2023/24 ins & outs discussion

[steelboy]

5 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Should be even easier then (even though we are slashing the wages budget this season).

Been waiting patiently to see your list of top players we can afford (and who want to sign).

Now would be the perfect time to share it.

You actually need to have access to the information to come up with players. 

That doesn't mean you can't criticise it though. That argument is as stupid as saying no one can say NHS waiting lists are too long unless they start doing hospital rotas. 

[texanwellfan]

So is this just a Motherwell problem or a problem, in general, for most Scottish sides? How does our recruitment performance compare to other teams in Scotland? If most teams have the same issue then perhaps it’s not the fault of our staff but if we are clearly worse than other teams then maybe it is our staff. 

[David]

55 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Us fans always have thoughts about who we think might improve us as a team, but we don't employ a team of professionals, with a detailed knowledge of the market, who are paid to scour that market all year round, succession planning for the likes of KVV and Max J moving on and looking to possible injuries to key players.

This is a very good point. We always see the same old arguments whenever anyone questions the signing the club makes, which is, "well, could you do any better? Who would you sign?"

It's a ridiculous argument, really. 

I know players need six months in the league to learn the language and all that, but I'm not really feeling any different about Bair, Obika, and Wilkinson than I was when they signed. I was concerned about their career numbers and trajectory to this point, and they're not really doing anything that suggests to me that they're going to change.

Again, I hope I'm wrong. I also hope we sign some other players who can do a job for us. 

As things stand, I'm not particularly optimistic about the current squad or how Kettlewell has us playing.

[stv]

4 hours ago, MJC said:

Kettlewell did a very good job in stabilising us last season and deserves his chance to prove himself but he certainly hasn’t covered himself in glory as far as his recruitment has gone this summer.
 

We knew KvV was leaving at the end of last season and preparations to get in an adequate replacement(s) should have been made. Obviously it was going to be nigh on impossible for us to find another 29 goal a season striker but for us to be approaching the end of the window with a crocked and aging Obika, 6ft 4ins Wilkinson who looks like he’s never headed a football in his life, Bair who scored once for St.Johnstone last season, Efford who is himself injured and now a loanee who will probably not play for us again(obviously not his or the managers fault to be fair) is absolutely dismal. We could well be forced to throw in a 17 year old Mark Ferrie in the hope that he can offer us something up front.

Not good at all.

Aye if we win on Saturday or if the wind changes you will be singing a different tune on Sunday.

 

[texanwellfan]

Tough crowd! We have played 2 league games and Bair and Wilkinson have both scored already but that’s not a sign that their numbers may improve? 
i also don’t buy into the 6 month statement. Just because Arsene Wenger said it (and wee yin) doesn’t mean it’s true. Wonder what Cloughie would have had to say about that. 

[MJC]

3 minutes ago, stv said:

Aye if we win on Saturday or if the wind changes you will be singing a different tune on Sunday.

 

Well as I've already said on the other thread I think we will win on Saturday. And if we do then we will be on seven points out of nine which would make for a good start to the league season.

But I'm still concerned about the quality and depth within the squad.

[Spit_It_Out]

Sorry but the signing of Obika was a terrible bit of recruitment.Was out around 6 months at Morecambe with a hamstring injury,missed 7 games end of last season with a hamstring injury and low an behold out to when ever with a hamstring injury these all in last two years!Shouldn't have been avoided at all costs but no 1 year deal with a 1 year extension option.

Nobody can't tell me that no other players in UK and Ireland that would could have got on same package that could have been at least fit.

[texanwellfan]

Fair comment I think regarding Obika. We do seem to have repeated this same mistake several times over the past few years in signing players with known injury issues. Might be a good idea to update our scouting checklist to prioritize a players injury history/likelihood as one of the main deciding factors in whether or not to sign them. Anyone can pick up an injury but obviously some players have recurring issues with a specific injury and they are not a bargain if they come to us and just sit on the treatment table all the time

[fizoxy]

In some cases, signing players who have had injury issues can be a way for us to get some value that we couldn't get otherwise. We can offer a path to career resurrection and get someone we might not afford normally.

Now, that only works if they stop getting injuried, and anyone who has even the most basic knowledge of doing things that require working legs knows that recurring hamstring injuries are a big red flag.

[texanwellfan]

6 minutes ago, fizoxy said:

In some cases, signing players who have had injury issues can be a way for us to get some value that we couldn't get otherwise. We can offer a path to career resurrection and get someone we might not afford normally.

Now, that only works if they stop getting injuried, and anyone who has even the most basic knowledge of doing things that require working legs knows that recurring hamstring injuries are a big red flag.

Exactly! I am asking this because I don’t know the answer but has there been a case where that has worked in our favour? Could be selective memory but seems that, if not in every case, the majority of times the recurring injury does indeed cause the player to be sidelined for long periods of time. 

[David]

Another thing I find interesting is that until recently, we never really handed players more than a one-year deal when we signed them.

A two or three-year deal was a bit of a rarity, and unless I'm mistaken, there was a bit of a big deal made by the club under Alexander that we were shifting to that model for certain players. 

I welcomed that. If we have a chance to bring in a player who we believe can do a job for us over a period of time and hopefully be sold on, then we should offer a longer deal where possible.

We signed Conor Shields on a three-year deal, which may look ridiculous now, but he was touted as a real prospect when he came in. At 24 years old and with 11 goals in the Championship the previous season, he looked worth the gamble.

Kaiyne Woolery, Van Veen, Liam Kelly, Slattery, Ojala, Goss, Sol, Tierney, Spittal and Josh Morris were all handed multi-year deals. 

How many of them were a success? I'd say that all except Ojala, Morris, and possibly Tierney were. 

We saw those signings above, and the squad was shored up by the likes of Jordan Roberts, Paul McGinn, Stuart McKinstry, Matt Penney, Ollie Crankshaw on short-term deals and loans. 

But this summer, we've handed multi-year deals to Theo Bair, Wilkinson, and Davor. 

It may just be me, but those three players look like the type of players we'd have offered short-term deals to in the past. Would anyone have been up in arms if we'd signed any of those players to the end of this season? I wouldn't have.

Are we truly that skint that the bit-part squad fillers of a few years ago are now the first-choice, primary transfer targets of today? 

It's not just the names we're bringing in that have me slightly worried, but the fact we're committing long-term to players like the ones we've signed. 

I still believe that Theo Bair would have been the most shocked man in the country when his agent rang him up and said Motherwell wanted to offer him not a trial or a six-month deal to prove himself but a two-year deal. 

Again, I hope to be proved completely wrong and we go on to have a cracking season, but I'm not optimistic. Which is saying something, as I've been a Motherwell fan for a long time and have seen a fair amount of shite pass through the doors at Fir Park over the years.

But this squad, so far, is one of the worst I've seen in quite a while I think.

[steelboy]

Good video of the tackle. The prick knew exactly what he was doing.

[Coatsy]

1 hour ago, David said:

Another thing I find interesting is that until recently, we never really handed players more than a one-year deal when we signed them.

A two or three-year deal was a bit of a rarity, and unless I'm mistaken, there was a bit of a big deal made by the club under Alexander that we were shifting to that model for certain players. 

I welcomed that. If we have a chance to bring in a player who we believe can do a job for us over a period of time and hopefully be sold on, then we should offer a longer deal where possible.

I said at the time that we should not be doing this we are a team that needs rebuilding each year only know quality should be on long term deals. Two year deals is just a carrot to get a player to sign, they are as worthless for us a one year deal. It just means if the player turns out to be a success he sees out his contract and leaves, if he's rubbish or a squad filler he see's out his deal then we release him but were tied to expense for a further year as long as its not a permacrock its backup which we all need.

Of the current Squad ATM , Kelly, Casey, Slattery, Spittal, Miller Should be on long contracts, McGinn, O'Donnell, Blaney are first team players and quality enough for us.  Hope that Butcher is not a permacrock

Jury is out on the new players not seen enough to tell how they will turn out.  Good points made about Obika in earlier post though

Kettlewell has done well getting rid of players he does not fancy, however think Tierney may turn out to be the one that we regret letting go.

[SteelmaninOZ]

5 hours ago, Coatsy said:

I said at the time that we should not be doing this we are a team that needs rebuilding each year only know quality should be on long term deals. Two year deals is just a carrot to get a player to sign, they are as worthless for us a one year deal. It just means if the player turns out to be a success he sees out his contract and leaves, if he's rubbish or a squad filler he see's out his deal then we release him but were tied to expense for a further year as long as its not a permacrock its backup which we all need.

Of the current Squad ATM , Kelly, Casey, Slattery, Spittal, Miller Should be on long contracts, McGinn, O'Donnell, Blaney are first team players and quality enough for us.  Hope that Butcher is not a permacrock

Jury is out on the new players not seen enough to tell how they will turn out.  Good points made about Obika in earlier post though

Kettlewell has done well getting rid of players he does not fancy, however think Tierney may turn out to be the one that we regret letting go.

A fair assessment on the current squad. 

[Spit_It_Out]

The budget has clearly went down so I can't believe that we signed a 32 year old forward with a history of Thigh and Hamstring Injuries over last 2-3 years that's clearly to me not using the budget properly just lazy lazy recruitment.Obika is a sprint away when he does come back of getting injured again.

Christ thank god Wilkinson's head knock start of season wasn't bad or we would be bang in trouble.

We are about to see what SK is made of the real season for him has started  we are down a striker scoring goals for fun and two dynamic wingbacks key to his system and success.

 

 

[gee]

When Obika was retained it was announced that the deal was for 1 year with a 1 year option. The only way that makes sense surely would be the club having the option to extend another year at the end of this season. 

[mfc]

Obikas problems with injury are there for all to see,between that and his performances last season,for me there was no reason to keep him on.we now find ourselves in the situation where he's here this season but hardly plays which will surely mean that the option of another year next season is off the table or if he is here next season were still in the same boat where he's a year older and hoping he doesn't break down at any second.ive no idea what will happen with biereth,he might be an option in january but right now we need a couple of decent signings up front.

[mfc]

That's souare going to be missing for the next few games and obika is expected to be out until december.

[GazzyB]

If we only bring in one more player at absolutely has to be a striker. Right now we have Bair and Wilkinson who look nothing close to the flair and quality of KVV, a young lad in Ferrie and Efford who appears unlikely to respond positively to the manager’s public calling out.

 

We have looked solid defensively this season and our midfield is reasonable (even moreso if the Davor boy comes good and offers the defence some protection), but if we can’t score goals we will struggle badly.

[wellfan]

Obika and Paton were incredibly lazy singings by Kettlewell and it's already coming back to bite him on the arse.

[Spit_It_Out]

For me Defence and Midfield are fine not any worse or better than the teams about us I actually think Midfield is best it's looks in a fair we while the frontline however is really really weak and as it stands right now we are 1 injury away from having a mare.

We need two forwards now to come in right off Obika and good chance we might not see Biereth again sadly.

So that's Efford,Bair and Wilkinson I myself would have Efford playing his pace alone gives us something and  that is  something sorely lacking upfront.

[Onthefringes]

Who was getting their picture taken on Knowetop Avenue this morning?

[Spiderpig]

Just now, Onthefringes said:

Who was getting their picture taken on Knowetop Avenue this morning?

That's no way to start rumours more teasing details required, any dodgy haircuts on show that sort of stuff 😁

[AllyMax]

8 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Who was getting their picture taken on Knowetop Avenue this morning?

Hopefully a 'goal machine' like Esteban Casagolda

[Yodo]

31 minutes ago, AllyMax said:

Hopefully a 'goal machine' like Esteban Casagolda

Irish wing back