Kmcalpin Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 No, failing to bring in KVV isn't a problem for me. Killie and to a very slightly lesser extent St Mirren offered silly money, if rumours are to be believed. We shouldn't even have contemplated matching that. FWIW, I never, at any time, thought it was realistic to land him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 42 minutes ago, Stevie73 said: How much do we make from Turnbull’s Cardiff transfer, could this not have funded Van Veen, that’s the gamble we should have taken to ensure survival. We're not getting anything from turnbulls transfer,we needed it to be a much bigger fee for us to get any cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 53 minutes ago, numpty said: If he can fool all our trained medical professionals into thinking he's injured, I know who I'd be letting go. If. He obviously didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterwood Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Any the older guys remember we got Francis Jeffers after the window in 2011? At one point £8 million striker. Got 1 in 10 for well but played well. Linked up well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, Kmcalpin said: No, failing to bring in KVV isn't a problem for me. Killie and to a very slightly lesser extent St Mirren offered silly money, if rumours are to be believed. We shouldn't even have contemplated matching that. FWIW, I never, at any time, thought it was realistic to land him. My thoughts are the same,we went as high as we could for van veen and it wasn't enough.i did say yesterday morning I hope we weren't putting all our eggs in one basket in terms of bringing him back and it looks like that's what we did,which is disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 No guarantee Van Veen was ever interested in coming back here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 5 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: But it grinds my gears when you get post after post calling the manager clueless, out out his depth etc. Pretty sure SK knows what we have isnt enough. Pretty sure he knows we need at least 1 more striker in and that he has been trying like fuck to get one, because Im pretty sure he knows his job depends on it. The thought that he has been sitting on his arse watching all this unfold and doing nothing is for the birds. We are where we are due to other clubs being able to outbid us for players and the boards reluctance to break our wage structure. You can argue all day long about the rights and wrongs of that, but its not down to Kettlewell. Similarly with the barbed comments about full backs. SK has been getting slaughtered for playing SOD at RWB and for having a lack of width in the team and no cover for Gent. It looks like he has addressed these issues, but because we havent got a striker in, suddenly we have too many full backs. Its not an either or. You can recognise both weaknesses in the team and try to address both. I get what you're saying. Whatever SK's weaknesses, and we all have them, are, I don't think lack of work ethic is one of them. However I quickly learned when younger, that despite what elders told me, hard work alone doesn't guarantee success. I agree that we needed to strengthen the wing back areas, but I think he's slightly overdone that, say by one wage? Now, I've no idea what wages/contributions we forked out to land them but surely if we had repurposed one wage to add to offers for strikers, that might have helped in attracting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterwood Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, mfc said: My thoughts are the same,we went as high as we could for van veen and it wasn't enough.i did say yesterday morning I hope we weren't putting all our eggs in one basket in terms of bringing him back and it looks like that's what we did,which is disappointing. So would you rather have 2 playable and inexperienced strikers and no option to change it via subs? Or rest strikers? Looks like as other options did not come to much. This was our last viable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretzel Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 5 minutes ago, robsterwood said: Any the older guys remember we got Francis Jeffers after the window in 2011? At one point £8 million striker. Got 1 in 10 for well but played well. Linked up well Yeah, he played great in the Scottish Cup Quarter Final Replay against Dundee United at Fir Park and scored in that game as well. We actually tried to sign his old team mate Danny Cadamateri but we were gazumpted at the last minute, as per. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretzel Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: No guarantee Van Veen was ever interested in coming back here. I think it was Graeme McGarry yesterday that said we were the players preferred destination but we were simply not willing to compete with the wage demands Killie and Midden were offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 2 Author Report Share Posted February 2 11 minutes ago, robsterwood said: Any the older guys remember we got Francis Jeffers after the window in 2011? At one point £8 million striker. Got 1 in 10 for well but played well. Linked up well He's 43 now, and last played for Accrington Stanley over ten years ago. Might be within our budget, actually. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, Kmcalpin said: I get what you're saying. Whatever SK's weaknesses, and we all have them, are, I don't think lack of work ethic is one of them. However I quickly learned when younger, that despite what elders told me, hard work alone doesn't guarantee success. I agree that we needed to strengthen the wing back areas, but I think he's slightly overdone that, say by one wage? Now, I've no idea what wages/contributions we forked out to land them but surely if we had repurposed one wage to add to offers for strikers, that might have helped in attracting one. Possibly. I probably wouldnt have signed both Elliot AND Devine, but Ive not seen either of them play so not sure what the plan is for them. I dont think that would have made the difference with KVV but it might have got one of our other targets through the door. The problem with that is we will never know. It also brings us back to the board. Neither Devine or Elliot will be on big money. Are we really saying that amount over the last 3 months of the season isnt worth a league placing or even worse, our SPL status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Just now, robsterwood said: So would you rather have 2 playable and inexperienced strikers and no option to change it via subs? Or rest strikers? Looks like as other options did not come to much. This was our last viable option. No I would rather we didn't sign a load of poor forwards in the summer,let half of them go and then have an even worse month trying to rectify it,it looks like we have went all out for van veen,been outbid with no back up plan in place when it failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Wellsince1976 said: Correct. Folk need to realise we`re skint. We had to get players out, before we could even make an approach for anyone. If they then don`t want to accept what wages we can afford, then it`s not the managers fault. It`s the Motherwell world we now live in folks. Depressing that Killie and St Mirren can out manouvre us finacially, but that`s the reality. Being Devils advocate , to say we couldnt afford his wages is patently untrue. The Well society are sitting on £650,000 that the club could have drawn down on. They shouldn't have needed to as the club have said they have money in the Bank. KVV would have been secured for around £150,000 but we chose not to go there. Folk can agree or disagree whether we should or shouldn't have. If the club had to pay £150,000 fine tomorrow or be closed down could they get £150,000 ? Of course they could. So I don't buy the "we couldn't afford it" line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 14 minutes ago, mfc said: My thoughts are the same,we went as high as we could for van veen and it wasn't enough.i did say yesterday morning I hope we weren't putting all our eggs in one basket in terms of bringing him back and it looks like that's what we did,which is disappointing. Interesting take. Miles from the truth right enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: Possibly. I probably wouldnt have signed both Elliot AND Devine, but Ive not seen either of them play so not sure what the plan is for them. I dont think that would have made the difference with KVV but it might have got one of our other targets through the door. The problem with that is we will never know. It also brings us back to the board. Neither Devine or Elliot will be on big money. Are we really saying that amount over the last 3 months of the season isnt worth a league placing or even worse, our SPL status? We're on the same page. I don't think Elliot will be be on a huge wage, but I don't really understand his signing. Given that he hasn't played for months, he'll be no quick fix, which is what I think we need right now. An undiscovered gem? Maybe. My fear is that if he turns out to be a real find in say 2 or 3 months time, then a St Mirren or Kilmarnock will come along and hoover him up in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: Being Devils advocate , to say we couldnt afford his wages is patently untrue. The Well society are sitting on £650,000 that the club could have drawn down on. They shouldn't have needed to as the club have said they have money in the Bank. KVV would have been secured for around £150,000 but we chose not to go there. Folk can agree or disagree whether we should or shouldn't have. If the club had to pay £150,000 fine tomorrow or be closed down could they get £150,000 ? Of course they could. So I don't buy the "we couldn't afford it" line. The back of a fag packet mathematics need to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Let's get some context on this ffs, I have no doubt that there were lots of strikers available none of which were experienced, prolific regular starters as they are not available in a January window and especially not for the money we can offer. I'm sure SK tried but the harsh reality is we're not an attractive proposition for some players especially financially. So the players we brought in are what we can afford people need to realise as a club we are feckin skint. The usual suspects are slagging off Vale without seeing him play, they probably did the same for Higdon, and KVV so let's wait and see how it turns out. Our defence is just about the worst in the league so we sign defenders and people are still not happy ffs. As I've said before and no apologies for repeating myself the whole club set up / governance needs reformed the well meaning amateurs we currently have need to go as the club needs to get back on track and stabilise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 2 Author Report Share Posted February 2 Harking back to my post about data analytics in November, I honestly still believe that a club our size has to box clever, otherwise we will come undone at some point. And that point could very well be now. We cannot continue the process of throwing shite against the wall every summer and winter and hoping some of it sticks. That's not sustainable. I said in November that I didn't know if the club were already using data analytics to its advantage, but quite honestly, I've seen very little evidence of this being the case. We could be way better in this area. And we don't need to spend a fortune to get there. As I said back then, if we put the initial framework in place ahead of a summer window, we'd save a lot on the money we seem to spend during the January window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterwood Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, David said: Harking back to my post about data analytics in November, I honestly still believe that a club our size has to box clever, otherwise we will come undone at some point. And that point could very well be now. We cannot continue the process of throwing shite against the wall every summer and winter and hoping some of it sticks. That's not sustainable. I said in November that I didn't know if the club were already using data analytics to its advantage, but quite honestly, I've seen very little evidence of this being the case. We could be way better in this area. And we don't need to spend a fortune to get there. As I said back then, if we put the initial framework in place ahead of a summer window, we'd save a lot on the money we seem to spend during the January window. Brighton meticulous about analysis and success speaks for its self. Much more focussed and less of a lottery. Can have world wide data on most players but specific data too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 2 Author Report Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, robsterwood said: Brighton meticulous about analysis and success speaks for its self. Much more focussed and less of a lottery. Can have world wide data on most players but specific data too. Don't mention Brighton 😂 I did that and was quickly told that they have a billion dollars to spend on analytics so it doesn't compare. You're right, though. There's a lot we can take from their approach that can be adjusted to fit with what we're capable of doing. Our approach at the moment seems so far off the mark that it's not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: Let's get some context on this ffs, I have no doubt that there were lots of strikers available none of which were experienced, prolific regular starters as they are not available in a January window and especially not for the money we can offer. I'm sure SK tried but the harsh reality is we're not an attractive proposition for some players especially financially. So the players we brought in are what we can afford people need to realise as a club we are feckin skint. The usual suspects are slagging off Vale without seeing him play, they probably did the same for Higdon, and KVV so let's wait and see how it turns out. Our defence is just about the worst in the league so we sign defenders and people are still not happy ffs. As I've said before and no apologies for repeating myself the whole club set up / governance needs reformed the well meaning amateurs we currently have need to go as the club needs to get back on track and stabilise. World of a difference being skint and not willing to pay exorbitant demands. As for your closing statement - often repeated yet, nothing constructive offered. A lack of understanding prevails also. Plenty of business acumen amongst these well meaning amateurs you speak of. Back on track to where? Club accounts clearly show the club as being stable. Financial climate has changed immeasurably and the well meaning amateurs have recognised that & fielding opportunities for investment latest interest earlier this week for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, David said: Harking back to my post about data analytics in November, I honestly still believe that a club our size has to box clever, otherwise we will come undone at some point. And that point could very well be now. We cannot continue the process of throwing shite against the wall every summer and winter and hoping some of it sticks. That's not sustainable. I said in November that I didn't know if the club were already using data analytics to its advantage, but quite honestly, I've seen very little evidence of this being the case. We could be way better in this area. And we don't need to spend a fortune to get there. As I said back then, if we put the initial framework in place ahead of a summer window, we'd save a lot on the money we seem to spend during the January window. You do realise the use of data analytics has been around the club for a few years? It’s nothing new. How they are applied is what’s up for debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 2 Author Report Share Posted February 2 Just now, Onthefringes said: You do realise the use of data analytics has been around the club for a few years? It’s nothing new. How they are applied is what’s up for debate. As I said, I'm fairly sure they're using analytics to some degree. I certainly don't believe they're still operating like they were in the 90's. But I just can't see a way in which they're being used correctly. Or to its potential. When it comes to analytics, you can usually tell if they're being used due to patterns and trends that are visible in the actions of the companies using them after a period of time. I've looked long and hard, and for the life of me, I can't see anything from our transfer business that would suggest they're implementing them. This is why I've long believed that any issues we have at the moment most likely sit with the recruitment department more than anything else. As you say, the people running the club aren't idiots. They're certainly not amateurs. And the club is in a reasonably healthy position financially. Kettlewell has proven that he's got something about him as a coach as well. Which leaves one particular area. In my opinion anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsterwood Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 Maybe some flexibility in full backs we bought. Generally full backs are quick and pace can be utilised in final 3rd. Buyabu is predominantly a full-back but can operate further forward also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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