smeddum07 Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 Sorry if this has been posted somewhere else that I couldn’t see. Not sure how many are aware of the spfl plans for a new conference league. Here is a news article regarding it https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/conference-league-set-scottish-football-29821398.amp. The main point is they are starting a new league between league 2 and lowland/highland league that will have six b teams in it. These will not be allowed to be promoted or relegated making this league deadly dull and probably just a Trojan horse for b teams come up the league. This also essentially relegates 100s of teams below them. From a Motherwell perspective I don’t see any benefits as we aren’t even entering a B team. So either this fails to develop players and makes lower league football worse or it does help develop players thus making our competition stronger. However since the old firm will require larger squads will probably reduce the talent pool we have to pick from. I have emailed the club as I believe there is a vote coming up and was concerned well society members haven’t had a say on this. Morton for example are allowing members to decide their vote. The response I received was disappointing saying they had not had detailed proposals yet from the spfl so had not formed a view. Sounds like we won’t be getting a view. Thanks for reading a long thread and you may not be as interested or excised as me however if you are might be worth emailing the club to show a strength of feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 100% against this. Totally flies in the face of the sporting integrity of the pyramid system and intereferes with the ability of non league teams to he promoted on merit. It only benefits the big 2 who cant or wont develop players through their own first teams. Hearts and Aberdeen will undoubtedly piggy back onto it. B teams should be in the reserve league, pure and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 Agree with all that has been said. No way should Motherwell support a proposal that has the potential to damage us financially and competitively. The Board have an obligation to act in the best interests of the Club and should not be bullied into backing a proposal that will undoubtedly strengthen four Clubs and weaken everybody else. Sadly I suspect it is a fait accompli and also that fans will have no say in what happens. This structure has been planned ever since Rangers, Celtic and then Hearts were allowed to enter B sides in the Lowland League. The financial gap that limits competition is about to get even wider. And more broadly, so much for Project Brave spreading talent across a much larger range of Clubs. I guess that ambition of establishing a more competitive balance has been abandoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 The only benefit I can see is for the team relegated from League 2 as they are only competing with 5 other teams to go back up. Highland/Lowland league teams need to win an additional stage to reach the SPFL so why would they vote for it? is there any other perceived benefit for anyone outside the B teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, ropy said: The only benefit I can see is for the team relegated from League 2 as they are only competing with 5 other teams to go back up. Highland/Lowland league teams need to win an additional stage to reach the SPFL so why would they vote for it? is there any other perceived benefit for anyone outside the B teams? Don't think the Highland and Lower League get to vote. If they did the proposal would never pass. SPFL Clubs only. Unless anybody can confirm otherwise. Division Two Clubs (possibly some Division One as well) will be tempted to vote for the proposal to put a safety net between themselves and Highland/Lower League oblivion. Plus they will get to play the big four at home at least twice a season in the Conference, which might provide a nice wee financial boost after relegation. Also in the small print the Conference are allowed to negotiate commercial deals separate from SPFL. Again a sop to Rangers and Celtic who I bet will broadcast the games to their stay at home fans as part of an increased monthly fee. And BBC Scotland will jump on board to broadcast anything Rangers v Celtic. So get prepared for TV coverage of Rangers and Celtic B teams. Essentially it is about bribing enough lower league clubs to support the proposal, thus outvoting the Premiership and Championship Clubs that will be weakened and so vote No. Whatever happens, it will be revealing to discover how our Board decide to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 Having Premiership youth players sitting on buses to play Highland league teams is the height of idiocy. Given that neither Rangers nor Celtic managed to win the Lowland league this season, they don't have any players on the verge of the first team who have played a lot in the lowland league and aren't putting many players in the Scotland u21 squad this seems like a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 Interesting stat from one of the many lower league organisations that are opposing the plans. Nice to see us at the top end of this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 1 hour ago, steelboy said: Having Premiership youth players sitting on buses to play Highland league teams is the height of idiocy. Given that neither Rangers nor Celtic managed to win the Lowland league this season, they don't have any players on the verge of the first team who have played a lot in the lowland league and aren't putting many players in the Scotland u21 squad this seems like a waste of time. Oh I don't think it is about being overly competitive in the Conference for any of the chosen few. It is about giving them somewhere to play a number of players that would be sitting on their arses if nothing else was arranged before the Lowland League deal runs out. And don't forget there already is a Reserve league that certain Clubs declined to take part in. And it will not just be Youth players sitting on that bus. When details are revealed I doubt there will be any restriction on who the B Sides can field. Eg. 5 payers must be under 21. Will also be interesting to see if players can switch back and forward between B and Premiership squads outside of the transfer windows. The whole set up is open to abuse if restrictions are not put in place. Also, given the authority given for Conference League to generate commercial deals outwith any SPFL arrangements, it opens up lots of new opportunities for the rich to get richer and so widen that financial gap. BBC will be drooling at the possibility of televising certain B team games. Last few weeks it has been almost impossible to escape Rangers Celtic coverage. Premiership, Scottish Cup. Girlies, Youths. Championship clubs should be wary of a reduction in their coverage given other options that would open up elsewhere. " Shall we show Thistle v Morton or Rangers B v Aberdeen B?" kind of thing. Lots of questions our Board should be seeking clarification on before voting. And if any aspect threatens our own situation competitively or financially then we must oppose the plan. But I suspect we won't. Only enjoyable aspect would be the possibility of Hearts being relegated to the extent that they ended up playing their B side in the Conference. Or any sort of Rangers like demotion for any of the four that would have the same effect. Sadly, finances will ensure otherwise. Given we were asked our views about the Rangers demotion (or not) it will be interesting to discover if our fan owned Club seeks our views before coming to a decision. Hopefully Morton have shown the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 Aye it does seem to be a way to change the eligibility rules without any of the Lowland or Highland League clubs getting a say. If they try that then the clubs should refuse to play them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 The Well Society is inviting comments on this: Board meeting We've had a few of you get in touch about season ticket pricing, and on the proposed changes to the league structure. If you have any questions, comments or queries about these or other matters you wish included in Monday's Well Society board meeting please email them to us at: well.society@motherwellfc.co.uk. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeddum07 Posted May 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 Thanks for the replies. I have read somewhere that all member clubs will get a vote which will include lower league sides but might not be true. I have emailed the link from the well society email so hopefully atleast get an answer. I honestly don’t understand why lower league teams would want it. Brechin seems reinvigorate by dropping down the leagues. The highland league is an amazing league I know less about the lowland but if Elgin got relegated fans would still turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephmc1886 Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 Fitba is getting less and less appealing by the week, can see this being the last straw for a large number of folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 25 minutes ago, smeddum07 said: Thanks for the replies. I have read somewhere that all member clubs will get a vote which will include lower league sides but might not be true. I have emailed the link from the well society email so hopefully atleast get an answer. I honestly don’t understand why lower league teams would want it. Brechin seems reinvigorate by dropping down the leagues. The highland league is an amazing league I know less about the lowland but if Elgin got relegated fans would still turn up. I don't think Highland (SHFL) and Lowland (SLFL) League Clubs are Members of the SPFL But stand to be corrected. They are members of the SFA so can take part in the Scottish Cup which is managed by that body. But do not participate in the SPFL run League Cup. I read weeks ago that Highland and Lowland Clubs had objected to not being consulted or having a vote in a process that would lead to their progression to League Two being more challenging. Again, I stand to be corrected. However, if they were allowed to vote the proposal would almost certainly fail given their objections. The powers that be want to appease the big City Clubs, so that is likely what will happen unless enough Clubs like Motherwell stand together and vote it down. Don't hold your breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 It's on the agenda for the next Board meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 1 hour ago, dennyc said: I don't think Highland (SHFL) and Lowland (SLFL) League Clubs are Members of the SPFL But stand to be corrected. They are members of the SFA so can take part in the Scottish Cup which is managed by that body. But do not participate in the SPFL run League Cup. I read weeks ago that Highland and Lowland Clubs had objected to not being consulted or having a vote in a process that would lead to their progression to League Two being more challenging. Again, I stand to be corrected. However, if they were allowed to vote the proposal would almost certainly fail given their objections. The powers that be want to appease the big City Clubs, so that is likely what will happen unless enough Clubs like Motherwell stand together and vote it down. Don't hold your breath. If it comes to a vote Clubs self interest and not the benefit of the game in Scotland as a whole will be the only guiding factor for their vote. The ugly sisters will vote with each other as they have always done, and the concerns of the other clubs will be ignored as usual, Motherwell, St Mirren, Montrose etc etc can complain all they like but nothing will change. The governance of the game in Scotland is not fit for purpose, its rotten to the core with too much influence held by two Clubs so unless that changes first, nothing else will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted May 12, 2023 Report Share Posted May 12, 2023 59 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: If it comes to a vote Clubs self interest and not the benefit of the game in Scotland as a whole will be the only guiding factor for their vote. The ugly sisters will vote with each other as they have always done, and the concerns of the other clubs will be ignored as usual, Motherwell, St Mirren, Montrose etc etc can complain all they like but nothing will change. The governance of the game in Scotland is not fit for purpose, its rotten to the core with too much influence held by two Clubs so unless that changes first, nothing else will. Agree 100% with what you say. However I understand the proposal requires 51% agreement for it to pass, based on one Club one Vote. So it is unlike Premiership votes where two Clubs can join together and block change. So Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen require the support of another 18 Clubs to force the proposal through (if my arithmetic is correct). Unless the Spfl somehow manage to change the rules which I would not put past them. So this is one instance where Clubs have the chance to stand up and be counted. Whether they will is open to question. If the disadvantaged teams in the Premiership and Championship stick together then the change will require 18 of the Clubs in the two lowest two Divisions to vote Yes. Sadly, there is a chance that could be achieved if the financial incentives (bribery) and lessening chance of relegation (self interest) hold sway. I suspect phone calls are already being made and favours called in. Let's see how the vote works out and which way Motherwell go. Meantime, fans should let the Club know their views, whether for or against 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretzel Posted May 13, 2023 Report Share Posted May 13, 2023 It's went from the Old Firm B squads trying to riggle in the Lowland League, to them only doing a solitary season then to them being mainstays and now a new league created around them and a few others. I know the young boys have performed well in the competition but that annoys me too that B sides are in the challenge cup. I feel Scottish football has become less and less appealing over the last decade. I hope this gets voted down but I wouldn't hold my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted May 13, 2023 Report Share Posted May 13, 2023 I suspect the SPFL will try to railroad this proposl through, despite only being a voice for the membership. I'm totally against this and have contacted the Society. Its a trojan horse to allow the gruesome twosome entry to the senior leagues, and eventually the Championship. There will of course be "sweeteners" to get the lower league clubs onside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted May 13, 2023 Report Share Posted May 13, 2023 39 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: I suspect the SPFL will try to railroad this proposl through, despite only being a voice for the membership. I'm totally against this and have contacted the Society. Its a trojan horse to allow the gruesome twosome entry to the senior leagues, and eventually the Championship. There will of course be "sweeteners" to get the lower league clubs onside. Its also important to think about the long game. There is still the potential for expansion to European Leagues which the big 2 will have their eye on. If they have B teams in place it leaves them in a stronger position to bugger off in pursuit of the big money whilst retaining a presence in their national league. I know the fans managed to beat off the European Super League idea last time around, but it would be naive to think that those looking to broker it have gone away. Clearly Rangers and Celtic wouldnt be invited to the top table initially, but theyve always had eyes on opportunities to get out of Scottish football...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The African Posted May 13, 2023 Report Share Posted May 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: Its also important to think about the long game. There is still the potential for expansion to European Leagues which the big 2 will have their eye on. If they have B teams in place it leaves them in a stronger position to bugger off in pursuit of the big money whilst retaining a presence in their national league. I know the fans managed to beat off the European Super League idea last time around, but it would be naive to think that those looking to broker it have gone away. Clearly Rangers and Celtic wouldnt be invited to the top table initially, but theyve always had eyes on opportunities to get out of Scottish football...... Indeed. If the object of the exercise was simply to provide a better pathway for local talent then neither of the gruesome twosome would really be interested. They never have been in the past. Their agenda is to continue the precedent of their B teams existing within the structure of the Scottish league system so that they have an insurance policy once the opportunity arises for them to bugger off to whatever future international football circus will take them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throughthelaces Posted May 13, 2023 Report Share Posted May 13, 2023 No chance should this happen. I think league reconstruction would be good for the game but not this version still believe an 18 team league at the top 20 team second and 3rd and regionalise from there. By doing that more teams will have more dead rubber games which can be used to field young players letting them get first team minutes they aren’t getting at the moment. b Teams shouldn’t be a thing I dislike lower leagues of European football for this as well. My way of putting a stop to it is if rangers Celtic hearts and whoever else want it then they have to use their grounds to host the teams of these other clubs and provide them the same experience as the premiership clubs I think then we’ll see how important these teams really deem this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 13, 2023 Report Share Posted May 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: I suspect the SPFL will try to railroad this proposl through, despite only being a voice for the membership. I'm totally against this and have contacted the Society. It’s a trojan horse to allow the gruesome twosome entry to the senior leagues, and eventually the Championship. There will of course be "sweeteners" to get the lower league clubs onside. I contacted the WS to say pretty much the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeddum07 Posted May 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2023 Big news as Aberdeen have rejected the offer to play in the conference league and will be voting against it. Makes less money in the league will be interesting if Hearts and Hibs also reject it. Not sure it’s as cut and dried as I previously thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephmc1886 Posted May 15, 2023 Report Share Posted May 15, 2023 https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/287776-national-conference-league/#comments It's a lot of reading but very interesting discussion about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coatsy Posted May 15, 2023 Report Share Posted May 15, 2023 Aberdeen have rejected an approach to put a B team i the conference league as they will need 55 players and cost them a further £400k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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