2023/24 ins & outs discussion

[MelvinBragg]

18 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

Seems we're being linked to a teenaged Canadian defender named James Cameron who currently plays for Vancouver.

When I heard us linked with James Cameron, I assumed it was to direct our next social media movie...

[David]

Just now, bobbybingo said:

Yeah, I know you think certain players aren't fit to play professional football. How's that going?

It hasn't changed much really. I said before a ball was kicked that I reckoned he'd get us around 4-5 goals this season. He's played a couple of good games, and hopefully he kicks on from that. I doubt he will, but you never know. 

From almost the start of the season until the Livi game he looked like someone who tries really hard but doesn't actually accomplish much. And that's in a terrible team. 

But again, hopefully he confounds all the stats and miraculously becomes a footballer at the age of 24.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, David said:

It hasn't changed much really. I said before a ball was kicked that I reckoned he'd get us around 4-5 goals this season. He's played a couple of good games, and hopefully he kicks on from that. I doubt he will, but you never know. 

From almost the start of the season until the Livi game he looked like someone who tries really hard but doesn't actually accomplish much. And that's in a terrible team. 

But again, hopefully he confounds all the stats and miraculously becomes a footballer at the age of 24.

As someone who was similarly critical of Bairs signing (more so the length of contract than the actual taking a punt on him) Im more than happy to put my hands up and say he has proved me wrong already.

Is he the level of striker we should be looking at as a first team pick? Probably not.

Is he a decent squad level player who will chip in a number of goals and assists off the bench or during an injury crisis? Absolutely.

He has 5 goals and a number of assists in half a season, where he has had limited game time in a team that couldnt buy a win in 3 months.

If we can strengthen the squad and get some consistency of performance/results and confidence within the squad grows, he will do ok.

If we are seriously interested in Main though, he would be behind him so we should be looking to move on Obika and Shaw.

Edit: Whether you rate Bair or not, he has proven he is clearly better than Canadian semi-pro level. So a little credit shouldnt be too hard to offer his way.

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 hour ago, MelvinBragg said:

When I heard us linked with James Cameron, I assumed it was to direct our next social media movie...

You will be seeing Grizzly shortly he does the jokes 😂😂

[bobbybingo]

1 hour ago, David said:

It hasn't changed much really. I said before a ball was kicked that I reckoned he'd get us around 4-5 goals this season. He's played a couple of good games, and hopefully he kicks on from that. I doubt he will, but you never know. 

From almost the start of the season until the Livi game he looked like someone who tries really hard but doesn't actually accomplish much. And that's in a terrible team. 

But again, hopefully he confounds all the stats and miraculously becomes a footballer at the age of 24.

I'd be interested to know what stats suggest he is not a footballer.

[wellsince75]

14 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

I'd be interested to know what stats suggest he is not a footballer.

think most 23 year old strikers have double figures in terms of total career goals scored. 

No-one is doubting Bairs effort and he's clearly in a purple patch. I know this isn't popular to say at the moment but he's not a natural goal scorer, positioning, awareness etc just aren't there.   BUT he's a hard worker , gives it all and going through a good patch so fair credit to the lad. 
 

[bobbybingo]

11 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

think most 23 year old strikers have double figures in terms of total career goals scored. 

No-one is doubting Bairs effort and he's clearly in a purple patch. I know this isn't popular to say at the moment but he's not a natural goal scorer, positioning, awareness etc just aren't there.   BUT he's a hard worker , gives it all and going through a good patch so fair credit to the lad. 
 

Took him to 24, but he's into double figures now. We'll all have our opinion on how good he is, same as every other player we sign, absolutely no issues with that. Stats may prove he's not the greatest striker to grace Fir Park - they also show only 10 guys have scored more goals than him so far this season. They certainly don't suggest he's incapable of playing above amateur level or isn't good enough to be regarded as a footballer. 

[Well-Made]

17 hours ago, fizoxy said:

Where's this Watt chat coming from? Is it just common sense because he's in danger of spending a full season somewhere, which would be weird for him?

I like Penney, but does he not hate Scotland?

 

New next door neighbour is a Utd fan and that's the rumour he is hearing as well.

[grizzlyg]

3 hours ago, MelvinBragg said:

When I heard us linked with James Cameron, I assumed it was to direct our next social media movie...

Apparently he suggested changing last line of video to ..."Say....gonna lend us a nickel" 🤣🤣

[wellsince75]

1 hour ago, bobbybingo said:

Took him to 24, but he's into double figures now. We'll all have our opinion on how good he is, same as every other player we sign, absolutely no issues with that. Stats may prove he's not the greatest striker to grace Fir Park - they also show only 10 guys have scored more goals than him so far this season. They certainly don't suggest he's incapable of playing above amateur level or isn't good enough to be regarded as a footballer. 

completely on board re comments re being amateur level or not being regarded as a footballer.  No need for anyone to be be rude about any of our players.  
 

[David]

1 hour ago, bobbybingo said:

I'd be interested to know what stats suggest he is not a footballer.

Okay, a footballer at the level we should be signing and playing. 

I feel many think he's done relatively well based on the fact that the bar was so low with him to begin with. 

Basically, he's done okay-ish in possibly the worst Motherwell team I've seen in many a year. If that's good enough for you then that's perfectly fine. I still don't rate him, and definitely not enough to warrant a two-year contract. It'll take more than two or so games where he looks decent to change my mind on that front.

[Great Balls of Shire]

1 hour ago, wellsince75 said:

think most 23 year old strikers have double figures in terms of total career goals scored. 

No-one is doubting Bairs effort and he's clearly in a purple patch. I know this isn't popular to say at the moment but he's not a natural goal scorer, positioning, awareness etc just aren't there.   BUT he's a hard worker , gives it all and going through a good patch so fair credit to the lad. 
 

I think where to be when ball comes in box etc can be taught, the guy has pace and strength, not things that can be taught, tbh, that was obvious from the off...think it's a bit churlish now to not acknowledge he has something about him especially after the pelters he took before kicking a ball

[wellsince75]

19 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I think where to be when ball comes in box etc can be taught, the guy has pace and strength, not things that can be taught, tbh, that was obvious from the off...think it's a bit churlish now to not acknowledge he has something about him especially after the pelters he took before kicking a ball

All I said is I don't think he's a natural goal scorer - there's a huge difference between how he vs Mika reads the game and get's onto the final ball.   I'm not poo pooing the guy. 

He's a physical, hard working lad, scored a cracker of a goal the other week and every game he works his socks off. Genuinely didn't mean to come across as churlish, he's added value in recent games and been better than others on our books.   

[bobbybingo]

23 minutes ago, David said:

Okay, a footballer at the level we should be signing and playing. 

I feel many think he's done relatively well based on the fact that the bar was so low with him to begin with. 

Basically, he's done okay-ish in possibly the worst Motherwell team I've seen in many a year. If that's good enough for you then that's perfectly fine. I still don't rate him, and definitely not enough to warrant a two-year contract. It'll take more than two or so games where he looks decent to change my mind on that front.

As I said, I've no problem with anyone thinking certain players aren't good enough for us, far better than Bair have had that accusation thrown at them. It's the amateur stuff I can't agree with.

Ideally, we'd be signing higher quality all over the park, but we are where we are these days, and we're not on our lonesome. Bair being so high up the scoring charts proves that.

[Yassin]

4 hours ago, David said:

It hasn't changed much really. I said before a ball was kicked that I reckoned he'd get us around 4-5 goals this season. He's played a couple of good games, and hopefully he kicks on from that. I doubt he will, but you never know. 

I rate Bair more than you do but think you've been pretty reasoned and fair about your view on him. Do find the way this has been worded a little odd though. He'd already scored 5 by the 2nd of January, its obviously entirely possible he doesn't score another goal this season but he's already been about twice as productive as you had predicted so far.

[Great Balls of Shire]

Just now, wellsince75 said:

All I said is I don't think he's a natural goal scorer - there's a huge difference between how he vs Mika reads the game and get's onto the final ball.   I'm not poo pooing the guy. 

He's a physical, hard working lad, scored a cracker of a goal the other week and every game he works his socks off. Genuinely didn't mean to come across as churlish, he's added value in recent games and been better than others on our books.   

Honestly Wasn't  having a pop at yourself bud, more of a general comment, there was a lot of comment around the guy before he had kicked a ball, 

If olly Shaw can earn a living as a pro footballer, bair is much more effective imo

Similar theme but different, just watched the guy Oakley ( Morton) and his hat trick v Dundee utd, he looks useful...again it could be a one off or a three off if you like

[steelboy]

3 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

 

Similar theme but different, just watched the guy Oakley ( Morton) and his hat trick v Dundee utd, he looks useful...again it could be a one off or a three off if you like

Oakley is a decent finisher and is worth taking a chance on. Ruari Paton at Queen's Park and Bruce Anderson from Livi are both decent players we should be taking a look at.

We need a right back in this window so I'd be asking Rangers about Adam Devine on loan. He's been solid when he's appeared in their first team and for Scotland u21s.

[FirParkCornerExile]

1 hour ago, Well-Made said:

New next door neighbour is a Utd fan and that's the rumour he is hearing as well.

I think it's all hot air or I hope so he's a mercenary using cunt whose not worth the money.

[David]

48 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

As I said, I've no problem with anyone thinking certain players aren't good enough for us, far better than Bair have had that accusation thrown at them. It's the amateur stuff I can't agree with.

Ideally, we'd be signing higher quality all over the park, but we are where we are these days, and we're not on our lonesome. Bair being so high up the scoring charts proves that.

I think if you look at his record to now, the amateur accusation is perfectly valid. 

He played for a largely terrible Vancouver Whitecaps side that finished 23rd & 17th overall in the two seasons he played double figures for them. He managed three goals in three seasons.

He then moved on to HamKam in the Norwegian 2nd tier, where he hit four goals in 17 games. 

At St Johnstone he scored 1 goal in 33 games. 

Now, I understand everyone is getting all giddy because he scored two against Livi and got another against Hibs, but as I said, it'll take more than a wee purple patch of a couple of decent games to really change my mind. 

And again, I hope he does. If he goes on to repeat those performances and manages to grab another two or three goals then I'll be a happy camper. 

But you're right, we are where we are. And so long as we continue to sign players largely based on "gut instincts" and having a checklist that consists of him being "an honest professional" and "running his socks off" we likely won't see much improvement.

47 minutes ago, Yassin said:

I rate Bair more than you do but think you've been pretty reasoned and fair about your view on him. Do find the way this has been worded a little odd though. He'd already scored 5 by the 2nd of January, its obviously entirely possible he doesn't score another goal this season but he's already been about twice as productive as you had predicted so far.

Well, I said that his stats and career average suggested anywhere between 3-5 goals for us. So, he's hit that. Hopefully he can do above average numbers for us.

He's been a halfway decent player, who has done more than the extremely low bar we all set for him, in a very poor Motherwell team. Credit where it's due I guess?

[bobbybingo]

45 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I think it's all hot air or I hope so he's a mercenary using cunt whose not worth the money.

Moult's injured. No idea how long for, but surely they won't be letting Watt go anywhere just now unless they're skint.

[Mad Dog]

27 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Moult's injured. No idea how long for, but surely they won't be letting Watt go anywhere just now unless they're skint.

Well they randomly loaned him out to St. Mirren last season despite being in a relegation dogfight and needing goals at the time so anything is possible.

[Stevie73]

Everyone is signing or even being linked with people, nothing from us, a wee bit worrying, moving a lot out but zero in.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, David said:

I think if you look at his record to now, the amateur accusation is perfectly valid. 

He played for a largely terrible Vancouver Whitecaps side that finished 23rd & 17th overall in the two seasons he played double figures for them. He managed three goals in three seasons.

He then moved on to HamKam in the Norwegian 2nd tier, where he hit four goals in 17 games. 

At St Johnstone he scored 1 goal in 33 games. 

Now, I understand everyone is getting all giddy because he scored two against Livi and got another against Hibs, but as I said, it'll take more than a wee purple patch of a couple of decent games to really change my mind. 

And again, I hope he does. If he goes on to repeat those performances and manages to grab another two or three goals then I'll be a happy camper. 

But you're right, we are where we are. And so long as we continue to sign players largely based on "gut instincts" and having a checklist that consists of him being "an honest professional" and "running his socks off" we likely won't see much improvement.

Well, I said that his stats and career average suggested anywhere between 3-5 goals for us. So, he's hit that. Hopefully he can do above average numbers for us.

He's been a halfway decent player, who has done more than the extremely low bar we all set for him, in a very poor Motherwell team. Credit where it's due I guess?

I dont think anyone is getting giddy about him.

Just a few of us stating that he has done better than we thought he would.

Its not that hard to do.

[bobbybingo]

28 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Well they randomly loaned him out to St. Mirren last season despite being in a relegation dogfight and needing goals at the time so anything is possible.

They did, and it is, so maybe they'll repeat their mistake. 

[santheman]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

Oakley is a decent finisher and is worth taking a chance on. Ruari Paton at Queen's Park and Bruce Anderson from Livi are both decent players we should be taking a look at.

We need a right back in this window so I'd be asking Rangers about Adam Devine on loan. He's been solid when he's appeared in their first team and for Scotland u21s.

Anderson has apparently signed a PCA with Killie according to Livi fans.