his contract down , as with Jake Hastie and left for nothing.

He helped us out to the tune of 3 million and then some bloke on the internet want to put a different spin on it 

Nae bother. He could’ve done, but, the injury concern doesn’t fit the narrative.

Players signs for the benefit of the club said no player, ever. Not me with the issue though.

As I mentioned, it worked to our benefit.

Perhaps reading what was said rather than who said it would help.

 

[David]

Just now, Spiderpig said:

It's an absolute certainty that if KVV  stays and he does not want to by all accounts he won't score 29 goals again next season, he will score a few but last season was a one off.

A lot of fans are overlooking the fact that last season was somewhat of an anomaly for Van Veen. The most goals he's scored in a season outwith last year was 24, and that was in the 4th tier of Dutch football almost ten years ago.

Since then his best has been 16 & 15 in a season.

He's clearly hit a purple patch of a season, and he has every right to want to ride the wave of that into a lucrative and probably unexpected contract. And let's be honest, when he scored 11 goals for us the season before last we'd have snapped up £500k with add-ons without a second thought.

[MJC]

15 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

 Don’t see him being transferred again 

I don’t know. I’m sure KvV and his agent will be well aware that if for some reason this move doesn’t work out or he suffers a similar misfortune that Moult did with injuries then we will give him a deal. 
 

I can just picture it now. August 2025, we are short of striker options and KvV has been touted for a return despite being out injured for months. Every post on the clubs Twitter is replied to with #announcevanVeen. Then finally a video is released, filmed from the top floor of Glassford Tower looking towards Fir Park. We then see a KLM plane is descending towards Glasgow as the tune of “Tulips from Amsterdam” plays over it. Then finally we see what we’ve all been waiting for. It’s the Fir Park pitch with a 34 year old KvV standing there in a Well top and a pair of crutches. The fanboys go wild.

[santheman]

We're all assuming that a random post on the Internet is accurate.

Nobody knows what's been offered except the club.

 

[texanwellfan]

10 minutes ago, santheman said:

We're all assuming that a random post on the Internet is accurate.

Nobody knows what's been offered except the club.

 

Killjoy! 

[David]

Just now, santheman said:

We're all assuming that a random post on the Internet is accurate.

Nobody knows what's been offered except the club.

At this time of the summer, speculation is all we have. 

[thewelllfan]

4 hours ago, David said:

That's an insane line of thinking, by the way. 

Sell a very good goalkeeper, who's one of the top three Scottish keepers around just now and hope that we can get someone else in who "isn't worse than Chapman."

I notice you seem happy to keep Oxborough, despite him not having played a single game for us, and having played less than 50 games in his entire career at the age of 25. 

I'd keep the back up goalie as it would be pointless to let him go?

As for Kelly he's a good shot-stopper not disputing that but if a decent fee came in I'd 100% let him go hes not irreplaceable for us the way KVV will be or Campbell has been.

Every signing we make there's no guarantee will work hence why I prefer when we bring in younger players and move them on for a fee as it attracts other good young players to Motherwell we are never going to retain a quality player for more than 2 years unfortunatley so its amount maxamising the fee we can get for each and every player.

[pretzel]

20 minutes ago, thewelllfan said:

As for Kelly he's a good shot-stopper not disputing that but if a decent fee came in I'd 100% let him go hes not irreplaceable for us the way KVV will be or Campbell has been.

If an offer came in that the club couldn't refuse obviously he would be on his way, but you just need to look at Dundee United who lost a decent keeper at the start of the season and replaced him with someone who was absolutely bowfin and cost them some precious points. 

[thewelllfan]

18 minutes ago, pretzel said:

If an offer came in that the club couldn't refuse obviously he would be on his way, but you just need to look at Dundee United who lost a decent keeper at the start of the season and replaced him with someone who was absolutely bowfin and cost them some precious points. 

Fair enough personally don't think our recruitment in that position is remotely similar to theirs we sign keepers from League 1 + 2 with a fair whack of experience usually only exception recently was Randolph

[Wellfan1984]

12 minutes ago, thewelllfan said:

Fair enough personally don't think our recruitment in that position is remotely similar to theirs we sign keepers from League 1 + 2 with a fair whack of experience usually only exception recently was Randolph

The keeper United signed was A League Keeper of the Year.  The A League is not a great level but in general it's better than English League 1 and 2.  

[steelboy]

8 minutes ago, Wellfan1984 said:

The keeper United signed was A League Keeper of the Year.  The A League is not a great level but in general it's better than English League 1 and 2.  

Guy was just depressed he moved from Oz to Dundee. 

 

[thewelllfan]

46 minutes ago, Wellfan1984 said:

The keeper United signed was A League Keeper of the Year.  The A League is not a great level but in general it's better than English League 1 and 2.  

The A-League makes Jason Cummings look a good player should not be shopping in it at all