Heavy Hands, Empty Stands...

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 hour ago, stv said:

There ye are fixed it.  Ps. it’s called a twin in Scotland now have you no heard.

It’s still called Twix in Australia  😇
 

 

[Motherwellfc1991]

I’ve stayed out of this discussion and read the various comments on here and other forums etc

There is no doubt in my mind that the end section contributes massively to the atmosphere at fir park and has done for a number of years. Of course there are a couple of clowns within their groups but the same could be said for most groups that go to the games and for most sections of each of the home stands. I would say the club needs them though and needs to accommodate them within reason. We can’t afford to lose this group or the numbers within it. What’s needed is a maturity within the club to get around the table like adults and talk to them. Set the rules out , give them clarity, talk to them like grown ups and then if they blow it they’ve only themselves to blame. 
 

So what’s the problem…. Well that lies at the door of a jumped up , self preservation champion who believes he is better than everyone and knows better than everyone, who has the people skills of well … a retired/failed member of Strathclydes finest. The man who is always there when he is never wanted and never there when he is needed. Sure that was part of his previous employment training as well. All allegedly of course.  
 

I just wonder how he got appointed in the first place ????!!!!! 
 

 

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

3 hours ago, dennyc said:

Plenty of folk have enjoyed the atmosphere the lads generate and have recognised, praised and often contributed to their various displays and good causes. For what it's worth I do appreciate much of what they add to matches and I hope they continue to contribute. And I support their right to do so.

But plenty of folk, me included, old folk and not so old folk, have also witnessed the types of incidents Robbos Boy mentions. From Kilmarnock to Paisley, from Dingwall to Kirkcaldy. Like you I have no foot in any camp. I don't know any of the Bois and I don't know any Club Officials or Police involved. I can only comment on what I have regularly  witnessed and it appears to me that the so called "self policing" is not working. And sadly the incidents have been escalating.

I don't usually agree with much that Robbos Boy comes up with, but on this occasion I think he makes a valid point. It may well only apply to a small minority within the group, but to suggest that The Bois do not go too far at times and to palm off any criticism as older fans with an axe to grind is nonsense.

But if you truly believe that incidents in the places I mentioned or that Robbos Boy highlighted did not occur, were exaggerated or were just high jinx, then so be it. I know what I have seen and heard and I fear it is only a matter of time until someone is seriously hurt..

I do hope the Bois can resolve the issues they have with some employees of Motherwell FC and also which I believe exist within their membership. That should then result in less confrontations with Police, Stewards and fellow Motherwell fans. There definitely appears to be plenty of good people with commendable intentions within the group. Fir Park especially and grounds throughout Scotland would be the worse off for their absence.

 

Agree 100%.. Although over my 45 years watching football home and away I always find Football fans of all clubs are fabulous at playing the victim card even when they are clearly in the wrong. 

[Big Stall]

Like others, i have no involvement with the lads or knowledge on what has been going on. I would say however, to the normal observer, the thought of the police conducting "dawn raids" with no evidence does seem a bit far fetched.

I stand to be corrected of course & while there are no doubt a small number of police officers with jumped up attitudes, generally you dont get hit with a full police operation unless you have been up to something.

To put Robbos boys post in a bit more polite tone, enjoy the support the Motherwell fans have been giving the bois throughout, but dont expect that support to be automatic and unconditional if there are unsavoury or unlawful incidents.

Fair?

[Kmcalpin]

Irrespective of which side of the debate you're on, if indeed any, I think most of us agree that business as normal isn't an option. Some get together / resolution is required.

[David]

15 hours ago, dennyc said:

Plenty of folk have enjoyed the atmosphere the lads generate and have recognised, praised and often contributed to their various displays and good causes. For what it's worth I do appreciate much of what they add to matches and I hope they continue to contribute. And I support their right to do so.

But plenty of folk, me included, old folk and not so old folk, have also witnessed the types of incidents Robbos Boy mentions. From Kilmarnock to Paisley, from Dingwall to Kirkcaldy. Like you I have no foot in any camp. I don't know any of the Bois and I don't know any Club Officials or Police involved. I can only comment on what I have regularly  witnessed and it appears to me that the so called "self policing" is not working. And sadly the incidents have been escalating.

I don't usually agree with much that Robbos Boy comes up with, but on this occasion I think he makes a valid point. It may well only apply to a small minority within the group, but to suggest that The Bois do not go too far at times and to palm off any criticism as older fans with an axe to grind is nonsense.

But if you truly believe that incidents in the places I mentioned or that Robbos Boy highlighted did not occur, were exaggerated or were just high jinx, then so be it. I know what I have seen and heard and I fear it is only a matter of time until someone is seriously hurt..

I do hope the Bois can resolve the issues they have with some employees of Motherwell FC and also which I believe exist within their membership. That should then result in less confrontations with Police, Stewards and fellow Motherwell fans. There definitely appears to be plenty of good people with commendable intentions within the group. Fir Park especially and grounds throughout Scotland would be the worse off for their absence.

 

If you read my post you'll see that I'm not "palming off" anything. What I'm saying is that we'd all do well to remember what we were like at that young age. Now, if anyone here was the type who doffed their cap to the good constables and have never thrown a punch in anger or in drunken silliness, fair enough. You're obviously a level above most. 

But for me, I think most of us have been there. 

And maybe it's just me, but I can also recall being a young lad and having condescending auld tits tutting and shaking their heads at me and my friends at the time. At no time ever did we take said condescending patter and holier-than-thou reprimanding and say "you know what? These moaning auld c*nts are right! We need to give our heads a shake and settle ourselves down." Basically, it's easy for some to post about how long they've been going to games, how they're so much more mature and level-headed, and how they're better then these lads who darken the reputation of our club and Scottish football by throwing punches and getting into fights.

But just as it never worked with me, and anyone else who was ever young and a bit daft, it won't work here. That kind of patter will have zero positive effect. But that's not the intention of it. The intention is to put others down, while making yourself out to be a cut above.

Which brings me to...

13 hours ago, Robbos boy said:

Dear David, probably being going to Fir Park for plenty more years than and I'm entitled to my opinion. I have no issues with banners, drums etc. My issue is with kids, yes kids of immature ages running about thinking as  you put it like Billy Big time, then bleating when they get outed or the club doesn't let them play ball

If you don't know of the member of staff involved, you've not been reading the information correctly. Amazing that you don't know how these Bois operate, but you know how Police Scotland, do, inside info or perhaps previous dealings?????. 

And there we have it. "I HAVE BEEN GOING TO FIR PARK FOR PLENTY MORE YEARS THAN YOU/THEM/OTHER FOLK!" 

Honestly mate, I don't give a f*uck how long you've been going to Fir Park. That's not an accomplishment. All that means is you've been alive longer. It means nothing. I bet I've been going to Fir Park for longer than a lot of the lads in corner of the East Stand. Because I'm older than most of them. Doesn't mean I'm a better fan than they are, or somehow have a right to question them without response or reprisal. 

And you are entitled to your opinion. No one said you're not. But I'm also entitled to mines. And my opinion is that if you have so much to say on the matter, you should be more constructive and offer your undoubted years of experience of going to Fir Park and do something to help. Offer guidance. Maybe try to be a positive force on this occasion? 

Or you could just sit there behind your keyboard being a smug tw*t while sneering down at mostly young lads who, like most football fans throughout the country and indeed the world, are treated like absolute shite by police. 

No one is saying they're perfect, but the truth is I can go out on a Saturday night in Glasgow, get into an altercation, chin someone (or more likely nowadays, they chin me) and maybe get a knock at my door from the cops a few days later. Well deserved of course, but I doubt very much that they'll be forcing in my door in the wee hours of the morning as if I'm Pablo f*cking Escobar. 

That only happens to football fans. There's this weird situation where you can get into a scrap in a pub and face a certain level of policing, but if you happen to be within a certain radius of a football ground and look and dress a certain way and do the same thing you're treated far worse. 

But you already know that. Most football fans with a set of working eyeballs do. 

So yeah, these lads aren't angels. And I daresay some of them probably deserved to have the book thrown at them for their actions, but I would hope we can all see that the reactions of the police is simply not appropriate for the alleged crime. There's been far too many instances up and down the country where the cops have been caught acting out of line with football fans for anyone to palm fans complaints off as "well, they're young and daft so f*ck them, they deserve it."

And you can piss off with your "perhaps previous dealings?????" shite as well. 

2 hours ago, Big Stall said:

Like others, i have no involvement with the lads or knowledge on what has been going on. I would say however, to the normal observer, the thought of the police conducting "dawn raids" with no evidence does seem a bit far fetched.

I stand to be corrected of course & while there are no doubt a small number of police officers with jumped up attitudes, generally you dont get hit with a full police operation unless you have been up to something.

To put Robbos boys post in a bit more polite tone, enjoy the support the Motherwell fans have been giving the bois throughout, but dont expect that support to be automatic and unconditional if there are unsavoury or unlawful incidents.

Fair?

So what exactly warrants a dawn raid then? 

For the most part they're seemingly utilised in instances where the police have suspected and indeed collected large amounts of drugs, guns, money, been looking to capture suspected murderers and leading gangland figures. 

But apart from those instances they're also used regularly to hammer asylum seekers, and football fans, which kind of tells us all we need to know. How anyone can think that a football fan, even one who's been involved in a punch-up or a fight in a pub, is deserving of a dawn raid is mind-boggling. The same goes for asylum seekers. Unless they're believed to be really dangerous, or holding weapons etc of course.

And let's be honest, much of the "support" from those who are hammering them now has always been grudging at best. 

What I'd say is, anyone who thinks that a young lad involved in football related shenanigans, be it fighting or whatever, is deserving of a dawn raid needs to take a long, hard look at themselves. Like I said, if they're scrapping and getting into bother then aye, send the cops round to pick them up the same way they would someone who did that on a Friday night in the town. Don't treat them like they're serious criminals holding firearms or stockpiling drugs.

[Spiderpig]

16 minutes ago, David said:

If you read my post you'll see that I'm not "palming off" anything. What I'm saying is that we'd all do well to remember what we were like at that young age. Now, if anyone here was the type who doffed their cap to the good constables and have never thrown a punch in anger or in drunken silliness, fair enough. You're obviously a level above most. 

But for me, I think most of us have been there. 

And maybe it's just me, but I can also recall being a young lad and having condescending auld tits tutting and shaking their heads at me and my friends at the time. At no time ever did we take said condescending patter and holier-than-thou reprimanding and say "you know what? These moaning auld c*nts are right! We need to give our heads a shake and settle ourselves down." Basically, it's easy for some to post about how long they've been going to games, how they're so much more mature and level-headed, and how they're better then these lads who darken the reputation of our club and Scottish football by throwing punches and getting into fights.

But just as it never worked with me, and anyone else who was ever young and a bit daft, it won't work here. That kind of patter will have zero positive effect. But that's not the intention of it. The intention is to put others down, while making yourself out to be a cut above.

Which brings me to...

And there we have it. "I HAVE BEEN GOING TO FIR PARK FOR PLENTY MORE YEARS THAN YOU/THEM/OTHER FOLK!" 

Honestly mate, I don't give a f*uck how long you've been going to Fir Park. That's not an accomplishment. All that means is you've been alive longer. It means nothing. I bet I've been going to Fir Park for longer than a lot of the lads in corner of the East Stand. Because I'm older than most of them. Doesn't mean I'm a better fan than they are, or somehow have a right to question them without response or reprisal. 

And you are entitled to your opinion. No one said you're not. But I'm also entitled to mines. And my opinion is that if you have so much to say on the matter, you should be more constructive and offer your undoubted years of experience of going to Fir Park and do something to help. Offer guidance. Maybe try to be a positive force on this occasion? 

Or you could just sit there behind your keyboard being a smug tw*t while sneering down at mostly young lads who, like most football fans throughout the country and indeed the world, are treated like absolute shite by police. 

No one is saying they're perfect, but the truth is I can go out on a Saturday night in Glasgow, get into an altercation, chin someone (or more likely nowadays, they chin me) and maybe get a knock at my door from the cops a few days later. Well deserved of course, but I doubt very much that they'll be forcing in my door in the wee hours of the morning as if I'm Pablo f*cking Escobar. 

That only happens to football fans. There's this weird situation where you can get into a scrap in a pub and face a certain level of policing, but if you happen to be within a certain radius of a football ground and look and dress a certain way and do the same thing you're treated far worse. 

But you already know that. Most football fans with a set of working eyeballs do. 

So yeah, these lads aren't angels. And I daresay some of them probably deserved to have the book thrown at them for their actions, but I would hope we can all see that the reactions of the police is simply not appropriate for the alleged crime. There's been far too many instances up and down the country where the cops have been caught acting out of line with football fans for anyone to palm fans complaints off as "well, they're young and daft so f*ck them, they deserve it."

And you can piss off with your "perhaps previous dealings?????" shite as well. 

So what exactly warrants a dawn raid then? 

For the most part they're seemingly utilised in instances where the police have suspected and indeed collected large amounts of drugs, guns, money, been looking to capture suspected murderers and leading gangland figures. 

But apart from those instances they're also used regularly to hammer asylum seekers, and football fans, which kind of tells us all we need to know. How anyone can think that a football fan, even one who's been involved in a punch-up or a fight in a pub, is deserving of a dawn raid is mind-boggling. The same goes for asylum seekers. Unless they're believed to be really dangerous, or holding weapons etc of course.

And let's be honest, much of the "support" from those who are hammering them now has always been grudging at best. 

What I'd say is, anyone who thinks that a young lad involved in football related shenanigans, be it fighting or whatever, is deserving of a dawn raid needs to take a long, hard look at themselves. Like I said, if they're scrapping and getting into bother then aye, send the cops round to pick them up the same way they would someone who did that on a Friday night in the town. Don't treat them like they're serious criminals holding firearms or stockpiling drugs.

Allright now you've got off yor chest,  I know feck all about alleged police actions, Dawn raids etc but I  assume the police have genuine reasons / evidence to warrant such actions and behaviour, does anyone seriously think they just do stuff like that as they are bored?

If any members  the block E fans are up to any criminality then they should be prepared to accept the consequences,as I have said before it's a very fine line between enthusiastic support for your team and taking it too far, and from the various forum members reporting what they have seen it does seem that on occasions the support has gone too far, much has been said about self policing which is a great idea, but only if it works and is seen to be working but if not the the various authorities need to get involved.

I'm sure the vast majority of Well fans support the enthusiasm and effort the block E guys put in to enhance the Fir park experience, so it would be a shame if a minority within them are determined to take it too far and cause issues but if they are action in whatever form it takes may be required

[Onthefringes]

7 minutes ago, Robbos boy said:

Seems I've hut a nerve with the Bold David, who quotes keyboard warrior pish, then posts a version of war and peace. For someone who stated he had no knowledge of the bois etc, you did find it necessary to start the topic?????. As for you going of in one as regards previous dealings with the Police, its clearly obvious from your reply that you have had and perhaps your opinion is blighted. Personally I also don't give a flying F---K about your opinion, all I think is if the Bois don't settle down and stop the nonsense, especially the throwing of Pyros, then someone will get a major injury soon, either a fan or god help us a player or steward etc. To finish, calm down, calm down, I take it it wasn't you who torched his hand throwing a pyro at Kirkcaldy. There needs to be a solution, but when the group majority think that one individual is the problem and not them, then sorry can't see one. 

Hysteria. At least keep your point of view factual?

You are correct, there needs to be a solution - assuming the majority think that one individual is the problem and not them isn’t the case no matter how many times you & others tell yourselves.

[David]

32 minutes ago, Robbos boy said:

Seems I've hut a nerve with the Bold David, who quotes keyboard warrior pish, then posts a version of war and peace. For someone who stated he had no knowledge of the bois etc, you did find it necessary to start the topic?????. As for you going of in one as regards previous dealings with the Police, its clearly obvious from your reply that you have had and perhaps your opinion is blighted. Personally I also don't give a flying F---K about your opinion, all I think is if the Bois don't settle down and stop the nonsense, especially the throwing of Pyros, then someone will get a major injury soon, either a fan or god help us a player or steward etc. To finish, calm down, calm down, I take it it wasn't you who torched his hand throwing a pyro at Kirkcaldy. There needs to be a solution, but when the group majority think that one individual is the problem and not them, then sorry can't see one. 

You've not hit a nerve at all. I'm simply posting my opinion (I'd think that almost 40 years of attending games at Fir Park will allow me that going by your criteria?) that people like you are counter-productive rather than a positive in situations like this. 

If "all you thought" was what you initially posted then we wouldn't be engaged in this discussion. You didn't just say they needed to settle down and stop the nonsense (others have said that in this thread and I don't disagree with that viewpoint necessarily), you steamed in like you usually do calling them idiots and basically being a smug prick about their protest etc. Then proceeded to give it the big "i've been going to Fir Park for plenty more years than X,Y, & Z" and if it makes you a better supporter. 

It doesn't.

15 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Allright now you've got off yor chest,  I know feck all about alleged police actions, Dawn raids etc but I  assume the police have genuine reasons / evidence to warrant such actions and behaviour, does anyone seriously think they just do stuff like that as they are bored?

If any members  the block E fans are up to any criminality then they should be prepared to accept the consequences,as I have said before it's a very fine line between enthusiastic support for your team and taking it too far, and from the various forum members reporting what they have seen it does seem that on occasions the support has gone too far, much has been said about self policing which is a great idea, but only if it works and is seen to be working but if not the the various authorities need to get involved.

I'm sure the vast majority of Well fans support the enthusiasm and effort the block E guys put in to enhance the Fir park experience, so it would be a shame if a minority within them are determined to take it too far and cause issues but if they are action in whatever form it takes may be required

Again, why do you assume the police have genuine reasons for using such heavy-handed tactics against football fans as dawn raids? We're not talking about a force that has a stellar reputation for being fair and reputable.

Like I said, those kinds of dawn raid policing actions are normally reserved for incidents involving firearms, drugs, large sums of illicit money and gangland figures. The only exception to that is football fans and asylum seekers. 

Let me ask this. Do you personally think that someone who has been involved in a fight at the football, or who has taken a flare into a stadium should be subjected to the same policing tactics usually reserved for targeting individuals suspected of stockpiling firearms and large quantities of drugs?

[Spiderpig]

1 minute ago, David said:

You've not hit a nerve at all. I'm simply posting my opinion (I'd think that almost 40 years of attending games at Fir Park will allow me that going by your criteria?) that people like you are counter-productive rather than a positive in situations like this. 

If "all you thought" was what you initially posted then we wouldn't be engaged in this discussion. You didn't just say they needed to settle down and stop the nonsense (others have said that in this thread and I don't disagree with that viewpoint necessarily), you steamed in like you usually do calling them idiots and basically being a smug prick about their protest etc. Then proceeded to give it the big "i've been going to Fir Park for plenty more years than X,Y, & Z" and if it makes you a better supporter. 

It doesn't.

Again, why do you assume the police have genuine reasons for using such heavy-handed tactics against football fans as dawn raids? We're not talking about a force that has a stellar reputation for being fair and reputable.

Like I said, those kinds of dawn raid policing actions are normally reserved for incidents involving firearms, drugs, large sums of illicit money and gangland figures. The only exception to that is football fans and asylum seekers. 

Let me ask this. Do you personally think that someone who has been involved in a fight at the football, or who has taken a flare into a stadium should be subjected to the same policing tactics usually reserved for targeting individuals suspected of stockpiling firearms and large quantities of drugs?

Never heard as much shite in all my life, you really do seem to have issues with the police. For me people are assumed to be innocent until proved guilty, and as for police tactics that's for them to decide that's what the general public expect when we get them to keep us safe. If any criminality has taken place then those responsible deserve all they get, so are we to assume that all the Bois are wee angels and innocent and victims of your perceived police incompetence, bias or whatever conspiracy you subscribe to? Or do you agree that the few responsible should be taken to account for any alleged incidents, as I am sure the majority would agree with.

[Big Stall]

36 minutes ago, David said:

 

Again, why do you assume the police have genuine reasons for using such heavy-handed tactics against football fans as dawn raids? We're not talking about a force that has a stellar reputation for being fair and reputable.

 

We assume it, because most of us who are casual observers 'assume' that the police are in general there to serve and enforce the law.

If you or anyone else has evidence to suggest something different then by all means, let us and the media know about it.

Assuming (again) that dawn raids have been happening, why do the bois have a beef with the club? Surely they should be protesting outside the police station? Unless of course we sent Butcher and Bevis down to kick someones door in

[grizzlyg]

All getting heated , time for a grizzly joke?.....ok....I understand..lol

[Onthefringes]

33 minutes ago, Big Stall said:

We assume it, because most of us who are casual observers 'assume' that the police are in general there to serve and enforce the law.

If you or anyone else has evidence to suggest something different then by all means, let us and the media know about it.

Assuming (again) that dawn raids have been happening, why do the bois have a beef with the club? Surely they should be protesting outside the police station? Unless of course we sent Butcher and Bevis down to kick someones door in

How parochial.

Any ‘beef’ is due an employee offering information on numerous occasions that has lead to zero convictions whilst innocent parties (as ruled by the judiciary) have been subject to dawn raids of late amongst other unusual practise.

It’s not just that section of our support having issue, plenty with no links have registered complaint too.

[Big Stall]

26 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

How parochial.

Any ‘beef’ is due an employee offering information on numerous occasions that has lead to zero convictions whilst innocent parties (as ruled by the judiciary) have been subject to dawn raids of late amongst other unusual practise.

It’s not just that section of our support having issue, plenty with no links have registered complaint too.

Parochial in as far as i have zero knowledge of what has went on, then thats correct.

Are you suggesting the police has asked the club for information and we have handed it over?

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, Big Stall said:

Parochial in as far as i have zero knowledge of what has went on, then thats correct.

Are you suggesting the police has asked the club for information and we have handed it over?

You’re on the right track…

[dennyc]

Don't know the ins and outs of the dawn raids mentioned but if they were later found to be unjust and vindictive then that is a disgrace that needs to be highlighted. If there is also an issue with one particular individual within Fir Park then that also should be addressed. As with with any dispute that will likely only be resolved through discussion and common sense being applied by all parties. So I simply ask if any moves have been made to try and arrange a meeting to move things forward? If an approach has been made and the Club have declined such a meet, then that too is unacceptable. That said, any compromise cannot include the Club being seen to condone criminal acts. 

As for fan behaviour. I remember not that long ago we were all up in arms when Celtic fans trashed Fir Park. The targets of our outrage included Stewards and Police for not taking immediate action and Officials of our Club who appeared reluctant to pursue matters with the football authorities and Celtic Football Club.

Is it not a bit hypocritical therefore to condemn Police, stewards and our own employees when action is taken against our own fans for similar anti social behaviour. Be it within football grounds or surrounding areas during match day. Behaviour which, despite repeated denials from a few on here, has been witnessed and commented upon by many fans who attend away games.

As for Motherwell passing information to the Authorities. Why shouldn't that be acceptable if the actions of some are damaging the standing of the Club and more seriously putting other fans at risk? Particularly if the Football Authorities are taking an interest. Surely our Board have a duty to act in the interest of the Club.  Again liking it to the Celtic incident, there were plenty of folk asking for fans to be identified via CCTV and/or Celtic so that police action could be taken. And as someone posted earlier...if you break the Law don't be surprised if bad things happen.

And no David, I'm not a level above most. I doubt whether there is anybody on this forum who has not found themselves in trouble one way or another. Certainly not me. But I don't recall threatening fellow Motherwell fans (fact) or trashing pubs(allegedly as I did not witness that in person). And pyrotechnics were not really a thing at football when I was a youngster. But that does not mean fans should turn a blind eye to what is happening. And commenting on what they or I see is not an attempt to "put others down and appear a cut above". It is about highlighting disgusting, dangerous behaviour by a few that will drive fans away from games and ultimately damage our Club.

 

 

 

[MJC]

The incident mentioned in the above post where Celtic fans/The Green Brigade/Celtic fans led by the Green Brigade trashed the South Stand at Fir Park happened in December 2013 and rightly had the majority of the Motherwell support up in arms at both it happening and the lack of action taken against the perpetrators.

Then, less than two years later in October 2015, the ‘Well Bois’ participated in a joint protest with the Green Brigade/Celtic support over supposed unfair treatment of football fans. In other words they stood shoulder to shoulder with the same group who had caused thousands of pounds worth of damage to Fir Park with little to no comeback on it. I don’t speak for anybody else but in my eyes that group lost most if not all credibility they had when complaining about harsh treatment by police and stewards there and then. And that is before you take into account some of the behaviours they have displayed on more than one occasion since then.

If they don’t want to be seen as ‘Green Brigade wannabes’ then don’t stand along side them greetin about the police when they attract attention for their bad behaviour and stick two fingers up to the club they support and the rest of your fellow fans in the process. And don’t release big chest-puffed-out statements about boycotts full of poor grammar and spelling and then deliver a half arsed attempt at a boycott like they did on Saturday.

Like I said in my first reply on this subject, everything about this episode is very Green Brigade.

[Kmcalpin]

A lot of points being made here. I've no direct knowledge of what has happened and am unclear as to whether the Police approached the club for information or whether a club representative offered it to them. In any event  any information handed over should be correct and accurate. 

[grizzlyg]

2 hours ago, Robbos boy said:

Dear David, I'm not the only one who thought that their attempt to protest was hilarious, but don't see you digging them up. As for calling them idiots (your words) in this instance, YES they are, unless you think that lobbing flares into your own support our over the heads of ball boys, without a second thought for the outcome, is okay. As for being a prick again your words, come on you have posted more pish on this subject than anyone, basically supporting them. The problem will not get sorted until the group understand that they may be the problem and not the individual, but as you are the almighty, again you will probably no better. If you look at my post in the Raith cup game, people didn't take it seriously, but the flares were thrown and the pitch scorched, meaning a bill sent to the club, Do you condone that. These so called Bois, are trying to be something they'll never be and need to realise that sometimes they bring the club into disrepute with their actions. There is no doubt that when they do, then Mr Park has an obligation to assist Police with their identity, if they are arrested, no matter at what time, the matter is reported to the courts, if they decide no action, doesn't mean, the raids and identifying process was wrong. So stick that t in yir Smug pipe and blow it up yir arse. By the way, an Ace beats a king, going for over 60 years and these youngsters would get a smacking of the older groups, who didn't burn parks, through objects and complain. They did the time, cause they done the crime. This is not a Motherwell Fc problem, it's a football problem and the quicker the authorities and stewards find these items before they get into the ground the better, but I won't hold my breath on that happening due to the underhanded ways of the youth of today. So stop bleating and see sense, flares and football don't go together (unless it was the 70,s before Grizzly comes in with a joke) 

The temptation was there......lol

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, dennyc said:

Don't know the ins and outs of the dawn raids mentioned but if they were later found to be unjust and vindictive then that is a disgrace that needs to be highlighted. If there is also an issue with one particular individual within Fir Park then that also should be addressed. As with with any dispute that will likely only be resolved through discussion and common sense being applied by all parties. So I simply ask if any moves have been made to try and arrange a meeting to move things forward? If an approach has been made and the Club have declined such a meet, then that too is unacceptable. That said, any compromise cannot include the Club being seen to condone criminal acts. 

As for fan behaviour. I remember not that long ago we were all up in arms when Celtic fans trashed Fir Park. The targets of our outrage included Stewards and Police for not taking immediate action and Officials of our Club who appeared reluctant to pursue matters with the football authorities and Celtic Football Club.

Is it not a bit hypocritical therefore to condemn Police, stewards and our own employees when action is taken against our own fans for similar anti social behaviour. Be it within football grounds or surrounding areas during match day. Behaviour which, despite repeated denials from a few on here, has been witnessed and commented upon by many fans who attend away games.

As for Motherwell passing information to the Authorities. Why shouldn't that be acceptable if the actions of some are damaging the standing of the Club and more seriously putting other fans at risk? Particularly if the Football Authorities are taking an interest. Surely our Board have a duty to act in the interest of the Club.  Again liking it to the Celtic incident, there were plenty of folk asking for fans to be identified via CCTV and/or Celtic so that police action could be taken. And as someone posted earlier...if you break the Law don't be surprised if bad things happen.

And no David, I'm not a level above most. I doubt whether there is anybody on this forum who has not found themselves in trouble one way or another. Certainly not me. But I don't recall threatening fellow Motherwell fans (fact) or trashing pubs(allegedly as I did not witness that in person). And pyrotechnics were not really a thing at football when I was a youngster. But that does not mean fans should turn a blind eye to what is happening. And commenting on what they or I see is not an attempt to "put others down and appear a cut above". It is about highlighting disgusting, dangerous behaviour by a few that will drive fans away from games and ultimately damage our Club.

Your opening gambit is where they are.

Discussion is planned I hear, those wishing to chair are basing any talks on ‘social media’ output and not on behaviours including that of employee(s) so it’s felt by many the tone that will likely be taken. Think the requests by others to be represented who have no links to any group is pretty telling.

Those who are in support of the groups and action being taken aren’t disagreeing that groups should be complying with rules, the constant reference to release of pyro is for another debate, as I’ve mentioned issues are not inextricably linked.

Fairly balanced reply although off on a tangent for me.
 

Not in reply to yourself, anybody saying ‘lobbing flares into your own support’ give off heavy Pinocchio vibes.

[Onthefringes]

55 minutes ago, MJC said:

The incident mentioned in the above post where Celtic fans/The Green Brigade/Celtic fans led by the Green Brigade trashed the South Stand at Fir Park happened in December 2013 and rightly had the majority of the Motherwell support up in arms at both it happening and the lack of action taken against the perpetrators.

Then, less than two years later in October 2015, the ‘Well Bois’ participated in a joint protest with the Green Brigade/Celtic support over supposed unfair treatment of football fans. In other words they stood shoulder to shoulder with the same group who had caused thousands of pounds worth of damage to Fir Park with little to no comeback on it. I don’t speak for anybody else but in my eyes that group lost most if not all credibility they had when complaining about harsh treatment by police and stewards there and then. And that is before you take into account some of the behaviours they have displayed on more than one occasion since then.

If they don’t want to be seen as ‘Green Brigade wannabes’ then don’t stand along side them greetin about the police when they attract attention for their bad behaviour and stick two fingers up to the club they support and the rest of your fellow fans in the process. And don’t release big chest-puffed-out statements about boycotts full of poor grammar and spelling and then deliver a half arsed attempt at a boycott like they did on Saturday.

Like I said in my first reply on this subject, everything about this episode is very Green Brigade.

You’re peddling that again…

We get you’re not in favour. And for your information they were pilloried for the action in plenty of circles. You’ll see it’s never happened again even when similar situations arose.

[supermarv]

The Bois bring a very good atmosphere to matches 9/10 and without them it can be very dull and we are much better with them. The club can’t pick and choose when they support them, “how great is our group” as well as having a member of staff turn against them. 
 

They don’t help themselves though with throwing objects on the pitch or other objects at players and they individuals should be dealt with in the correct manner.

I don’t agree with rejecting tifos for our own club and letting opposition have one, or just giving names to the police without evidence. Few years back a tifo was agreed then the day before matchday I think they were told it couldn’t be used. With regards to things like flags so objects etc can’t be snuck in through them should be brought in before match day and left or set up. 
 

Personally it’s very tit for tat between the group and the officer, if the group could stop their “fanny” behaviour and the officer stop acting a jobsworth all could be well. Best situation is a sit down between members of the group and a few club employees to come to an agreement best for the club.

[santheman]

3 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Your opening gambit is where they are.

Discussion is planned I hear, those wishing to chair are basing any talks on ‘social media’ output and not on behaviours including that of employee(s) so it’s felt by many the tone that will likely be taken. Think the requests by others to be represented who have no links to any group is pretty telling.

Those who are in support of the groups and action being taken aren’t disagreeing that groups should be complying with rules, the constant reference to release of pyro is for another debate, as I’ve mentioned issues are not inextricably linked.

Fairly balanced reply although off on a tangent for me.
 

Not in reply to yourself, anybody saying ‘lobbing flares into your own support’ give off heavy Pinocchio vibes.

Well they did at Kircaldy however I'll quantify that by giving the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional as I think it was aimed at the rows of empty seats at the front of the stand and their aim was off, but nevertheless whoever threw it came within a couple of inches of severely injuring one of our wheelchair users.

Thankfully there have been no more flares that I'm aware of since then so hopefully lessons have been learned.

[MJC]

12 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

You’re peddling that again…

We get you’re not in favour. And for your information they were pilloried for the action in plenty of circles. You’ll see it’s never happened again even when similar situations arose.

If by “they were pilloried for the action in plenty of circles” you are referring to the Well Bois holding a joint protest with the Green Brigade then yes I know they were, and rightly so. And “it’s never happened again” then good! Rightly so. Because they were shown by the unwillingness of the wider support to join in with or support them on that that they were in the wrong for it and weren’t supported by the majority of our fanbase.

And yes, I’m “peddling that again” and I will keep doing so as long as that group keep acting like the Green Brigade with their behaviours, statements and victim mentalities. 
 

If you fly with the crows and all that…

[Onthefringes]

29 minutes ago, santheman said:

Well they did at Kircaldy however I'll quantify that by giving the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional as I think it was aimed at the rows of empty seats at the front of the stand and their aim was off, but nevertheless whoever threw it came within a couple of inches of severely injuring one of our wheelchair users.

Thankfully there have been no more flares that I'm aware of since then so hopefully lessons have been learned.

Fair comment.