2023/24 ins & outs discussion

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, sinjy said:

Bair got his contract cancelled at SJ. There would be a pay off to him to compensate for this season. Maybe we are paying him washers for the first year of his contract with us.

Good point. These are the things we will never know. 

We also dont know what part of "The Project" SK sees Bair taking up. 

It would be hard to believe / accept that he sees him as a first pick striker ahead of Obika and Wilkinson, who already have their detractors lining up to proclaim them both failures.

More likely he is seen as back up to Obika and is there to learn from him and try to develop into a more effective hold up / support striker.

The difficulty I have with that is we already had Mandron in the building and let him go, so if that IS his role, than SK is gambling on Bair being a better (or maybe cheaper) option on that front.

If we do in fact get the Arsenal boy in on loan, this transfer wont seem half as risky as it does now. But we need that or something like it to happen to take the pressure of and generate some additional hope/expectation going into the start of the season.

 

[Great Balls of Shire]

10 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Good point. These are the things we will never know. 

We also dont know what part of "The Project" SK sees Bair taking up. 

It would be hard to believe / accept that he sees him as a first pick striker ahead of Obika and Wilkinson, who already have their detractors lining up to proclaim them both failures.

More likely he is seen as back up to Obika and is there to learn from him and try to develop into a more effective hold up / support striker.

The difficulty I have with that is we already had Mandron in the building and let him go, so if that IS his role, than SK is gambling on Bair being a better (or maybe cheaper) option on that front.

If we do in fact get the Arsenal boy in on loan, this transfer wont seem half as risky as it does now. But we need that or something like it to happen to take the pressure of and generate some additional hope/expectation going into the start of the season.

 

Is it not the case he tried to keep Mandron but st m offered more, that could be bollocks , sure I read it on here tho

[dennyc]

11 hours ago, weeyin said:

 

The backlash comes because every signing we've made over the last 3 or 4 seasons (or more) is immediately followed by posts of "useless" before a ball is kicked. 

From Porter to Higdon from O'Hara to Slattery. 

 

 

 

From what I remember this is just not true. History being revised.

When their signings were announced - 

Higdon was viewed as a big lump who had scored goals of all types for several teams....including a cracker against us for Falkirk when he turned Craigen? inside out.

O'Hara was regarded as a good move on the back of his performances for Killie and Dundee. Highlighted by two superb strikes against Rangers. A goal scoring midfielder which we badly needed.

Slattery was seen as a youngster...still is....with a lot of potential who was at the back of a long queue at Premier League Southampton. Highly regarded down South and someone we did well to bring to Fir Park as others had made offers.

Porter had a decent record down South but had suffered injury set backs. Looked upon as a clever player who would improve players around him. A risk worth taking. 

Not one of them was slated before they kicked a ball for Motherwell and every one arrived with an encouraging track record on the pitch. Admittedly all of them did have detractors at some stage in their Motherwell career, and every one went on to more than prove those detractors wrong. However they were not slated before a ball was kicked.

Compare the signing of those four players you highlight to some of our recent recruits, particularly taking into account our stated shortage of funds. However, I repeat, no Motherwell fan wants any signing to be a disaster and hopefully all three strikers will reach double figures this season.. 

 

[weeyin]

You might remember it that way. A quick search of the the site suggests otherwise.

Slattery still gets called out as useless by some on an almost weekly basis.

 

[star sail]

On 8/1/2023 at 6:06 PM, David said:

Just for even more perspective, Stevie May scored 10 the season before the one you mentioned, and has hit double figures five times in his career at varying levels and for different clubs.

The most Bair has managed was four in one season, where he played 17 games in the Norwegian second tier. He's played in 92 games during his career and has scored eight goals.

I was not trying to underplay Stevie May's ability. The very opposite in fact. I was using him as an example of a player that has proved himself at our level and yet still had a season where he struggled to score in a St Johnstone side. The point is that a player can have a poor season ( even an experienced player like Stevie May) and sometimes it is for reasons other than the player himself. The other point is that having had a poor season one season does not guarantee failure the next season.

SK clearly believes he can make a player out of Bair. Maybe he thinks he can man manage some confidence into the lad. Maybe he feels that St Johnstone were not playing him to his strengths and believes that a different formation/ role on the field will play to the players strengths. Look at what he was able to do with KVV by simply changing a few things.

One thing is for absolutely certain. If it is a confidence issue, the fan reaction to his signing will not have helped. Even if Bair has been advised by SK not to read social media, the fact that a negative impression has been created already will mean that the first misplaced pass or lack of control during his first game will result in a negative reaction from the stands.

Football fans will never learn that their behaviours and reactions can actually handicap the team they are supposed to be supporting. Give the boy a chance. A couple of early season goals could be all that is needed to kick start his career. Let's try and provide the environment which best allows that to happen.

[Coatsy]

Needs to move more out before others join, also the kettle is hanging his had on Theo interesting interview today

[Kat]

Mika has arrived.

[David]

1 hour ago, pretzel said:

You're correct that it's great to have this forum to discuss all things Motherwell but your posts on the matter are coming across like you're having a bit of a meltdown over this particular transfer. Generally, you're a poster that seems quite reasonable but in this instance, it seems like you have made up your mind already that he's going to be a failure before he has even kicked a ball for us. Many seasoned Scottish footballers had stinking seasons by all accounts with St Johnstone last season one of which was highly regarded by us, I seem to remember Saints fans on Pie and Bovril moaning about Davidson deploying attacking-minded players in defensive roles last season. 

There's no meltdown here, I'm being pretty factual and reasonable with my comments, I think.

The reason I'm saying a lot about it is that people keep taking what I say and replying to it, so I then reply to them in order to continue the discussion, which is fine as it kills time until we start the real stuff this weekend. But trust me, I'm more confused and perturbed than angry. I don't really get angry about football at my age. It's important to me, but not that important.

The issue I have is that while I recognise virtually every player we've ever signed has had bad seasons, usually immediately prior to them coming here, which is why we are able to get them, my issue with this signing is that outside of a season in the Norwegian second tier where he scored four goals (would we even classify that as a decent season? Is the bar so low with this guy?), Bair has only ever had stinking seasons. 

We've signed a player who will be 24 years old in a few weeks, so he's not a youngster, but who has pretty much done absolutely nothing for his entire career. 

It might just be me, but that's concerning. A player who does nothing of note in a career that has spanned four years suggests we're talking about someone who just isn't going to make the cut as a pro.

Just now, star sail said:

I was not trying to underplay Stevie May's ability. The very opposite in fact. I was using him as an example of a player that has proved himself at our level and yet still had a season where he struggled to score in a St Johnstone side. The point is that a player can have a poor season ( even an experienced player like Stevie May) and sometimes it is for reasons other than the player himself. The other point is that having had a poor season one season does not guarantee failure the next season.

SK clearly believes he can make a player out of Bair. Maybe he thinks he can man manage some confidence into the lad. Maybe he feels that St Johnstone were not playing him to his strengths and believes that a different formation/ role on the field will play to the players strengths. Look at what he was able to do with KVV by simply changing a few things.

One thing is for absolutely certain. If it is a confidence issue, the fan reaction to his signing will not have helped. Even if Bair has been advised by SK not to read social media, the fact that a negative impression has been created already will mean that the first misplaced pass or lack of control during his first game will result in a negative reaction from the stands.

Football fans will never learn that their behaviours and reactions can actually handicap the team they are supposed to be supporting. Give the boy a chance. A couple of early season goals could be all that is needed to kick start his career. Let's try and provide the environment which best allows that to happen.

As I said above, if Bair had suffered a bad season at St Johnstone but had shown something elsewhere, I could understand the signing. I've said already I look into the history of players we sign, and generally, I can see something that makes me think, "Okay, I can understand why we're giving this guy a shot."

Not this time. 

This isn't a player who has had a bad season, like Stevie May or any other player you wish to pick as an example. This a player who's only ever had bad or mediocre at best seasons. It's concerning when all we have to grasp onto is that he scored four goals in the Norwegian second tier as if that's some indicator of quality. 

I certainly won't be booing him, and I really hope he somehow turns into an actual footballer at the age of 24 when he's not looked like one at all in his past. I do.

But, if literally the rest of his career so far is any indicator, we're going to see a lot of misplaced passes and games passing him by. Because the stats and performances until this point suggest, he's just not a footballer. Not at the professional level, anyway. 

Most players we sign are a coin toss as to how they end up doing for us. I would never bet on or against them. But if I was a betting man? I'd put my money on this being a signing that is used in Motherwell-themed pub quizzes in years to come.

[David]

Just now, Kat said:

Mika has arrived.

Now, this is a proper project. 20 years old and has spent time playing in the Dutch top tier? The kind of player I'm happy to see us sign. 

[star sail]

8 minutes ago, Kat said:

Mika has arrived.

He looks like a young Scott Brown. 

[steelboy]

52 minutes ago, Coatsy said:

Needs to move more out before others join, also the kettle is hanging his had on Theo interesting interview today

[mfc]

11 minutes ago, star sail said:

He looks like a young Scott Brown. 

Atleast we have a valid reason to hate him before he's kicked a ball for us 😆

[Spiderpig]

8 minutes ago, David said:

Now, this is a proper project. 20 years old and has spent time playing in the Dutch top tier? The kind of player I'm happy to see us sign. 

Just a 1 year loan is that OK for you or would you have preferred 2 years seeing you seem to like this one sight unseen.

[steelboy]

Good news. 

On his videos he's got power and pace so he should be able to be make an impact for us. 

An attacking wing back is a must now. Can't be relying on SOD and McGinn to create for us.

[grizzlyg]

Welcome Mika,   so what are your thoughts about signing for the Well?........"I could be brown...I could be blue....I could be violet sky...I could be hurtful , I could be purple , I could be anything you like"

😜😜😜😜

[grizzlyg]

Also you are a striker so try not to be like Liam Kelly.....mmmhh.....that would just make us all sad....mmmmh

[Pettywulliegrew-2]

Relax take it easy……..Mika
 

[David]

Just now, Spiderpig said:

Just a 1 year loan is that OK for you or would you have preferred 2 years seeing you seem to like this one sight unseen.

That's perfectly acceptable 😉

[wellsince75]

44 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Also you are a striker so try not to be like Liam Kelly.....mmmhh.....that would just make us all sad....mmmmh

Top form Grizzly - both the promising youngster and your banter have made me smile this afternoon.

 

[Busta Nut]

1 hour ago, David said:

Now, this is a proper project. 20 years old and has spent time playing in the Dutch top tier? The kind of player I'm happy to see us sign. 

He's not our project. He needs to hit the ground running and be good for us.

Still he looks like he'll be a good player for us.

[David]

Just now, Busta Nut said:

He's not our project. He needs to hit the ground running and be good for us.

Yeah, he's not the type of player we could hope to sign permanently, I don't think. Not at the stage he's at, anyway.

But he's a kid with potential. Let's hope he lives up to it with us this season.

[Mad Dog]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

We're just going have have to grin and Bair it.

[fizoxy]

Can we try and negotiate a sell on clause when he's recalled from the loan? If we make him better we should get some money. Or, if he's good can we threaten Arsenal that we will feed him to Butcher if they don't pay a ransom? Monetizing loans is the next big inefficiency.

[mio]

The boys got a year in the shop window and he does have aspirations to play in arsenals first team so he’ll need to perform. Hopefully he’ll benefit us do well for himself.

noises look positive from Arsenal supporters comments. We might have a good one here.

don’t like to get too excited getting players from the north London giants, John hendry still gives me chills.

[David]

Just now, fizoxy said:

Can we try and negotiate a sell on clause when he's recalled from the loan? If we make him better we should get some money.

I'm not sure we're in a position where we can call shots like that. There's every chance we ask for that stipulation and Arsenal reply along the lines of "Aye, very good. We've got about 10 teams willing to take him on loan. Bugger off."