2023/24 ins & outs discussion

[FirParkCornerExile]

22 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

The back of a fag packet mathematics need to stop. 

I take your point the figures at best are conjecture but the fact remains the Well Society are sitting with £650,000 in the bank and the club have stated they have money in the bank. These are statements of fact. So to say we are skint isn't true. We, I'm sure , will not be awash with cash but we are not penniless.

Whatever KVV is costing to say we couldn't afford it for 25 weeks until seasons end I think is untrue, unless of course what we have been told about the Well Society and the club having money in the bank is pish. To my mind we made a judgement call and for my mind rightly said we wouldn't pay it.

However we will see once the next lot of club accounts are published.

 

 

[Onthefringes]

4 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

I take your point the figures at best are conjecture but the fact remains the Well Society are sitting with £650,000 in the bank and the club have stated they have money in the bank. These are statements of fact. So to say we are skint isn't true. We, I'm sure , will not be awash with cash but we are not penniless.

Whatever KVV is costing to say we couldn't afford it for 25 weeks until seasons end I think is untrue, unless of course what we have been told about the Well Society and the club having money in the bank is pish. To my mind we made a judgement call and for my mind rightly said we wouldn't pay it.

However we will see once the next lot of club accounts are published.

Didn’t mean to take your post in isolation.

I alluded to being skint and not willing to sweat assets in another post.

[Kmcalpin]

2 minutes ago, David said:

This is why I've long believed that any issues we have at the moment most likely sit with the recruitment department more than anything else.

Its very hard for most of us to tell. Presumably the manager tells the recruitment department what positions to look for and also what kind of player he wants to fill those positions. Each manager will, of course have their own preferences to suit their preferred way of playing. Is the manager identifying the right positions? Is he identifying the right player profiles?  if the answer to those questions are yes, is the Recruitment department identifying appropriate  players? You seem to be saying no, it isn't, at least in part. If the right positions and types of player identified are correct, are the manager/Recruitment department's targets unrealistic? Going by our unsuccessful striking shopping in the window are their expectations wrong? 

How does the Conor Wilkinson acquisition fit with those questions?

A lot of questions but no answers for most of us.

[bobbybingo]

44 minutes ago, pretzel said:

I think it was Graeme McGarry yesterday that said we were the players preferred destination but we were simply not willing to compete with the wage demands Killie and Midden were offering.

Could well be true. I also read Van Veen said his preference was to work with Robinson and that he was signing with them. Who knows. I doubt his first words as a Killie player will be, I wanted to go somewhere else.

[Spit_It_Out]

I just find it pretty hard to believe we couldnt get another striker in when Burrnley is signing a player from the Lowland League of Scotland who just happened to be a striker!

If someone was to tell me Bair was going to be out main striker i wouldnt have laughed hard its now a reality i am still not convinced by him now is the time to change that we will see what he is made of now the real pressure will be on him to deliver the goods.

And i am telling you right now if we extended Obikas contract then that will be the final straw for me cause that is an utter waste of clubs money thats ment to be so skint.

On a goodnote i am looking forward to out left hand side of the pitch Buyabu and Gent could be pretty deadly together have high hopes for that combo.

 

[David]

14 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Presumably the manager tells the recruitment department what positions to look for and also what kind of player he wants to fill those positions.

In most cases, yes, that's how it works. The question most would have is did Kettlewell specifically ask Nick Daws for players in the positions we signed this window? If so, it may raise some questions as to why the manager has seen those particular positions as a requirement. 

However, and I believe this to be the most likely scenario, the manager has asked for players in a number of positions, and the recruitment team wasn't able to identify suitable targets in those areas, or they managed to and the club couldn't get the deals over the line. 

The question then has to be, is whoever is negotiating the deals on behalf of the club up to the task? Or has the recruitment department not been aligned on what we can afford as a club regarding playing targets?

A lot of variables, and without being inside the club, there's little way of knowing which it actually is.

All I can tell from the outside looking in is that there's no distinct pattern or trend in the signings we make, which is why I question how analytics are being used. They are more than likely being utilised in some way, but how that is, I don't know.

[MJC]

As a club we are in trouble imo, on and off the park. Financially we are flagging and without knowing all the ins and outs I struggle to see how we can sustain our position as a top flight, full time club when we are told that we can’t even match half of what the likes of Killie and St.Mirren can offer signing targets. What is our plan going forward? Do we simply live hand to mouth, day to day and hope that there are worst sides than us in the league to help us avoid the drop? Because that’s what it looks like. 
 

Our management and recruitment are are falling way short of where they should be. We looked poorly coached every week and I cannot for the life of me understand why we’ve added two more full backs on the last day of the window when it was clear that up front was where we needed to strengthen.

[FirParkCornerExile]

5 minutes ago, MJC said:

As a club we are in trouble imo, on and off the park. Financially we are flagging and without knowing all the ins and outs I struggle to see how we can sustain our position as a top flight, full time club when we are told that we can’t even match half of what the likes of Killie and St.Mirren can offer signing targets. What is our plan going forward? Do we simply live hand to mouth, day to day and hope that there are worst sides than us in the league to help us avoid the drop? Because that’s what it looks like. 
 

Our management and recruitment are are falling way short of where they should be. We looked poorly coached every week and I cannot for the life of me understand why we’ve added two more full backs on the last day of the window when it was clear that up front was where we needed to strengthen.

Who has told us we can't match Killie and St Mirren?  we need to differentiate between can't and won't and it's a question that can be asked of the Society. There's a world of difference between the two positions.

[Great Balls of Shire]

11 hours ago, purestate said:

Lots claiming to have followed the team/ football for years but still don't seem to have a f__king clue how squads and transfer windows work. 
 

Let me spelL it out to the angry idiots clambering for more and more forwards.   
We’ve scored 3 fewer goals than the team in 3rd but conceded 15 more. 
 

maybe the management team have concluded we can use the 6 forward players in first and development squad plus attacking midfield to get the goals but maybe, just maybe, the defence needs some better options. 

Yes it would be great to get an established striker who has been banging them in consistently at Scot Prem level and wants to try a new experience playing in front of a bunch of roasters (not you ppower obviously as you’ve already fkd off) but there probably aren’t many about.  

it’s all very well having an opinion but there are so many totally deluded on this forum 🫨
 

Totally, they are all posting about the mgr being in over his head etc and they hee haw about his intentions re playing squad...tbf the club will hopefully communicate this asap

 

I am a clown for reading most of the posts on here

[Mad Dog]

5 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Who has told us we can't match Killie and St Mirren?  we need to differentiate between can't and won't and it's a question that can be asked of the Society. There's a world of difference between the two positions.

Exactly this. I'll add the question, who's to say that Killie can afford it or that St. Mirren could afford what they offered? Motherwell didn't want to take a risk on our current finances so let's see what happens to Killie and other clubs that have paid over the odds in this window.

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 minute ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

Who has told us we can't match Killie and St Mirren?  we need to differentiate between can't and won't and it's a question that can be asked of the Society. There's a world of difference between the two positions.

Even if we could match Killie and St Mirren it doesn't mean we should.

Making the smart decision doesn't necessarily mean throwing cash at players.

Seems to me paying the wages for Van Veen would have been a big gamble and probably not worth it.

By the way Steven Robinson was on the radio on Saturday saying St Mirren had no money.  Turns out they didn't bring anyone in last night which might well confirm that.

 

[David]

11 minutes ago, MJC said:

As a club we are in trouble imo, on and off the park. Financially we are flagging and without knowing all the ins and outs I struggle to see how we can sustain our position as a top flight, full time club when we are told that we can’t even match half of what the likes of Killie and St.Mirren can offer signing targets. What is our plan going forward? Do we simply live hand to mouth, day to day and hope that there are worst sides than us in the league to help us avoid the drop? Because that’s what it looks like. 
 

Our management and recruitment are are falling way short of where they should be. We looked poorly coached every week and I cannot for the life of me understand why we’ve added two more full backs on the last day of the window when it was clear that up front was where we needed to strengthen.

A few points there worth addressing:

1. I don't think we're "financially flagging" at all. In fact, we seem to be in a relatively good space financially. Now, that doesn't mean we can sustain ourselves as a top-flight club. It could become the case that we can't do that with the financial restrictions we're working under. But that doesn't mean we're "financially flagging". It just means we're not as financially well-off as those around us.

2. As someone else has said, we don't know if we couldn't match what Killie and St Mirren were offering or if we just didn't see the value in it. The whole thing had a bit of a bidding war about it, and I definitely believe that Killie paid over the odds if the numbers being bandied about are true. 

3. I don't know if we look "poorly coached" either. We're certainly not at our best this season, but we're 9th in the league. I could understand the crying and panic if we were in the position Livi are in, but we're not.

 

[steelboy]

Just now, Mad Dog said:

Exactly this. I'll add the question, who's to say that Killie can afford it or that St. Mirren could afford what they offered? Motherwell didn't want to take a risk on our current finances so let's see what happens to Killie and other clubs that have laid over the odds in this window.

There's still a middle ground between shelling out big bucks for KVV and only having Bair, Obika and Vale. We should have signed at least another two strikers. 

There's so much mixed messaging coming out the club. We are skint but we can pay a fortune for a stupid video from an Edinburgh advertising agency. We don't have money for a proper number 9 but we have to fund a women's team no one watches for the rest of eternity.

Questions need asked and answered.

[David]

1 minute ago, steelboy said:

We are skint but we can pay a fortune for a stupid video from an Edinburgh advertising agency.

We didn't spend a "fortune" on that video. 

[steelboy]

11 minutes ago, David said:

We didn't spend a "fortune" on that video. 

Was it not 20 grand?

[santheman]

We're not skint as some people are alluding to.

We have been spending more than we're bringing in and don't want to dip into reserves to cover the deficit.

That's not a club in trouble, it's one that's taking steps to address it by trimming costs and trying to live within its means.

Does anyone really want to go back to the "Well Worth Saving" days.

 

[steelboy]

So when are we cutting the costs on the women's team?

[gaz7]

I get that a forum is for all opinions and we can't all be positive but by God the last 24 hours have been negativity central. Some people really do have sad lives who just moan at anything. See the arseholes at your work that non stop say they hate their job moan at everything are generally also shite at their job. The same applies here in their football knowledge and so called support of their team. That guy/gal yesterday who said he hadn't been in 10 years but on moaning. Holy fuk that summed those sort of people up .

 

[wellgirl]

31 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Even if we could match Killie and St Mirren it doesn't mean we should.

Making the smart decision doesn't necessarily mean throwing cash at players.

Seems to me paying the wages for Van Veen would have been a big gamble and probably not worth it.

By the way Steven Robinson was on the radio on Saturday saying St Mirren had no money.  Turns out they didn't bring anyone in last night which might well confirm that.

 

Completely agree. Im as sorry as the next person that Van Veen has gone elsewhere but he has - the biggest blow for me has been the loss of Biereth 

[Great Balls of Shire]

4 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

I get that a forum is for all opinions and we can't all be positive but by God the last 24 hours have been negativity central. Some people really do have sad lives who just moan at anything. See the arseholes at your work that non stop say they hate their job moan at everything are generally also shite at their job. The same applies here in their football knowledge and so called support of their team. That guy/gal yesterday who said he hadn't been in 10 years but on moaning. Holy fuk that summed those sort of people up .

 

That's the problem with a forum, it's mostly speculation, 3 or 4 in here just post shit for the hell of it and don't feel the need to back it up...it's invariably negative unfortunately 

[wellgirl]

8 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

I get that a forum is for all opinions and we can't all be positive but by God the last 24 hours have been negativity central. Some people really do have sad lives who just moan at anything. See the arseholes at your work that non stop say they hate their job moan at everything are generally also shite at their job. The same applies here in their football knowledge and so called support of their team. That guy/gal yesterday who said he hadn't been in 10 years but on moaning. Holy fuk that summed those sort of people up .

 

To be fair - not just the last 24 hours

Hopefully Vale will be the new KVV - we can but hope 

 

[Kmcalpin]

42 minutes ago, David said:

We didn't spend a "fortune" on that video. 

That's right. Jim McMahon personally paid for it.

[si91]

As has been said by others, the figures for this year suggests the defence is needing more work than the attack. Perhaps Kettlewell is considering three at the back, and using the new fullbacks as wingbacks in a 3-5-2; I get that leaves the question about who partners Bair - maybe Spitall or Paton fills that role, or Vale. He was prepared to go with Montgomery and Gent so perhaps he sees merit in having additional fullbacks/ wingbacks who can play that role. I don’t see Kettlewell making deliberately negative choices that would/ could ultimately result in his sacking; why would he do that?

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

World of a difference being skint and not willing to pay exorbitant demands.

As for your closing statement - often repeated yet, nothing constructive offered. A lack of understanding prevails also. Plenty of business acumen amongst these well meaning amateurs you speak of. Back on track to where? Club accounts clearly show the club as being stable. Financial climate has changed immeasurably and the well meaning amateurs have recognised that & fielding opportunities for investment latest interest earlier this week for example.

Unfortunately in modern football exorbitant wage demands are the norm and at a level we cant compete in so the clubs unwillingness to pay them is irrelevant.

As for the current custodians of our club I've no doubt they are all successful business people in their own fields but not at running a football club, these are the people who signed off on players like Obika, Souare, Shaw, Wilkinson etc⁸ costing the club  decent money no doubt on wages etc for nothing in return. we're now on our 3rd manager since Robinson left, we can't seem to appoint a CEO to replace Burrows, our recruitment strategy is a shambles and year on year its getting worse, its a constant downward spiral.

I hope the recent moves to attract additional investment are successful as that may be the catalyst needed to get the club back on track to building a stable team, instead of the summer and winter clearouts we seem to now be getting.

 

[wellfan]

34 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

I get that a forum is for all opinions and we can't all be positive but by God the last 24 hours have been negativity central. Some people really do have sad lives who just moan at anything. See the arseholes at your work that non stop say they hate their job moan at everything are generally also shite at their job. The same applies here in their football knowledge and so called support of their team. That guy/gal yesterday who said he hadn't been in 10 years but on moaning. Holy fuk that summed those sort of people up .

 

I've had a season ticket for most of the past 28 seasons. Does that entitle me to moan about what I perceive as failings in how our Club is run and managed? I also hold my hands up when wrong, eventually. My life isn't sad, and I enjoy my job because I am good at it, but I also like to be critical of the team I've followed since I was 10. Live and let live.